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Old 08-28-2015, 02:23 PM #5697
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
The biggest mistake that atheists make is the constant attempts to provoke and insult those who believe in something, it seems as if they want everyone to hate them and not trust them.
I’m not an atheist but that’s quite a generalisation.

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However it seems to me as if everyone who has taken offence to what Cyparagon (Alex?) has said or done, need to develop a much thicker skin, as well as take (excuse my French) a fucking chill.
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And you need to explain what the fuck you are talking about! There are limits that shouldn't be crossed unless you are making a deliberate attemp to cause harm or start trouble.
It is quite simple. Perhaps my use of the word f*** wasn’t exactly the wisest of choices but what I said should clearly be self-explanatory. I wasn’t referring to any situation in particular, but merely a hypothetical example where Cyparagon has questioned the ideas of an individual and they took it as an offence against them personally rather than their way of thinking. Just as you said, neither I nor the moderators here can read and examine every single post and therefore there may be unresolved situations involving personal attacks on individuals. However, even if such a case occurred, Cyparagon (much to his credit) openly apologised for that and I see no reason for anyone who is complaining to try and justify themselves.

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What do you mean by this? Political systems don't respect the individual, I have respect for individuals but little respect for political systems. The political system in your own country is highly questionable, you can't defend yourself if someone breaks into your home, you can't own weapons, if you can get a license you have to keep them unloaded and locked up making them useless. You can't even legally own a laser over 1mW. Those who don't stand up for their rights deserve what they get.
You completely missed the entire point of what I just said. Rather than seeing the word “POLITICAL” and throwing up all over your computer you would do well to read things in context next time. I merely used the word as a way to describe the rules and regulations that govern the forum. That’s why I used “political” in quotation marks.

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I do not understand your thinking, I think you are either uneducated or mentally ill. I do however hope you get well soon. There are limits to what anyone should put up with or it will get out of control. If I went around calling black people niggers or talking about Jews the wrong way I would expect to be killed. I once started an argument here just because I used the word "bi***ual" and I didn't even use it in a bad way, or at least it wasn't my intention, yet someone didn't like it. I try to be diplomatic and friendly and help people the best I can, but there are some people that are just the opposite and it can sometimes be hopeless to try.
I think that it would be quite objective to say that there are so many hypocrisies contained within your post that it’s not even funny and at this point I can’t believe what you’ve said. Hopefully there was some other external situation that caused you to respond in such a personally offensive manner, but perhaps not. You’ve stated that you’re profusely against the use of personal attacks made by other members and (perhaps) Cyp in the past and yet you accuse me of having a mental disorder? Furthermore, whilst offering your condolences due to my unfortunate psychiatric condition.

You stated yourself that "There are limits that shouldn't be crossed unless you are making a deliberate attemp to cause harm or start trouble." Your actions could not be further apart from your beliefs. It appears as if you’re acting the least diplomatic and friendly out of all of us and I am beyond the point of trying to reason with you. I hope you take the opportunity to re-read your post and perhaps reconsider what you’ve said.


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Old 08-28-2015, 06:55 PM #5698
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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You stated yourself that "There are limits that shouldn't be crossed unless you are making a deliberate attemp to cause harm or start trouble." Your actions could not be further apart from your beliefs. It appears as if you’re acting the least diplomatic and friendly out of all of us and I am beyond the point of trying to reason with you. I hope you take the opportunity to re-read your post and perhaps reconsider what you’ve said.
You are quite correct, I over reacted and I apologize for what I said about you. I wouldn't know because I don't know you. You seemed to have been saying that some are over reacting though and that I very much disagree with and found offensive that someone would even think so. If you take the time to read through more of this thread you will see it is full of offensive posts that are intended to provoke or insult people with any beliefs. Fortunately there has been some recent activity by the mods to cut back on this. This thread should be just discussion about religion, there should be no insults and trolling directed toward people of any religion. I am not talking about Cyp, I only remember him viciously attacking two members with multiple neg reps in a row and one of those was someone who was a little strange and annoying anyway and was later banned, there have been other worse offenders, let's forget it though, others can be offended if it continues. It's a good thing we don't have any radical Muslims here, or do we? There were two people who posted recently from Iran and Egypt, I hope they don't find their way to this thread, I can only imagine. I also thank God that Teej hasn't posted much here lately, I don't want to read a book everytime I view this thread, I know this isn't Twitter but there are reasonable limits. I also want to say I have nothing against Australians, there was another thread where someone else started an argument and I made a similar comment that got some people upset. What's right for one country isn't necessarily right for another country, the laws and politics of any country are an internal matter for the citizens of that country and are none of my business except in the U.S. and plenty of people around the world don't like us Americans and yet so many want to come to live here. I do have a bad habit of just saying what I think at the time and it has caused problems before. I will try to do this less but I can't guarantee it. I have a medical condition that will likely be fatal within several years and I often have to drink some glasses of wine to relieve my symptoms, although this makes me tired and I don't usually post when I am tired and not thinking clearly. I don't want to add fuel to the fire here but some of us have to stand up for what we believe, or what we believe doesn't mean anything. If someone else crosses the line then I can't promise that I won't in defence of what I believe.

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Old 08-28-2015, 08:40 PM #5699
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Whew, what a thread. I've been a little reluctant to hop in here, but I thought might as well share. When I was growing up (I still am but shh), I was never persuaded to believe one way or another. I was never told God or the Bible was right or wrong, nor was I told that atheism or Buddhism or Islam was right or wrong. I believed what I felt was logical, and to me that was science and atheism. It just, made more sense to me. For a while, my mindset was something like "well, it's only logical, I don't get how anyone could believe those fairy tales." But then I realized, people who believe in a god or genesis or whatever are just as confident in their beliefs as I am in mine, with the possible exception that I would be more willing to change my beliefs if sufficient evidence was provided to me. That's the thing about science, the beliefs in it are always changing as we learn and grow. It seems like science is about looking at facts and seeing what conclusions we can draw, while creationism seems like it's looking at the conclusions, and seeing what facts they can find to support it. That's also why it kinda bugs me when people say "look at that, science was wrong once again" or something like "...science can't explain", it's because science is always changing as we find facts that prove or disprove theories. Of course we get things wrong, it's how we learn. I have recognized now that to most people who believe in God(s), their beliefs are so buried in the foundation of who they are, it's damn near impossible to change it. It sometimes takes a lot of willpower to not involve myself if someone is peacefully stating their beliefs if it opposes mine, but I usually manage to. I'm fine with what you believe, some people find their beliefs to be more comforting than what can sometimes be the harsh truth that science can display. If it makes you happy and a better person, I say gopher it. But only when your beliefs affect other people in a negative way, involving issues such as gay marriage and such, that's when it goes too far, and they need to learn to not negatively affect other people's lives with their beliefs. I also recognize that Christians are not the only offenders of this crime, atheists and others can do this too. All in all, believe what you want to, as long as it makes you and others happy, but there are limits that once crossed will hurt other people.
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Old 08-28-2015, 10:00 PM #5700
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I am not talking about Cyp, I only remember him viciously attacking two members with multiple neg reps...
While you see giving negative reputation as a "vicious attack", I see it as voicing disapproval of a post. Multiple violations warrant multiple statements of disapproval in my book - sorry if that seems weird. Like everything else on the web, try not to take it too seriously.

Read the comments I left, and read the offending posts. Don't ignore them in favor of some conspiracy narrative.
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Last edited by Cyparagon; 08-28-2015 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 08-29-2015, 04:28 AM #5701
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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You are quite correct, I over reacted and I apologize for what I said about you. I wouldn't know because I don't know you.
I accept your apology and thank you
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You seemed to have been saying that some are over reacting though and that I very much disagree with and found offensive that someone would even think so. If you take the time to read through more of this thread you will see it is full of offensive posts that are intended to provoke or insult people with any beliefs.
True, I don’t know the full story since I have not taken the time to read hardly any of it. Perhaps it was short-sighted of me to suggest that no one should have taken offence to anything for that matter since I’ve got very little idea of what actually happened At this point in time I can’t defend or accuse anyone of anything that has previously transpired since I don’t know the details. If someone’s got a problem it would be best to take it up with them personally before anything else.
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I also want to say I have nothing against Australians.
No offence taken. You were merely stating what the current political situation is like in Australia and that’s fine.
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What's right for one country isn't necessarily right for another country, the laws and politics of any country are an internal matter for the citizens of that country and are none of my business except in the U.S. and plenty of people around the world don't like us Americans and yet so many want to come to live here.
Like you said, in some cases it would be negligent of anyone to disregard ones beliefs simply because they think it isn’t any of their business. Any thinking person should be obliged to stand up for what they believe in even if it involves the politics of another country. Ultimately, ideals and principles that take hold in one country (in America particularly) will eventually spill over and affect another. There are many examples of this, with both good and bad outcomes.
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I don't want to add fuel to the fire here but some of us have to stand up for what we believe, or what we believe doesn't mean anything. If someone else crosses the line then I can't promise that I won't in defence of what I believe.
At least some of us need to stand up for what we believe in; it is an essential part of our human nature.
For if it were not for our beliefs and ideals than we are nothing more than animals of consumerism.
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I do have a bad habit of just saying what I think at the time and it has caused problems before. I will try to do this less but I can't guarantee it. I have a medical condition that will likely be fatal within several years and I often have to drink some glasses of wine to relieve my symptoms, although this makes me tired and I don't usually post when I am tired and not thinking clearly.
I say this with the utmost sincerity that I offer my greatest condolences to you. I have an Aunty who has a severe physical ailment and at times it can be difficult for us to manage her life and ensure that she feels truly loved. I cannot even imagine the physical and mental pain that she has to deal with on a daily basis. My obvious advice is to always, always keep your family close within your home and within your heart. Because at the end of the day, when it all comes down to it, family are the most important people we will ever have in our lives.

Last edited by will manners; 08-29-2015 at 04:28 AM.
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Old 08-30-2015, 10:18 PM #5702
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'm back, back on topic now

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How are you responsible for his elevation? You didn't put the man there. You just pushed him off.

Fire a few neutrons at a lump of U235. Is the effect bigger than the cause? Are you responsible for the existence of U235?
It would be impossible for that man to fall off the building if it wasn't built and he climbed up it first. Would it be possible to unlock the energy in U235 if it wasn't first created in a supernova. Seems like you have an arbitrary way of choosing where the cause begins and ends.


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Whether I ridicule or not has no bearing on my initial argument. I'll leave out the last sentence if it makes you happy:

You're not allowed to make the claim the bible is a historically accurate account of the world, then explain away all the admitted historical inaccuracies as "poetry".

I didn't and haven't done that.

It's a fact that not every book in the bible is a literal historical account.


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It may not seem like it, but I'd happily grab a beer with Mr Duke or yourself any time.
Same here.
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:15 AM #5703
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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It may not seem like it, but I'd happily grab a beer with Mr Duke or yourself any time. However, you'd do well to divorce your character from your ideas and actions. That is to say, if you take criticism personally, you and I will not get along.

Let's get back on topic now.
Sure a beer sounds good. I'm not in Wisconsin though
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:36 AM #5704
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

While I have made my opinions known on this thread I am going to say some thing that is more than likely ruffle some feathers so to speak. I really could care less what every one else thinks on religion.

I have a personal belief and that is I believe in my lord jesus christ and if you do not than that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Now for the feather ruffling. I also believe that all religions stem on a central theme. If you look at Christianity and Islam they are the exact same religion. The only difference is that Christianity believes in Jesus and Islam follows the prophet Mohammad teaching they both follow god or Ala Akabar which in I think its farsi is god. the difference in the prophet.

Now comes the other major religions. Jews follow the old testament as well as Catholics both are considered to be Christians more or less. Mormons are lumped in with Christians but are not according to some. Most lump Mormons in with a Cult. To follow the teaching of a man born in the 18th century name John Smith. Any way back on topic. The other major religions such as Buddhism, Scientology, Daoisim, Animal-ism, and a few others are not really religions per say but ways of life but those ways of life are what brings be to my point! They are ways of life that believe that there is a higher power than ones self.

No matter what religion that you belong to it is that one unshakable truth that brings most of us to a religion. To believe in something that is greater than ones self and to be apart of that group of people that share that same thought. Who is to say what is right or wrong when it comes to believing in some thing that is greater than ones own self. It

This debate has been going on for thousands of years, caused many wars, strife, murder, genocide and sadness. Why do we who dwell on LPF pull out our weapons and go through all of this just in the name of our beliefs. Most wars were started this way. This and for land or both. Why can we not just get a long. we all belong to the race of Human beings and yet we act like total animals when politics or religion comes up.
To don your armor and tear your fellow human being down over what the write on a computer screen some times makes less sense to me than fighting a actual war. It all comes down to the same dam thing. A difference of opinion!

Unfortunately I do not think we as a race will ever be able to put our differences aside and stand as brothers and sisters in the race of man! We have to many pointless issues that we can not seem to let go. I throw my self in that group and that is why I am were I am in life. Broken and bruised because I could not let go of the small shit. That is the only one thing that we as a race has ever believed in the same is solving some thing with our fists. And to me that really is what defines us as a race and frigging idiotic that it really is.

Well I have made my last comment on this thread! Agree with it or don't I really could care less. I am trying to show that no matter what you do in your digital lives will it ever be popular with every one. So learn to let things that truly mean anything on line bug you and come going the rest of the race of man saying Im done with the Shit let us all become brothers and sisters and unite the world in peace
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Old 08-31-2015, 03:40 AM #5705
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by vortish View Post
While I have made my opinions known on this thread I am going to say some thing that is more than likely ruffle some feathers so to speak. I really could care less what every one else thinks on religion.

I have a personal belief and that is I believe in my lord jesus christ and if you do not than that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Now for the feather ruffling. I also believe that all religions stem on a central theme. If you look at Christianity and Islam they are the exact same religion. The only difference is that Christianity believes in Jesus and Islam follows the prophet Mohammad teaching they both follow god or Ala Akabar which in I think its farsi is god. the difference in the prophet.

Now comes the other major religions. Jews follow the old testament as well as Catholics both are considered to be Christians more or less. Mormons are lumped in with Christians but are not according to some. Most lump Mormons in with a Cult. To follow the teaching of a man born in the 18th century name John Smith. Any way back on topic. The other major religions such as Buddhism, Scientology, Daoisim, Animal-ism, and a few others are not really religions per say but ways of life but those ways of life are what brings be to my point! They are ways of life that believe that there is a higher power than ones self.

No matter what religion that you belong to it is that one unshakable truth that brings most of us to a religion. To believe in something that is greater than ones self and to be apart of that group of people that share that same thought. Who is to say what is right or wrong when it comes to believing in some thing that is greater than ones own self. It

This debate has been going on for thousands of years, caused many wars, strife, murder, genocide and sadness. Why do we who dwell on LPF pull out our weapons and go through all of this just in the name of our beliefs. Most wars were started this way. This and for land or both. Why can we not just get a long. we all belong to the race of Human beings and yet we act like total animals when politics or religion comes up.
To don your armor and tear your fellow human being down over what the write on a computer screen some times makes less sense to me than fighting a actual war. It all comes down to the same dam thing. A difference of opinion!

Unfortunately I do not think we as a race will ever be able to put our differences aside and stand as brothers and sisters in the race of man! We have to many pointless issues that we can not seem to let go. I throw my self in that group and that is why I am were I am in life. Broken and bruised because I could not let go of the small shit. That is the only one thing that we as a race has ever believed in the same is solving some thing with our fists. And to me that really is what defines us as a race and frigging idiotic that it really is.

Well I have made my last comment on this thread! Agree with it or don't I really could care less. I am trying to show that no matter what you do in your digital lives will it ever be popular with every one. So learn to let things that truly mean anything on line bug you and come going the rest of the race of man saying Im done with the Shit let us all become brothers and sisters and unite the world in peace
EXACTLY. these people just don't listen though. they feel becuase they can, they will argue here in this thread.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:05 AM #5706
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by micheal rosen View Post
EXACTLY. these people just don't listen though. they feel becuase they can, they will argue here in this thread.

"These people" ? Are you something different to the rest of us? .

I find that phrase offensive, like you have some greater understanding than the rest of us? ..I know you didn't mean to offend, it's just the way I think.

And therein lies the problem...a difference of opinion. People the world over have differences of opinion, they believe what the want (or in some cases, told) to believe...it's why neighboring countries fire missiles at each other.

Differences of opinion will always spark discussion / arguments / debate...sometimes heated, but people here aren't arguing "because they can" , they can argue anywhere. It's a discussion with differing opinions.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:11 AM #5707
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Would it be possible to unlock the energy in U235 if it wasn't first created in a supernova.
The cause is neutrons. The result is boom. It's pretty goofy to take supernova energy into nuclear explosion physics - nobody does that.

Saying "yes, but this wouldn't be possible if neutrons didn't exist" is just a silly point to argue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
You're not allowed to make the claim the bible is a historically accurate account of the world, then explain away all the admitted historical inaccuracies as "poetry".
I didn't and haven't done that.

It's a fact that not every book in the bible is a literal historical account.
I'd take issue with this quote specifically:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
salvation in Christ is firmly grounded in history.
Salvation is not even provable until after you die. Since the dead cannot communicate with the living as far as we know, this salvation is thusfar not been proven.

Did you instead mean the existence of Christ? If you'd replace "firmly" with "tenuously", I might agree. But only to the same extent as other prophets/gods are mentioned in history.

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Originally Posted by vortish View Post
I really could care less what every one else thinks on religion.
You mean couldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vortish View Post
they both follow god or Ala Akabar
This alone shows you have a lot of ignorance of Islam. I giggled though

Quote:
Originally Posted by vortish View Post
Jews follow the old testament as well as Catholics both are considered to be Christians more or less.
No!

A christian is by definition someone who follows the teachings of christ. Jews do not believe in christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vortish View Post
Most lump Mormons in with a Cult. To follow the teaching of a man born in the 18th century name John Smith.
Wrong again. It's Joseph Smith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vortish View Post
Why do we who dwell on LPF pull out our weapons
What ARE you talking about? What weapons? I might just assume you're trying to speak poetically, but then you say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by vortish View Post
Most wars were started this way.
... with a discussion on the internet? Sure. If you say so.
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Last edited by Cyparagon; 08-31-2015 at 08:36 AM. Reason: vortish response additions
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Old 08-31-2015, 01:00 PM #5708
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Default

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Originally Posted by ped View Post
"These people" ? Are you something different to the rest of us? .

I find that phrase offensive, like you have some greater understanding than the rest of us? ..I know you didn't mean to offend, it's just the way I think.

And therein lies the problem...a difference of opinion. People the world over have differences of opinion, they believe what the want (or in some cases, told) to believe...it's why neighboring countries fire missiles at each other.

Differences of opinion will always spark discussion / arguments / debate...sometimes heated, but people here aren't arguing "because they can" , they can argue anywhere. It's a discussion with differing opinions.
Oh I'm sorry I just meant it as "the people here" not anything bad.

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Old 09-04-2015, 02:29 PM #5709
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@ vortish

From one Christ believer to another -
Biblically we are supposed to hold each other accountable. I know Cpy already let you have it but I want to throw in my 2 cents too.

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Originally Posted by vortish View Post
If you look at Christianity and Islam they are the exact same religion.
This statement is so wrong it almost became right again. Christianity and Islam differ radically on core doctrinal issues.

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Originally Posted by vortish View Post
Well I have made my last comment on this thread! Agree with it or don't I really could care less.
There is something wrong with "Here's what I think and I don't care what you think BYE" You should stand by your words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
The cause is neutrons. The result is boom. It's pretty goofy to take supernova energy into nuclear explosion physics - nobody does that.

Saying "yes, but this wouldn't be possible if neutrons didn't exist" is just a silly point to argue.

I'd take issue with this quote specifically:

Salvation is not even provable until after you die. Since the dead cannot communicate with the living as far as we know, this salvation is thusfar not been proven.

Did you instead mean the existence of Christ? If you'd replace "firmly" with "tenuously", I might agree. But only to the same extent as other prophets/gods are mentioned in history.
---To clarify, what's your criteria for defining a cause.

---I stand by that quote. Historical facts support Christ's resurrection. Also technically salvation happens immediately when you accept Christ, by grace we are saved through faith, death isn't required to receive this grace.
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Old 09-04-2015, 04:25 PM #5710
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Historical facts support Christ's resurrection.
Even if that were true, that's not why you believe. It's also not what convinces people to convert.

The best history can do is say a guy/teacher named Jesus may have existed. History has no proof that he rose from the dead or performed other miracles, let alone that he was a god.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
To clarify, what's your criteria for defining a cause.
Dictionary is a safe bet I suppose:

noun
1.
a person or thing that acts, happens, or exists in such a way that some specific thing happens as a result; the producer of an effect

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
salvation happens immediately when you accept Christ.
People say the same of <insert personal deity here> just as emphatically as you do, so I'm just shopping around.
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Last edited by Cyparagon; 09-04-2015 at 06:44 PM. Reason: afterthought
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Old 09-04-2015, 04:26 PM #5711
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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@ vortish

---I stand by that quote. Historical facts support Christ's resurrection. Also technically salvation happens immediately when you accept Christ, by grace we are saved through faith, death isn't required to receive this grace.
Uhh, I'll probably hate myself for asking but what historical facts are you referring to? Could you cite references?

Thanks,

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Old 09-05-2015, 04:54 AM #5712
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

well, the bible says that Jesus blah blah blah
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