Laser pointer discussion. Read/write reviews of laser pointers and laser pointer companies. Learn about all types of laser pointers and lasers





Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser pointer or want to compare different laser pointer companies, you may want to check out the LPF Laser Pointer Company Database. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes
Laser Technology Laser Pointer Parts Lasers by Wavelength
Top 10 Laser Pointer Companies Laser Pointer Company Database Visible Beam Laser Pointers


One laser store meets all your needs

























Go Back   Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers > Off-Topic > Other



LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-07-2015, 01:24 AM #5633
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 174
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Teej Teej is offline
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 174
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Talking Re: LPF's Religion

LOL

Huge leap.


Jumps from "If there's no magic unicorns, to,

so, logic is subjective"


Logic has rules even if there are no magic fairies.

Morals are what we consider to be right and wrong, etc, and do not require a magical being to exist to have them.


There is a difference between random chance, and adaptive chance.


IE: The odds that a puddle of water would form in the exact shape of the hole in the ground that it is found, is NOT a random chance...as, in reality, the odds are about 100% that water poured into that hole, would take the shape of that hole.

So, creatures on a planet would to ALSO form to the planet...as the planet was there first....and they adapted to it...not the other way around.


And so forth.



All of the assumptions in the cartoon are essentially meaningless.


The punchline is probably best thought of as someone who makes that many bad assumptions, and has a father who doesn't realize that they are bad...

...potentially got bad grades because he inherited his intelligence from his dim dad.



Teej is offline   Reply With Quote







LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)







Old 08-09-2015, 02:20 AM #5634
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
LOL

Huge leap.


Jumps from "If there's no magic unicorns, to,

so, logic is subjective"
Not a leap

"If we're a product of chance then wouldn't it follow..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
LOL

Logic has rules even if there are no magic fairies.

Morals are what we consider to be right and wrong, etc, and do not require a magical being to exist to have them.
It wasn't questioning their existence, it was just provoking the idea that they are subjective in that worldview.
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
[SIZE="1"]“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2015, 09:38 PM #5635
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 174
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Teej Teej is offline
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,296
Rep Power: 174
Teej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond reputeTeej has a reputation beyond repute
Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Not a leap

"If we're a product of chance then wouldn't it follow..."



It wasn't questioning their existence, it was just provoking the idea that they are subjective in that worldview.


They are unrelated though.

A world view in which logic is subjective would be illogical.




"If we're a product of chance" doesn't lead to the potential conclusions its implied it reached....its not connected.


And, again, evolution DOESN'T mean "chance" in the same way its used here anyway, its a straw man argument to start with.


its the difference between the odds of the water taking the shape of the hole, realizing that the hole shaped the water....not the chance that the water miraculously and against all odds was, "by chance", the shape of the hole it ended up in.


IE: The "chance", used relevant to evolution, is excellent, as we EXPECT the water to take the shape of the hole its poured into, and, the odds are very very good that this will happen.


The "chance" as calculated by those either very very poor at math, or, who want so badly to have something go a certain way, that they ignore the moral breach and pretend, to trick people, that the odds of the water taking the shape of the hole is infinitesimal and therefore UN-likely....rather than expected.



So, the one's who use the fake/dishonest math to try to prove their point are morally bankrupt and evil. The one's who point out that the math is wrong are morally upright, good and honest. (As always, its the creationist/theists who are the one's using the fake/dishonest math....food for thought)





So, again, no conclusions followed....logically. It was all a poorly constructed straw man leaping about.




It would be nice if just ONCE, a creationist argument, that disproved evolution, had any merit, and was not a dishonest attempt to spread a lie.

Even once would be nice.

But, every single argument is dishonest.

Why IS that?


Last edited by Teej; 08-09-2015 at 09:47 PM.
Teej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 02:44 AM #5636
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

It does follow. If our existence was a product of chance and everything is merely a grab bag of chance occurrences all slopped together and filtered through the foggy lenses we call senses, how could you substantiate the claim of objectivity.

"In other words, how can an atheist with a naturalistic presupposition account for the existence of logical absolutes when logical absolutes are conceptual by nature"
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
[SIZE="1"]“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 09:37 AM #5637
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Simple: the logical absolutes are part of the presupposition.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2015, 11:45 PM #5638
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Presupposing something doesn't validate it.
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
[SIZE="1"]“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 06:42 AM #5639
Alaskan's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southwest Asia
Posts: 6,820
Rep Power: 32250
Alaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond repute
Alaskan Alaskan is offline
Class 4 Laser
Alaskan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Southwest Asia
Posts: 6,820
Rep Power: 32250
Alaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond reputeAlaskan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Eh, me thinks the whole God concept is just that, yet.....
__________________

The forum costs more to run than donations received, if you wish to help click this link: http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm

Laser Safety: http://www.laserpointersafety.com/index.html

Sam's Laser FAQ: Sam's Laser FAQ: Welcome Page

RHD's Relative Perceived Brightness Calculator. Compare brightness @nm: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/relativebrightness

To shorten my signature I have moved most of my laser related web links to this forum page, the second post in that thread shows most of my builds... Alaskan's Laser Links: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/al...ml#post1449395


Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.
Alaskan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 08:00 AM #5640
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Presupposing something doesn't validate it.
Correct. But presupposing them makes it possible to think and reason. You try having a rational thought that is not somehow derived from the statement "A equals A"

Similarly, you can certainly claim "electrons and holes might not exist. Reality is subjective and they need validation". Meanwhile, Nichia is more-or-less presupposing electrons exist (because they also presuppose the logical absolutes), and is using that knowledge to make lasers. That's how technology works

Sounds like you're turning to apologetics. Is your response going to be something about presupposing god?
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 02:44 PM #5641
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Then are you saying reality is subjective and logical absolutes aren't validated?

Similarly, you can certainly claim "There is no God. Reality is subjective and it needs validation". Meanwhile, Christ through the church is moving hearts, and doing good in the world.
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
[SIZE="1"]“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 06:42 PM #5642
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Is there any good act a christian can do that an atheist can't do for secular reasons? Or as Hitchens puts it, "I challenge you to find one good or noble thing which cannot be accomplished without religion."
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 11:23 PM #5643
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

But then what is good. Good is not an empirical observation, it's a moral judgment. For something to be good a moral framework has to be presupposed, but where does this framework come from?
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
[SIZE="1"]“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 03:44 AM #5644
Shakenawake's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,706
Rep Power: 1553
Shakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond repute
Shakenawake Shakenawake is offline
Class 3R Laser
Shakenawake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,706
Rep Power: 1553
Shakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond reputeShakenawake has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
But then what is good. Good is not an empirical observation, it's a moral judgment. For something to be good a moral framework has to be presupposed, but where does this framework come from?
we make it up as we go. everything is relative. I realize that's not the answer you want to hear. at least this way it can be adjusted to reflect our growing knowledge and understanding of eachother and the world we live in. how is an arbirtrary moral code preferable? why do you want morals to be arbitrary?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
__________________
501B BDR-209 16X 405nm 630mW @.52Ag lens
Host by Ehgemus NUBM44 450nm 6.8W @4.5A g lens
Host by Ehgemus M462 462nm 1.5W @1.2A g lens
Dominator NUBM07E 465nm 4.3W @3.5A g lens
L2P Nichi@ NDG4216 515nm 110mW @ .35A
501B by Blord osr@m PL520 520nm 95mW @.3A g lens
PL-E pro from Jetlasers nichi@ NDG7475 520nm 980mW, 730mW w/ 10X BE

Lasermax Genesis sight 532nm 5mW
RPL from Optotronics 532nm 450mW

Spartan from Dragonlasers 589nm 50mW
501B HL63133DG 638nm 210mW @.3A g lens
501B Ocl@ro HL63193MG 638nm 960mW @1.3A g lens

501B by Blord LPC 826 660nm 325mW @?A g lens
PL660 from Laserbtb 660nm 1020mW

LPM
DL matrix and fan transmission gratings

laser powers in sig are about 20 seconds into duty cycle, not peak powers

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/co...her-94720.html

(I guess I am a vet now)
Shakenawake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 09:08 AM #5645
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
For something to be good a moral framework has to be presupposed, but where does this framework come from?
It's not presupposed, it's hardwired into (most of) our brains. We were better able to survive as a species on the plains of Africa when we worked together and helped each other. Nurture also has an effect on your morality.

There is no absolute morality that I can see, besides that which furthers our prosperity as a species, perhaps. Even among the self-appointed guardians of ultimate morality (the church), morality has changed drastically through the ages.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2015, 09:59 AM #5646
Cel's Avatar
Cel Cel is offline
Class 2M Laser
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Croatia
Posts: 738
Rep Power: 1379
Cel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond repute
Cel Cel is offline
Class 2M Laser
Cel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Croatia
Posts: 738
Rep Power: 1379
Cel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond reputeCel has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
we make it up as we go. everything is relative. I realize that's not the answer you want to hear. at least this way it can be adjusted to reflect our growing knowledge and understanding of eachother and the world we live in. (...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
I totally agree.

"Good" and "bad" are in the eye of beholder, they don't exist on their own. An event can be both good and bad; good for someone, bad for others (maybe even neutral for some). It is relative.
People often have conflicting views of good and bad.

If you ask me, all this stuff is on pretty slippery ground. There is no correct answer.
I think people should talk and solve issues through communication, logic and reason.
Cel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2015, 03:50 AM #5647
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
Class 3R Laser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
TheDukeAnumber1 TheDukeAnumber1 is offline
Class 3R Laser
TheDukeAnumber1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,045
Rep Power: 1474
TheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond reputeTheDukeAnumber1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
we make it up as we go. everything is relative. I realize that's not the answer you want to hear. at least this way it can be adjusted to reflect our growing knowledge and understanding of eachother and the world we live in. how is an arbirtrary moral code preferable? why do you want morals to be arbitrary?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism
With "we make it up as we go, everything is relative" as a base then when is any atheist justified rebuking someone else for what they believe, or what makes them doing what why feel is good,... "good". Aren't all of those interactions then just a practice of forcing ones will on each other?

My beliefs in an absolute moral framework aren't derived from my preferences or wants, it's because I'm after what is true.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
It's not presupposed, it's hardwired into (most of) our brains. We were better able to survive as a species on the plains of Africa when we worked together and helped each other. Nurture also has an effect on your morality.

There is no absolute morality that I can see, besides that which furthers our prosperity as a species, perhaps. Even among the self-appointed guardians of ultimate morality (the church), morality has changed drastically through the ages.
The evolutionary mechanism of natural selection depends on death, destruction, and violence of the strong against the weak - these things are all perfectly natural. This does not line up with what we actually see in humanity, it does not account for the good, morality, spiritual yearning, and self sacrifice seen even among non-believers. As Paul said that the knowledge of God's law is "written on our hearts, our consciences also bearing witness".
__________________
“Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
http://laserpointerforums.com/donations.htm
[SIZE="1"]“It is impossible that any ill should happen to the man who is beloved of the Lord; the most crushing calamities can only shorten his journey and hasten him to his reward. Ill to him is no ill, but only good in a mysterious form. Losses enrich him, sickness is his medicine, reproach is his honour, death is his gain. No evil in the strict sense of the word can happen to him, for everything is overruled for good. Happy is he who is in such a case. He is secure where others are in peril, he lives where others die.”—Spurgeon

Last edited by TheDukeAnumber1; 08-13-2015 at 03:50 AM.
TheDukeAnumber1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2015, 08:19 AM #5648
Cyparagon's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Cyparagon Cyparagon is online now
Class 4 Laser
Cyparagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,126
Rep Power: 7960
Cyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond reputeCyparagon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
[evolution] does not account for the good, morality, spiritual yearning, and self sacrifice seen even among non-believers.
Evolution does have explanations for these things, and I'm not going to explain them here, because you've clearly made up your mind without even trying to look for these explanations. Take an effort to understand evolution, then maybe we'll talk about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I'm after what is true.
And the most accurate way to find what is true, is to look at the evidence, and draw conclusions from it. SCIENCE.

YOU, on the other hand, are taking conclusions from the bible, and looking for evidence for it. It's undeniably backwards.
__________________
A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Cyparagon is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://laserpointerforums.com/f57/lpf-s-religion-34223.html
Posted By For Type Date
DARPA Continues Human Experiments to Create Military Super Soldiers - Top US World News | Susanne Posel Daily Headlines and Research This thread Refback 08-05-2014 01:49 AM
Def belongs in my future home | Caylin's | Pinterest This thread Refback 05-19-2014 05:18 PM
Man slays son; claims God told him to | Say What? This thread Refback 06-17-2012 04:35 AM
LPF's Religion - Page 92 - Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Lasers & Laser Pointers This thread Refback 02-29-2012 04:46 AM










Loading








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes






Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use


 


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:38 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use
Copyright (C) 2017 Laser Pointer Forums, LLC