Old 06-15-2015, 02:47 PM #5569
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Teej,

This is a response to your post on June 5th, 6:29PM eastern.

I'm sorry, but I have to give my opinion on this matter. Unfortunately, I may have to agree with Duke, I don't quite understand your points. BTW, I'm going to be using NIV references. (that stands for the new international version of the bible)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
OK, so, ignore the part about the flood written about the flood itself, supposedly
What are you trying to say? To be honest, I just don't understand..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
In which its very very clear that ONLY Noah and his family were to be spared, because the rest of humanity was not worth saving..
Genesis 6:6-7 (NIV)

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.

So what you said is true, however, you worded it a bit misleading. It is quite different for you to say God just hated people and thought they were "not worth saving". No!

The flood was a punishment, the people had sinned more than what God could tolerate. Thus, he decided to "wipe them from the face of the earth". So, yes, he didn't save them, because he was punishing them..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
...and then say that a guy a few thousand years later would have some way of KNOWING what actually flooded, and what didn't, when the ONLY information he COULD HAVE HAD would have been passed from NOAH's family...wrote a psalm that was more accurate about what happened than reported by Noah's account?
Your last sentence was somewhat true. The rest, eh..

This point is somewhat difficult to make if we go from different premises. Since you've already mentioned God in your post, let's just "assume" he exists. I will assume this throughout the remainder of this post, as you did in your post.


If you acknowledge God exists, it should be abundantly clear to you how David (the author of Psalms) gets "his information"

The divine inspiration of psalms is clearly stated in the New Testament.

Acts 1:16: "and said, “Brothers and sisters, the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David "

You're right, David did write a psalm that was more accurate than Noah's account. But based on wisdom that was given God, not his "ONLY information" from Noah.

On your comparison of Noah's flood to Katrina


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
So, lets say it was akin to the New Orleans flooding from Katrina.

If some dude decided that a flood was coming, and to build an Ark (He read the Army Core of Engineer's report. or said god read it to him...) to save himself and family, and whatever animals he could...

...and said it was going to happen because his neighbors were all sinners and god was going to smite them/drown them...

He'd be Noah.

OK, I'd buy that....and if he's the one left, sure, he can spin it anyway he wants to.

As there is a ton of evidence that small sections of the earth have flooded from time to time, that's not a debatable issue, plenty of evidence for it.

If its only a local/katrina type flood, sure, a wooden boat could be used to take a lot of the local livestock, etc.

If you're a dumb bronze age dude and didn't know that other places had different animals, or even that there WERE different places...sure, you might say "you got all of them".


The problem comes down to what you blame the flood ON.
This is a great comparison.

If the world was as large as New Orleans.

Unfortunately, the world is a little bit larger..

Here is where I believe the people in the video got wrong, or maybe you understood it wrong.

The flood was not local. I repeat, not local.

I will now prove this through scripture.

Psalms 104 - referenced multiple times in the video, this is where you got your claim that the flood was local, says this:

He set the earth on its foundations;
it can never be moved.
6 You covered it with the watery depths as with a garment;
the waters stood above the mountains.
7 But at your rebuke the waters fled,
at the sound of your thunder they took to flight;
8 they flowed over the mountains,
they went down into the valleys,
to the place you assigned for them.
9 You set a boundary they cannot cross;
never again will they cover the earth.


The verse refers to Noah's flood. You agreed. Note the bold "never again". This doesn't contradict Genesis stating that Noah's flood covered the earth! When they say the boundaries would never be crossed, they are talking about from Noah's flood and on

This should be quite simple to understand.

It's exactly the same as what the Lord says in Genesis 8:21

The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.


So no, this flood is not the same as Katrina, and Noah is not just a lucky Army Corp Vet with a big boat who got lucky

Speaking of luck, you can argue that even if this flood did occur, it was from extreme chance, there doesn't have to be God who made it happen.

Nope, not happening. About as likely as cows and pigs flying. In other words, a probability of 0.

To your summary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
He either had a brain fart, and forgot he only murdered a few people but said the entire earth....or, he didn't have a brain fart, and did wipe out everyone except Noah and his family...and made rainbows.

People who like rainbows therefore should be fans of global flooding.
Say I received a Silver Star because I lost my leg in Iraq. I appreciate my medal, does that mean I'm "a fan" of losing my leg?

The rainbow is symbol, an acknowledgement of God's covenant with humanity. The silver star is a symbol, an acknowledgement of my sacrifice to my country. I hope this can be understand.

I do not understand the rest of your post about brain farts, rainbows, water vapor, and physics. Even if I did, I don't think it would be necessary to respond, so I shall end my post here.

Thank you for your time,
jdawg

P.S If I did not address some of your points in this post, that you wanted me to. Please let me know. I attempted to cover everything. But, I'm human

P.P.S This was a response to one of your posts. It was the first post I saw. I don't have time to read through your others. But I thought this would be accurate representation of a "typical Teej post".


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Old 06-15-2015, 02:59 PM #5570
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Oh, and Cyparagon, you seem to be an avid agnostic and harsh critic of any form of deism.

Please, do respond.

In complete respect and genuine scholastic interest,

jdawg
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Old 06-15-2015, 06:11 PM #5571
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

jdawg -

Many theists have trouble with points that are made in this vein. I'll break down some examples.


For example:

1) Noah's Ark is a story that includes telling us why there are rainbows.

2) Noah's Ark is also a story about how god had to erase his mistakes (US), and start over.

3) Noah's Ark is also a story about God feeling bad about killing everyone on earth except Noah's family, and, making rainbows to act as a reminder, to himself, to not DROWN everyone again.

4) The only possible authors of the story are Noah's family.

5) These good people sold one son into slavery (To themselves?) because he saw his dad naked....and told his brothers? What?

6) The one sold into slavery...when ONLY Noah's family existed...who got the money, and, who got the brother as a slave? Did they share him? Did they grant his freedom so he could go off and start these families in Africa as alleged, etc?

7) The earth was under ~ 5-6 MILES of water for about a year.

8) After the water went (where?) the trees and plants were fine...somehow (Another miracle of course...)

9) The power to have the plants survive a year of Marianas Trench depth submersal was nice, but, why bother to HAVE a years flood? Why not have make the things you want dead, die?

10) Lets let the ridiculous Ark-specific logistics (#'s, etc...) ride, there are so many other problems anyway...


So, you can look at all of the above several ways.

The only people worth saving WERE Noah's family...as, those are the only ones SAVED. YES, he punished the others, instead of saving them...because, they were not worth saving...or, he WOULD HAVE saved them.

Prisms didn't work until after the flood.

God kills those who disappoint him, but not everyone at once, from drowning, anymore...


Believing in the flood being a punishment for sin and the rainbow being a modern sign that this happened....means a fan of the flood story is a fan of the rainbow story. Not a fan of what happened, just that you believe the story)

It doesn't really mean they are a fan of Immortal Omnipotent Omniscient beings murdering everyone they made wrong...but, if they believe god only does good things, then, they are.

If they believe god only does good things, then they have to reconcile why he regretted doing it...as that implies it WASN'T a good thing.

If god is never wrong, why did he have to erase mistakes and start over? He could not think of a better way than a flood? Why make Noah build an Ark, when he could have just made everything he wanted to survive, survive, as he did with all the plants?

As the flood would have destroyed any records not IN the ark, and, only the occupants OF the ark existed after it "docked"...all knowledge of the world, including what happened before the ark, such as Genesis...came from that point forward.

So, someone had to write this stuff down...and/or carry it around...for it to have made it to this time.

The Ark story has no mention of gathering books, or anything related to wisdom or knowledge.

No holy artifacts were gathered...just critters.

I could see leaving out that he also needed a few pooper scoopers and brooms, etc...as well as equipment to keep anerobes alive, etc...

...but if there was a book that contained the story of mankind, and who begat who up to that point, you'd think there would have been SOME mention of it?

That would have been a pretty big deal you'd think.


And so forth.


7 Laws were reported to have been given to them after the flood...but, there's no record of it except in the Talmud....and they don't say how THEY knew IN the Talmud....basically, they had "wise men" debate how it must have happened, including what god to adam and eve. And wrote that down. That's where ALL of the story comes from as well...not TOO coincidentally.

The Talmud says what happened, and, there's no other record of it...or of itself existing before hand. So, to get WRITTEN, someone had to WRITE IT. Jewish Scholars write the Talmud....meaning, in this case, that, Noah's people wrote their own history...and, well, that's famously unreliable as a news source historically. IE: The tale of the flood would have to be written by its PARTICIPANTS...and, their descendents. (It was written by itself?)

Bible Belt people claimed KATRINA was god punishing gays. That would be god punishing people with a flood. THAT is the similar part. Noah being the only one TOLD about it was the twist...whereas there was no "Noah" in New Orleans to save the animals at least.

The Army Core of Engineers DID tell people they had to build up the system in case of storm surge...so, if there WAS a (Katrina) Noah, he would have been (ANALOGOUSLY) informed by the Army Core the way Noah was informed by God. THAT is the comparison.




The above are some points, broken down.

Is that easier to understand?


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Old 06-16-2015, 03:36 PM #5572
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Yes, you've made yourself clearer. But as I said above, I understood most of what you were saying, just not some parts. And I didn't think I really needed to understand those parts..

Now in a debate, we have points, and we address each other. You've done nothing in this post but to tell me how "unlikely" the flood was. I understand that, but if God ever acted in such "likely" ways as to convince people like you, I don't think any of this arguing would be necessary

Your posts are too long. Cut them short. Just some advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Bible Belt people claimed KATRINA was god punishing gays. That would be god punishing people with a flood. THAT is the similar part. Noah being the only one TOLD about it was the twist...whereas there was no "Noah" in New Orleans to save the animals at least.
I don't think you even read my last post. Read it again. I don't need to say more.

Or I guess in your line of logic, I eat fish, dolphins eat fish too. I'm a dolphin then!

Disregard the fact that I can't hold my breath longer than 5 minutes, I swim about 8 times slower than them, I live on land, I have hands, I have legs, on and on...

Yes, Katrina and Noah's ark both involved flooding. Noah's flood was caused by the Lord. Some radical in Oklahoma claimed Katrina was caused by God. Does this make them equal? ..really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
1) Noah's Ark is a story that includes telling us why there are rainbows.
1. Correction: it is a story that tells us what rainbows mean. Nobody said there were no rainbows before Noah's time? Yeah sure, go ahead and argue. Be my guest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
2) Noah's Ark is also a story about how god had to erase his mistakes (US), and start over.
Human's weren't his mistake... If I child rebels against a parent, and the parent disciplines his child, is that because the parent made a mistake in his parenting?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
3) Noah's Ark is also a story about God feeling bad about killing everyone on earth except Noah's family, and, making rainbows to act as a reminder, to himself, to not DROWN everyone again.
Like I said in the last post, it's a covenant..

I really don't see your point after these first three posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
4) The only possible authors of the story are Noah's family.
True, but did you read my last post. The Psalms were divinely inspired.. Sure, sounds cheesy, but that's honestly what they were.

EVEN IF Noah's family were the only "authors" to this story, does that necessarily mean it's not an accurate account.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
5) These good people sold one son into slavery (To themselves?) because he saw his dad naked....and told his brothers? What?
Dude..seriously? Why are you wasting your time, and all of our time, making comments like this?

It's the OLD TESTAMENT. Please entertain yourself in reading a few more books, you'll find much much more, and much much worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
6) The one sold into slavery...when ONLY Noah's family existed...who got the money, and, who got the brother as a slave? Did they share him? Did they grant his freedom so he could go off and start these families in Africa as alleged, etc?
No idea, dude. What the heck does this have to do with anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
7) The earth was under ~ 5-6 MILES of water for about a year.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
8) After the water went (where?) the trees and plants were fine...somehow (Another miracle of course...)
Who said the trees and plants were fine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
9) The power to have the plants survive a year of Marianas Trench depth submersal was nice, but, why bother to HAVE a years flood? Why not have make the things you want dead, die?
Why don't you go knocking on heaven's gate and ask God? God is infinitely greater than each and every one us. How he decides to accomplish his tasks is above us.

But seriously, "make the things you want dead, die"? makes sense
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
10) Lets let the ridiculous Ark-specific logistics (#'s, etc...) ride, there are so many other problems anyway...
Okay, beast. Whatever you say.

Now, that you've mentioned all the "ridiculous" logistics of the ark, let me tell you something even more ridiculous.

~2000 years ago, on the outskirts of the city of Jerusalem, a man was crucified. Killed. Three days later, he rose from dead. Now, isn't that just the most ridonculous thing you have ever heard?

I'm not going to reply to this thread anymore. But I think I've made my point clear enough.

1 Peter 5:6 says

Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you.

Good luck!
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:15 PM #5573
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Short Post

You asked:

Who said the trees and plants were fine?


Answer: The bible

Context #1 = The dove returned with an olive branch.

Context #2 = The herbivores didn't all starve to death when getting out of the ark.

The Koala had eucalyptus

The Panda's had bamboo

The monarch butterflies had milkweed

The pen tailed tree shrew had fermented nectar from bertam palms

And so on and so forth.

If the plants had died due to a year of deep submersal...all these animals would have starved to death, plus the elephants, brontosaurs, etc.

As these all are still with us, that implies the plants WERE fine.


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Old 06-16-2015, 11:19 PM #5574
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

You asked what slavery had to do with anything...

Um, why is slavery part of the story not open to discussion?

Its the conclusion of the story...why does IT not have relevance?


THE STORY SAYS he was "sold into slavery".

THE STORY SAYS it was because he saw his dad naked and told his brothers.


I say its relevant. So - Who got the money, and, who paid for him? And, if his own family are the only people on earth...and the brother is their slave...isn't that a bit awkward? How did he have descendants?

Not in bible, but from biblical scholars saying he's the brother who populated Africa...How'd he allegedly populate Africa while a slave in the middle east? Slave's offspring are owned by the masters.




Its in the BIBLE....look it up.






Old vs New Testament:

You CAN'T say "That's the old testament" with the meaning that somehow it doesn't count.

If you remove everything that's in the old testament from the new testament....there is no original sin. No original sin, no need to forgive it. No need to forgive it, no need for Jesus, and so forth.

Its the foundation upon which the entire Christian faith is based.

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Old 06-16-2015, 11:34 PM #5575
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

General:

You did the "I give up" post where you say "Why don't you ask god?" and/or something that implies you can state your opinion freely, but if I state mine, I am not humble, or, other reference to a storybook passage that says to be meek, not to seek knowledge, don't think you're smart...or some other way to reply to something that flusters you.


IE: You can say I am going to hell, with certainty.

I say there is no hell, or heaven, and that you're in La La Land.


You say, yeah, well, if someone thinks they are smart, they are not/if you think you're right god will punish you. (Paraphrasing the CONCEPT)

That's supposed to imply that the other person is wrong because they thought they were right.

It forgets that both sides assume they are right, and, that they have based that knowledge on their best efforts to learn the truth.


So, if you think you're right, that DOESN'T mean you're wrong, or conceited, or vain, or disrespectful....even if you are actually wrong.

The same goes for me.

So the replies that ignore the issues and just say "God can do anything so if its impossible it doesn't matter" and "If you don't believe god will punish you"

Are not a discussion of the issues, they are an escape attempt.



IE: If I were convinced things that could not happen, that had evidence of NOT HAPPENING....happened anyway because "God can do anything", I would not be posting that these events didn't happen.


So, if the debate is me saying it couldn't happen, and why, and your reply is "God can do anything"....its not really productive.



So, yeah, the dying for ~ 3 days to forgive us for an ancient ancestor being tricked by god IS ridiculous, too, now that you mention it. Especially the convenient way he's never seen again, just as though he'd died and NOT come back, etc. (Of course, he's witnessed JUST before disappearing forever...by people in the story book who are also never heard from again except in the story book.


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Old 06-17-2015, 02:30 AM #5576
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
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Old 06-17-2015, 11:00 AM #5577
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.


"The natives sacrificing a virgin to the volcano, to appease it, seemed foolish to the missionaries observing the rite. The natives assured the missionaries that the sacrifice pleased the volcano, and protected them from its eruptions"



"To those who drink the cool-aide it is not foolishness, as to them, it means being saved by the power of god"



"Things that seem foolish to observing third parties seem holy to those performing the religious rites. We see a poor goat being murdered, they see god enjoying the blood, and answering their prayers for spilling it"

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Old 06-17-2015, 12:23 PM #5578
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

And it comes down to this, those other cool-aid drinkers don't have Jesus. They don't have the scripture that contains many fufilled prophecies. They don't have reliable eye witness accounts to their savior. Scripture teaches us to love, and serve others, it's a light shining in the darkness.

You will say scripture is corrupt beyond any resemblance of the truth, I will say it contains the truth. I'm my view you're drinking the cool-aid of our culture.

This is the standstill you and I are at, it's time we cool our jets and end unfruitful arguments.
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Old 06-17-2015, 01:41 PM #5579
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
And it comes down to this, those other cool-aid drinkers don't have Jesus. They don't have the scripture that contains many fufilled prophecies. They don't have reliable eye witness accounts to their savior. Scripture teaches us to love, and serve others, it's a light shining in the darkness.

You will say scripture is corrupt beyond any resemblance of the truth, I will say it contains the truth. I'm my view you're drinking the cool-aid of our culture.

This is the standstill you and I are at, it's time we cool our jets and end unfruitful arguments.


Actually, no, I don't see scripture as devoid of truth, just as I see some novels as having truth, albeit the story is fiction.

Taking comfort from stories, inspiring tales, etc, is not wrong.

Believing them to be true though can be harmful depending upon how you change the way you act based upon it. Some do good works.

The drinkers of the cool-aide (The People's Temple of the Disciples of Christ), WERE Christian based (AND HAD JESUS)...and, believed it would bring them salvation.


IE: THE drinkers of Cool-Aide, the one's who lead to the expression being coined...HAD JESUS. (The People's Temple of the Disciples of Christ)






They acted differently because they thought it was true.

Essentially, the Church leader they followed tricked them...and, poisoned them.

Some would not have drank the poison if they knew it WAS poison, and, some drank it BECAUSE they knew it was poison...but thought the poison was going to free them to go to a better place. Some ran and hid. They were "Non-Believers".

The People's Temple of the Disciples of Christ felt bad for the non-believers who did not know the poison was going to free them to go to a better place...and tried to "save them", by tricking them into drinking it. So, yes, he was a religious leader, and, like many, was nutz...and later had them do suicide drills, etc, in preparation, etc...


So, there is a difference between "Based upon a true story" and "A true story".

It becomes especially important when you want to base actions upon the words, without knowing if the words were ever actually spoken...and, even if spoken, somehow imbued with an intrinsic value above that of other words.


So, if you want to believe there was a theoretical "first man" and "first woman", there's nothing wrong with that in of itself.

If you want to believe they were made without knowing the idea of right and wrong, by an all knowing higher power...there's nothing wrong with that either, at least morally.

If you want to believe that the higher power that made them not know right from wrong THEN ALSO made a talking snake to trick them into doing something wrong...

...that's OK too, except it does make you wonder why the higher power would set them up for failure, on purpose, like that.


If you want to believe that the higher power was angry, and punished the critters he made not know right from wrong, FOR doing something wrong...by making men work for a living and woman have painful births...

...that's OK too, but, again, it does seem odd for a higher power to act that way....


If you want to believe that later, the descendents of those initial tricked people were essentially all evil (As per the plan that god had for all of them...), and, that the higher power decided the solution would be to submerge the planet for a year, and have ONE (not-evil) FAMILY build a large boat, and gather up critters from all over the world, and food for them, before having the boat...and weather the year-long flood, and then repopulate the earth, with the descendants of the one not-evil family...

...that's not morally wrong either, assuming your OK with incest, again, and, slaughtering all life on earth to punish one species, etc....albeit, again, quite an odd way to act....and, without any evidence, at all, to support that it happened, and, with overwhelming evidence, that it did not happen...

unless you force others to agree, and, undermine actual knowledge, in an effort to support the fictitious story.


So, that's where we part ways....I am ok with you believing the story, but object to confusing our young people as to how the world actually works.

If you kept it to yourself, that would be fine. If you want young people to think that there was a global flood, when there wasn't...that's not ok.


If the Noah story was like Santa Claus, where the kids would be told the TRUTH about a religious figure when they were too old to be hoodwinked, fine, another christian joke on the young like the easter bunny, etc...or like the Jews do with Elijah drinking the wine, etc....its fairly common for various religions to have these little jokes. The problem is that some are revealed to you as a child, and some only after you're dead.





Too many people are ignorant of how the world works because they were poisoned "to save them", with fictions that undermined true knowledge, and, even worse, a contempt for the pursuit of true knowledge as a bad thing.

How many people think that the "Loch Ness Monster" might be an ocean going reptile trapped in the loch when the waters receded?

How many know that the loch didn't EXIST until it was carved by a GLACIER fairly recently in geological time, AFTER the ocean going reptiles were long gone, and, also, NOT trapping any ocean going critters at all, because it wasn't THERE when the oceans were, etc?

And so forth.



So, there IS TRUTH in the bible...moral and inspiring stories. There are also horrific examples of bronze age men saying what people said in those times, and believed in those times, and which have proved to be immoral and uninspiring, etc.

The truths do not make the stories true. "The Little Engine that Could" is an inspiring story that contains truth....but, it never happened.

"The Pokey Little Puppy" is based upon a true story, and, is also inspiring and contains truth, but, its a work of fiction.

So, the bible is a story book. You believe it happened as described, I don't.




If you say, no, wait, I don't actually believe the flood happened as described in the bible, its just a story...then we agree.

If you say, and, the entire biblical flood story, plot device to plot device, was plagiarized from Gilgamesh, and other earlier stories that pre-date it, fine, we also agree on that.

And so forth.

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Old 06-17-2015, 10:40 PM #5580
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by jdawg View Post
Human's weren't his mistake... If I child rebels against a parent, and the parent disciplines his child, is that because the parent made a mistake in his parenting?
The analogy falls apart when you consider a parent has no control over the genetics of their child, nor is a human parent omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent.

God knew his creation would fail before he created it. Therefore, he knowingly created it with a known flaw, then blamed man for the flaw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
And it comes down to this, those other cool-aid drinkers don't have Jesus. They don't have the scripture that contains many fufilled prophecies. They don't have reliable eye witness accounts to their savior.
The same could be said for Islam, or many other religions. You're fooling yourself. Quit pretending Christianity is special in all these regards.


If I may change the subject briefly to redemption:


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Old 06-18-2015, 01:01 AM #5581
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

I thought the point that THE cool-aide drinkers HAD Jesus was especially relevant...when its implied that "Cool-aide drinkers don't have Jesus".


All in all, its worrisome that things that are in no way convincing, in a normal rational way at least, are presented as "proof", then rejected because they are not proof...

..and then referred to as "well I gave you proof but you failed to accept it".


The flood is a perfect example. There is OVERWHELMING evidence that there was no flood.

That's not the same as no evidence of a flood, its evidence of conditions that mean there could not have BEEN a global flood.

IE: Evidence that there was no flood.


The religious present things like concretion or Cambrian layers, or whatever examples they can think of to try to prove a global flood happened, yet, 100%, with no exceptions, of those "proofs" was ever valid, ever.

All (100%) are flawed, misapplied principles, concepts and even the findings themselves. Many are even already KNOWN to be flawed and incorrect, and presented anyway, in hopes that the other side won't notice.


It begs the question: WHY can't ANYONE use REAL data to prove there was a global flood?

WHY is EVERY SINGLE argument FOR the flood faulty/A lie?


If it happened, WHY is is so far, IMPOSSIBLE to prove that it did?

WHY is ALL of the evidence indicating that IT DID NOT HAPPEN?



Why only lies to support, if its the truth?

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Old 06-18-2015, 01:39 AM #5582
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 06-18-2015, 02:27 AM #5583
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
The analogy falls apart when you consider a parent has no control over the genetics of their child, nor is a human parent omnipotent, omniscient, or omnipresent.

God knew his creation would fail before he created it. Therefore, he knowingly created it with a known flaw, then blamed man for the flaw.
This argument falls apart under the assumption that a finite being has the capability and understanding of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being. It affirms God's sovereignty then rejects it, it doesn't make sense.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
The same could be said for Islam, or many other religions. You're fooling yourself. Quit pretending Christianity is special in all these regards.


If I may change the subject briefly to redemption:

It is special in those regards, and more.

If you want to talk about redemption then speak, comics are fine in all but they can be taken different ways, just state your intentions.
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Old 06-18-2015, 05:47 AM #5584
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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It is special in those regards, and more.
I hope you're not saying Christianity is the only religion that has a messiah, fulfilled prophecy, or "eyewitness accounts". Because that's a categorically stupid thing to say, mister Duke.

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This argument falls apart under the assumption that a finite being has the capability and understanding of an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being.
That's battered spouse territory you're venturing into.

"I'm sure he has good reason to beat me, even if I don't always understand. I probably deserve it. I know deep down he loves me."
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