Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you!

Oh, Lord. You're so BIG. So awfully huge. We're all really impressed down here, I can tell you! -- "The Meaning of Life" - Monty Python

Peace,
dave

Do any of you guys listen to Podcasts? Specifically, I was wondering if you have ever checked out "Skeptics Guide to the Universe"? Home - The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe

They take great care not to bash religion, but the talk about current events dealing with things that are believed in the "culture", all cultures, with either no evidence or contradictory evidence. It is led by a neurologist with 5 other people from other walks of life.

They also explain and discuss scientific-theory, rational-thought and logic. They are the highlight of my week for entertainment.

It sounds like there would be a lot of fans here.

Barry

St. Gasoline covered this years ago.



As far as I'm concerned, (to provide a slick, classic antithesis): absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

That's no more to the point than a drunken man is happier than a sober man. Alcohol and drugs is an easier choice as well. Does that make it the right one?

I agree about the lack of evidence being lack of reason to believe.

The sticking-point for many I think is that really no one should state that atheists say there is no god, just no reasonable-evidence to accept that there is one.
This is called a "straw-man" argument. Nobody is really, or should be saying that they know god does not exist. When stated that way by believers, it makes us sound arrogant, they get to tear the "straw-man down". The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.

If we thought this way in the rest of our lives, you would not have a computer sitting in front of you right now, or cars, planes, etc.


Hey Dave, there is a dragon living in your garage, go check.

What do you mean you can't see it, he is there, I promise.

Why would Dave believe me, but he cannot absolutely prove it is not there. The point is, he doesn't need to, I do. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Should Dave not park the "Dagiun-Mobile" in the Garage because I might be right? (BTW, I am convinced he would park it in his underground liar, like Batman).

I do not claim to "know" anything, in an absolute sense. I accept the best knowledge available at the time. This knowledge can become outdated and upgraded, just the same way we learn about building and improving laser-pointers here. Wouldn't it be strange if someone believed the PS-3 Diode was the only "true" BR-diode?

I just want to say:
1) Dark_Horse, I agree with basically everything you have said. Very well put.
2) Your avatar is awesome. Only trouble is that I was distracted from reading your posts several times because I found myself waiting for the lightning to come and the eye to turn red

Seb

I find it slightly ironic that the majority of the members that have studied the bible on LPf are non believers-Dave, Niko, and others that don't post on this thread any more.

I love this thread. The religious members just make excuses and leave when they are pwned by Dave and Niko

Sorry. That isn't even close to the same thing. Happy and stoned or inebriated are not related.

In my experience most people who over drink to get drunk or do drugs to get high are not happy at all


Peace,
dave

What is Atheism?
Atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.

The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "without gods", which was derogatorily applied to anyone thought to not believe in the accepted gods, or to believe in false gods, no gods, or doctrines that stood in conflict with established religions. With the spread of freethought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope. The first individuals to identify themselves as "atheist" appeared in the 18th century. Today, about 2.3% of the world's population describes itself as atheist, while a further 11.9% is described as nontheist. Between 64% and 65% of Japanese describe themselves as atheists, agnostics, or non-believers, and up to 48% in Russia. The percentage of such persons in European Union member states ranges as low as single digits in Italy and some other countries, and up to 85% in Sweden.

Atheists tend to lean towards skepticism regarding supernatural claims, citing a lack of empirical evidence. Common rationales include the problem of evil, the argument from inconsistent revelations, and the argument from nonbelief. Other arguments for atheism range from the philosophical to the social to the historical. Although some atheists tend toward secular philosophies such as humanism, rationalism, and naturalism, there is no one ideology or set of behaviors to which all atheists adhere.

In Western culture, atheists are frequently assumed to be exclusively irreligious or unspiritual. However, religious and spiritual belief systems such as forms of Buddhism that do not advocate belief in gods, have also been described as atheistic.



What is it to be agnostic?
Agnosticism is the view that the truth value of certain claims—especially claims about the existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claims—is unknown or unknowable. Agnosticism can be defined in various ways, and is sometimes used to indicate doubt or a skeptical approach to questions. In some senses, agnosticism is a stance about the differences between belief and knowledge, rather than about any specific claim or belief. As such, the term agnostic does not necessarily signal a particular view about religion or God, as some agnostics also identify as theists or atheists.

Thomas Henry Huxley, an English biologist, coined the word agnostic in 1860. However, earlier thinkers and written works have promoted agnostic points of view. They include Protagoras, a 5th-century BCE Greek philosopher, and a creation story in the Rigveda, an ancient Hindu religious text. Since Huxley coined the term, many other thinkers have written extensively about agnosticism, ranging from Albert Einstein to Pope Benedict XVI.




I am a Christian.....That doesn't make me an Atheist towards another Religion....It just makes me a Christian

“You are just as much of an atheist as I am, I just happen to believe in one less god than you do.

When you realize why you reject all the other gods and religions, you will realize why I reject yours.” -- Stephan Roberts

d00d..
i got drank alcohol like 2.. maybe 3 times this year.
i drink to get drunk.
thats the whole purpose isnt it?



i think its people who drink and/or do drugs to be happy.. are not happy
(IMO)

It certainly could be.

However, if it becomes a regular thing, there is some underlying problem.

Peace,
dave

Why do you write to me "God should punish the English"? I have no close connection to either one or the other. I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held -- Albert Einstein

I wondered if I was the only one.

I'm nowhere near as eloquent as they are, but I love using their views/statements against my religious friends when we discuss these matters. Always makes me smile to watch the expressions on their faces afterwards, especially when I ask them if they've ever read the entire bible.

They really should. It is an amazing read. It would make a spectacular movie. Of course it would receive an NC-17 rating

But, I suppose, children should be protected from the darker side of the human condition until at least puberty.

Peace,
dave

AND it's the best way to become an atheist

you should try reading the book of mormon..

Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb

I have. However, it doesn't explain or describe the more interesting "mysteries" of the LDS faith.

If I had to choose a religion, I think I would be a mormon. It is good to be a mormon AND MALE in today's chruch

Peace,
dave

Sorry Dave, but it would be an "X-rating".
It would be at least as bad a Caligula was. I wonder who Malcolm McDowell would play? Maybe he could play the inn keeper on the edge of Gomorra that was sent angels to protect him from the wrath that god was about to lay down on the the "twin-cities of sin".

According to the story, all of the men in town demanded that the inn-keeper send the angles out, so they could rape them. The inn-keeper instead sent his daughter out (and maybe his wife too, I can't remember), to be raped by the mob all night.

In the morning one of the daughters was near death, lying on his porch, to which the inn-keeper said something like "get yourself together bitch". IIRC, these daughters had sex with their father later too, after getting him drunk. This was the most "just-man" in the two-towns, which is why god sent angles to protect him from the destruction of the sinful-towns.

This is just one story of many horrible things in the bible, you can almost open to a page randomly to find stuff that would appall you. People ask me were I get my morals, if not from the bible. I reply, from the same place you do, from within. They pick and choose what to abide by from the text, ignoring what they do not like, otherwise they would be in prison.

Anyone murder their unruly-children at the gate of town lately? You are supposed to. Further more, since you didn't, it falls to your neighbor to kill both of you now....nice morals
!
Sorry for the lack of citations, but if you really need them, I can look them up.., in my bible. Read it, I dare you

Thanks for the props on the avatar, you can thank Tech_Junkie for the awesome job he did on my graphics!

Thank you Tech-Junkie

Peace,
dave

The dragon in Dave's garage regularly drinks from Russel's teapot. Suppose there IS an invisible dragon in his garage that does not react with our dimension in any way, shape, or form. What implications does that have for Dave? I'd say none at all. It doesn't mean Dave should talk to the dragon, it doesn't mean Dave should praise the the dragon, it doesn't mean Dave should try and get others to believe in the dragon, and it sure as sht doesn't mean Dave should kill in the name of the dragon.

Well then what good is the dragon?

Peace,
dave

The dragon-analogy is from Carl Sagan. Did anyone notice it was officially "Carl Sagan Day" last Monday (11/09/09)?
The world truly lost a great science-public ambassador early.

Check out the Carl-Sagan "rap" here, almost made me cry:
YouTube - Carl Sagan - 'A Glorious Dawn' ft Stephen Hawking (Cosmos Remixed)

I missed Carl Sagan Day. I would have worked it into my lectures. I loved the way he would say "billions and billions" without really opening his mouth.

Peace,
dave