Old 09-14-2015, 04:32 PM #5729
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
"I read the beginning premise, but I won't read the rest that explains the premise because I don't like how it begins"
Correct. His beginning argument is "the bible is true until proven otherwise" and it's going to be downhill from there. His conclusion just repeats that.

That's not how evidence works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
how do any of these these thoughts on morality have even a sliver of objectivity.
Well, bombing an abortion clinic will objectively lower the well-being of your neighbors, for example.

I'm not arguing totally objective morality exists, anyway. You are. You say it's in the bible, but it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
your conclusion here is a "non sequitur"
Please elaborate.


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Old 09-14-2015, 05:44 PM #5730
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ah, doesn't matter, religion helps fill a desire to have answers we can't have, to fulfill an innate spiritual yearning in many of us, problem is, once we latch on to the "truth", we have a hard time seeing it for anything else.

Edit: I've been studying NDE reports for years, I find more truth and meaning in them than I do any religion, here is one interesting report on you tube, the audio from an interview of a NDE experiencer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lxJTWNy0g4
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"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

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Old 09-16-2015, 06:08 PM #5731
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
and it's going to be downhill from there.
You are wrong, and will never know due to lack of effort.

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Well, bombing an abortion clinic will objectively lower the well-being of your neighbors, for example.
That's a true statement, but it is not a moral statement

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
I'm not arguing totally objective morality exists, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
There is absolutely a subjective component to my morality (and yours, more on that later), but it's not completely subjective.
You are the one claiming there is an objective component to the morality of your worldview. For that you would need to show objectively that "lowering the well being of your neighbors" is bad. Which you cannot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Please elaborate.
I will tell you what's true and try to point you in the right direction but you've demonstrated an unwillingless and lack of effort in striving toward having a meaninful discussion. I am not going to continue reciprocating effort for habitual non-effort with you.

Objective morality is in the bible, and that concusion is a "non sequitur". I'm sure you're smart enough to find the answers if you were willing to look.


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Ah, doesn't matter, religion helps fill a desire to have answers we can't have, to fulfill an innate spiritual yearning in many of us, problem is, once we latch on to the "truth", we have a hard time seeing it for anything else.
Yeah another very general statement not directly said to anyone. How very... un-meaningful.
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Old 09-16-2015, 07:13 PM #5732
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Yeah another very general statement not directly said to anyone. How very... un-meaningful.
In the eye of the beholder
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

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Old 09-16-2015, 11:53 PM #5733
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
you would need to show objectively that "lowering the well being of your neighbors" is bad.
Are you using some weird ad-hoc definition of "bad" here? Bad for what? Bad in what context?

Bad for the human race in general? Of course - it's self-explanatory.

Bad in accordance with what your god wants? I don't give two shits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Objective morality is in the bible
And what would you say to someone that interprets the morality rules differently than you do (i.e. arguably everyone)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Yeah another very general statement not directly said to anyone. How very... un-meaningful.
HEY! We agree on something
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:18 AM #5734
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Happy to make your day Cyparagon, you are a noteworthy LPF member, after all. Truth is, I had more to offer with that post than the insane arguments you guys sometimes get your panties in a bunch over in this thread. Now, I bet this last post is more to your liking, as I wrestle in the mud with you? Arguing against peoples cherished beliefs or religion is futile, you won't change any ones beliefs one iota, such a waste of time. Discuss the good points of religion, if you can find it in your heart or minds eye regarding any aspect of religion which are positive to speak up about, or are you too barren to find or acknowledge anything good? That would be a positive direction instead of having so much petty enjoyment writing about how "stupid" or illogical some peoples beliefs are as you shake your crooked stick of discontentment at them.

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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

Last edited by Alaskan; 09-17-2015 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:54 AM #5735
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

This thread is like the world! Every one has a difference of opinion. That is great but this is what has started a lot of the wars in the world in the last thousand or so years. The great crusades were supposedly started on religion or for the Kights a way to raid some one else's territory in the name of religion. It really is just some one claiming that either that god does not exist or some one saying that their god is the only one. Heck there is even a popular belief that god is not male but female.

who is to say what is the truth. What one person believes in is up to them. To refute what some one believes in really is the issue with most of the comments on this thread. I my self have fell victim to this thread. But a wise man told me once apon a time that truth is a matter on what one believes is the truth! this is pertaining to religion. So all of this bickering and saying what is right and what is wrong really comes down to what some one perceives is their truth. And I truly believe that some of the really active posters on this thread do make their opinions know just to start a fight or some thing a long those lines. There has been some sort of religion in the world for thousands of years who is to say what is true and what is not!
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Old 09-17-2015, 12:58 AM #5736
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Who is to say what is truth? Cyparagon, of course!
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 09-17-2015, 01:12 AM #5737
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Who is to say what is truth? Cyparagon, of course!
Na he talks a lot but without google and wikipedia he's lost
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Old 09-17-2015, 01:15 AM #5738
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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There has been some sort of religion in the world for thousands of years
And humans have been in the world for hundreds of thousands. What's your point?

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there is even a popular belief that god is not male but female.
You said popular, but you meant fringe.

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a wise man told me once apon a time that truth is a matter on what one believes is the truth!
You said wise, but you meant goofy.

If truth was a matter on what I BELIEVE is the truth, me believing you were a 4 meter collection of swan arms and rat wings would make it a truth. That's not wise, that's goofy.

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Arguing against peoples cherished beliefs or religion is futile
That's an interesting statement to make, considering you post your own thoughts in the RELIGION THREAD so often.

If you actually believed this, you'd leave.

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Discuss the good points of religion... or are you too barren to find or acknowledge anything good?

That would be a positive direction instead of having so much petty enjoyment writing about how "stupid" or illogical some peoples beliefs are as you shake your crooked stick of discontentment at them.
I think you should discuss Jeffrey Dahmer's good points, like how during high school he "was observed by staff to be a polite student who was known to be highly intelligent."... Or are you too barren to find or acknowledge anything good in a serial killer?

That would be a positive direction instead of having so much petty enjoyment writing how "disgusting" or horrifying his cannibalism is, as you shake your crooked stick of discontentment at him.
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Old 09-17-2015, 02:12 AM #5739
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

OK, that's it Cyparagon, you are right about everything, let's move on
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 09-17-2015, 04:03 AM #5740
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Move on to what? Discussing religion, which you believe is pointless?
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Old 09-17-2015, 04:14 AM #5741
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
OK, that's it Cyparagon, you are right about everything, let's move on
Worst. Counter argument. Ever.
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Old 09-17-2015, 05:25 PM #5742
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Are you using some weird ad-hoc definition of "bad" here? Bad for what? Bad in what context?

Bad for the human race in general? Of course - it's self-explanatory.
From-

A: "lowering the well being of your neighbors"

to

B:
"Bad for the human race in general? Of course"

Focusing on the word bad, and whatever definition you apply to it. Explain how you OBJECTIVELY got from A to B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
And what would you say to someone that interprets the morality rules differently than you do (i.e. arguably everyone)?
The answers for that can vary significantly depending on the specific situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
HEY! We agree on something
Gotta start somewhere.
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:02 PM #5743
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
From-

A: "lowering the well being of your neighbors"

to

B:
"Bad for the human race in general? Of course"

Focusing on the word bad, and whatever definition you apply to it. Explain how you OBJECTIVELY got from A to B.
Bad
adjective
2. not such as to be hoped for or desired; unpleasant or unwelcome.

Lowering of well-being is unpleasant or unwelcome. Why is that not obvious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
The answers for that can vary significantly depending on the specific situation.
Would you ever admit your interpretation was wrong?
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Old 09-17-2015, 10:20 PM #5744
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Bad
adjective
2. not such as to be hoped for or desired; unpleasant or unwelcome.

Lowering of well-being is unpleasant or unwelcome. Why is that not obvious?



Would you ever admit your interpretation was wrong?
you know it might be well for you to take your own advice..
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