Old 04-01-2015, 01:13 AM #5393
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
If we try to force our morals and beliefs and way of life on everyone I think it will fail.
Religions world wide try and do this every. single. day.

The main reason people take issues with homeo***uality is because of the negative image religions associate with it. If none of the religions took issue with homo***uality, I highly doubt it would even be an issue.

The idea of people voting to allow/ban homo***uality when it doesn't even affect them is just stupid. You know what happens to non-homo***uals when homo***uality is allowed? NOTHING. Its not like suddenly everyone will be forced into a homo***ual relationship because a law passes. It will literally have no effect at all on non-homo***uals.

But for the homo***uals, suddenly they are no longer a repressed part of society. Suddenly, they can be open about their relationships and are allowed equal rights and opportunities to be with their SO as everyone else.

There is literally nothing to lose and so much to gain by stopping the inequality that many homo***uals still face in a supposedly "developed" country.


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Old 04-01-2015, 11:47 AM #5394
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Religions world wide try and do this every. single. day.

The main reason people take issues with homeo***uality is because of the negative image religions associate with it. If none of the religions took issue with homo***uality, I highly doubt it would even be an issue.

The idea of people voting to allow/ban homo***uality when it doesn't even affect them is just stupid. You know what happens to non-homo***uals when homo***uality is allowed? NOTHING. Its not like suddenly everyone will be forced into a homo***ual relationship because a law passes. It will literally have no effect at all on non-homo***uals.

But for the homo***uals, suddenly they are no longer a repressed part of society. Suddenly, they can be open about their relationships and are allowed equal rights and opportunities to be with their SO as everyone else.

There is literally nothing to lose and so much to gain by stopping the inequality that many homo***uals still face in a supposedly "developed" country.
Very true. I saw a clip that illustrated this, I wish I remembered where.

A man and a woman were talking in their kitchen, and the wife is saying she's not happy in the marriage, he doesn't treat her right anymore, etc...and she wants divorce...

...and the man looks at her, and says, I bet its that gay couple that moved in down the block, isn't it, they're eroding the foundation of our marriage!
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:21 PM #5395
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



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Tito and Amanda Watts were arrested over the weekend for selling “golden tickets to heaven” to hundreds of people. The couple, who sold the tickets on the street for $99.99 per ticket, told buyers the tickets were made from solid gold and each ticket reserved the buyer a spot in heaven — simply present the ticket at the pearly gates and you’re in.

"I don’t care what the police say. The tickets are solid gold… it ain’t cut up two by fours I spray painted gold. And it was Jesus who give them to me behind the KFC and said to sell them so I could get me some money to go to outer space. I met an alien named Stevie who said if I got the cash together he’d take me and my wife on his flying saucer to his planet that’s made entirely of crack cocaine. You can smoke all the crack cocaine there you want… totally free. So, try to send an innocent man to jail and see what happens. You should arrest Jesus because he’s the one that gave me the golden tickets and said to sell them. I’m willing to wear a wire and set Jesus up…"

Police said they confiscated over $10,000 in cash, five crack pipes and a baby alligator.
Couple Arrested For Selling "Golden Tickets To Heaven"
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:59 PM #5396
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

If only everyone who saw and talked to jesus had worn a wire.



Since he didn't, obviously, we assume he's just crazy.
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Old 04-03-2015, 04:24 PM #5397
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



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A Filipino penitent grimaces as he is nailed to the cross during Good Friday rituals on Friday at Cutud, Pampanga province, northern Philippines. Several Filipino devotees had themselves nailed to crosses Friday to remember Jesus Christ's suffering and death, an annual rite frowned upon by church leaders in this predominantly Roman Catholic country.
Filipino Devotees Nailed to Crosses in Good Friday Rites - US News

I'm quite bothered by the fact that the wrists are nailed. That's not how it happened (if it did).
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Old 04-03-2015, 05:38 PM #5398
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I'm quite bothered by the fact that the wrists are nailed. That's not how it happened (if it did).
What do you mean by this? In the photo the hands are nailed, not the wrists, although many think they probably nailed the wrists but I would think it varied how they did it, the Romans crucified probably endless thousands of people, and they did it in high traffic places next to roads so that many people would see it. This is partly how they maintained control. The Romam empire never had anywhere near enough military to occupy as much of the world as they did so they had to keep people afraid of them. You might say they were the first police state.

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Old 04-03-2015, 06:55 PM #5399
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post




Filipino Devotees Nailed to Crosses in Good Friday Rites - US News

I'm quite bothered by the fact that the wrists are nailed. That's not how it happened (if it did).
Yeah, the pic has the hands nailed, not the wrist.



BTW - The historical records indicated that there was no one way of doing it all. The Romans left it up to the guards typically...and, the guards could not leave until the criminal was dead...

..so, they tended to experiment with different ways of doing it, depending on how much suffering they were instructed to apply/felt like applying vs how quickly they wanted to be able to leave.

Nails COULD be in a wrist or forearm, but, generally NOT the hands, because its too easy to tear the hand to remove yourself from a nail, even with a washer (block of wood)...because the flesh is too weak there.

Essentially, iron was in short supply, and, if nails were used, they took them back out to re-use them. They tended to only nail the feet, not the hands...as tying the wrists was adequate....and it was a pain to pull nails back out.

If they nailed the feet, it was typically with the feet on either side of the post, not with the feet/toes overlapped, etc, and driven through the side of the heel into the post, with a block of wood at the head to prevent pull out, etc.

They would often smash the leg bones (Femurs typically) to speed things up, and, to make it hurt more, etc....or, if in a real rush, simply spear them, etc.


Crucifixion was not a "ceremony", it was a way of killing/torturing disobedient slaves mostly, or those they were REALLY pissed at, and making a public display of them to deter others (As Alan pointed out).

Anything to humiliate the victims was typically fine...and as long as they hung there in a fashion that satisfied the guard's boss, that's all they did.

There is no way to know who was crucified how specifically, but, the evidence is that nailed HANDS were not the norm, and, the greek translations use a word for arm that includes the hand, so, the early account translations were harder to count on...but, they tended to use a phrase that was akin to "the end of the arm" when they meant hand specifically...and, no crucifixion account used that phrasing.

So, all the paintings and Filipino tribute hangings that depict nails through HANDS are the LEAST likely to be accurate.



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Old 04-03-2015, 11:39 PM #5400
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
What do you mean by this?
Exactly that. Teej already went into it in more detail, but the general consensus is the forearms were nailed not, the wrists, which would not support the weight, and are too easily torn. (Yikes, lovely what things religion makes us consider, like how easily flesh tears no?)
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Old 04-04-2015, 02:14 AM #5401
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Is it worth it?
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:49 AM #5402
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Exactly that. Teej already went into it in more detail, but the general consensus is the forearms were nailed not, the wrists, which would not support the weight, and are too easily torn. (Yikes, lovely what things religion makes us consider, like how easily flesh tears no?)
Yes and the hands certainly couldn't support any weight at all. Anyway it really has nothing to do with religion, it was simply a method of execution used by the Romans, also used by the Persians, Carthaginians, Macedonians, and maybe others, and it was used by the Romans for about 900 years until emperor Constantine abolished crucifixion in the Roman Empire in 337. In more remote areas they didn't necessarily use a cross, sometimes just a post or sometimes even a tree, with or without nails depending on what was available or convenient at the time and place.

As Teej stated the nails were in short supply, back then nails had to be made by hand one at a time by a blacksmith and were a luxury item. Back then a sword or a knife probably cost as much as that AR15 or Glock that you might buy today. Nails used in the crucifixion of criminals were also sought as amulets and believed to have medicinal qualities. The Jews didn't practice crucifixion, Rabbinic law limited capital punishment to only 4 methods of execution: stoning, burning, strangulation, and decapitation, not much better in my opinion. There was one exception:

Alexander Jannaeus was the king of Judea from 103 BC to 76 BC, he was a high priest. He inherited the throne from his brother Aristobulus I, and married his brother's widow Salome Alexandra, she was thirteen years older than him, I guess they had Cougars way back then too, he was breaking Jewish law, a Jewish high priest was forbidden to marry a brother's widow. She became queen regnant after his death. There was a Judean Civil War that started after the conquest of Gaza by Jannaeus. the war lasted six years leaving 50,000 Judeans dead. Later when the war was over Jannaeus brought 800 of the rebels to Jerusalem along with their wives and children and had them crucified in the city of Jerusalem and had the throats of the rebel's wives and children cut before their eyes as Jannaeus ate with his concubines.

This is just the kind of horrendous evil that happens when you have some despot king or dictator with absolute power over a country. This is why I argue in favor of democracy and avoiding government having too much control over everything or government becoming too centralized. Communism, liberalism is a mental disorder and some people need to be stopped before they become a threat to our safety and freedom by making government all powerful. Government needs to be as decentralized as possible. We don't need another Hitler or Khmer Rouge etc. and don't think it can't happen, it can happen again.

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Old 04-04-2015, 12:51 PM #5403
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Oh it can most definitely happen again, and I see religion used as the lever used to incite people in some way almost every time.

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Old 04-05-2015, 04:51 PM #5404
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Humans can only understand through the science it creates around things that already exist. Science = question , not creation of those things which we observe. So can someone explain to me why everything has order? Even those things which are displaced (or disordered), eventually re-orders rather than remains in a state of chaos? No level of the "chaos theory" can be created without human random generation, and none of the models out there which do represent chaos can be found in nature. Science must embrace those things we see in nature, therefore chaotic representation can only be established by human interference.


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Old 04-05-2015, 07:56 PM #5406
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I used to defend religion as if it were the highest thing we had, now, in my latter years, I see religion as one of the big problems we have.... Not the good people who have faith and help one another in those organizations, but the organizations themselves. I'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater though, I still think there is something behind the curtain which could be viewed as "God", but the BS stuff I see in religion, how "our religion is the true one and only path to God or the afterlife, if you don't join us will go to hell or worse" etc.... That, I don't believe. Right or wrong, of course, and... of course, I don't think I'm wrong, if I did, I'd be a church goer.
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:13 PM #5407
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by OASIS Founder View Post
Humans can only understand through the science it creates around things that already exist.

Science = question , not creation of those things which we observe.

So can someone explain to me why everything has order?

Even those things which are displaced (or disordered), eventually re-orders rather than remains in a state of chaos?

No level of the "chaos theory" can be created without human random generation, and none of the models out there which do represent chaos can be found in nature.

Science must embrace those things we see in nature, therefore chaotic representation can only be established by human interference.


You have a lot of incorrect assumptions, and some statements with no actual meaning

Examples:

1) Humans can only understand through the science it creates around things that already exist.

This has no actual meaning. Humans can only understand through the science?

What is "It" in "It creates"?

"Around things that already exist" means what? Means what relative to the first two parts?

The closest guess I could make in translation, is that we understand the world through science, and, the world already exists?



2) Science = question , not creation of those things which we observe.

This is an string of phrases with no apparent connection.

Science = question is not correct, science = search for truth, using the scientific method.

"Not creation of those things which we observe" has no apparent connection to the first part.

Science is not to create things which we observe, or a question...so, no apparent meaning to that sentence either.

Why would we need to create things we can observe? I have no translation except maybe you still don't know what science is or what its for?


3) So can someone explain to me why everything has order?

I'm not sure you know what order is? "Every thing has order" is sort of a vague statement.

If you deal a hand of cards, does it have order?

If you pour a bucket of water into a hole, does the water in the shape of the hole have order?

Is there an order you see to the pattern of stars in the sky?

Is there an order to the sand on a beach?

So, the answer is that everything doesn't have order. Some things are random.

There are REASONS for things being where they are, overall...such as WHY there is sand along a shore sometimes and not others, and, every grain got exactly where it is for a reason...but, why Grain A is on the left instead of the right of Grain B was random.

In real life, science indicates that things tend towards disorder rather than order, on a large scale...in a closed system. IE: A gas will evenly disperse in a container. If something is unstable, it will tend to become more stable when the reason for the instability changes its unstable state to a more stable state. ENTROPY is the term for this phenomenon.

Of course, the EARTH is an open, not a closed system, and energy is being added by the sun, solar winds, magnetic storms, gamma radiation from the rest of the universe, and so forth...

so, SOME things will become more ordered, such as a crystal or amino acid chain, and tend to grow more complicated over time....and, SOME things will become less ordered, such as salt dissolving into ions and cations in water, etc.



4) Even those things which are displaced (or disordered), eventually re-orders rather than remains in a state of chaos?

This is counter to what really happens, in real life. If I put sugar in my coffee, and, decide I prefer my coffee black, and dump it into the sink...

The sugar will not end up back in the bowl, or, back on the plantation the sugar cane it came from was made, etc.

If I drop a dish and it breaks, generally, it stays broken.

If it rains on the ocean, the fresh water disperses into the salt water, diluting it....and so on and so forth.


5) No level of the "chaos theory" can be created without human random generation, and none of the models out there which do represent chaos can be found in nature.

This statement has no real meaning, because it seems that you don't actually know chaos theory, and don't realize it was derived from nature, and, it is PRIMARY means of explaining what we see in real life.

IE: ALL the models that predict chaos represent nature. BTW - Chaos in mathematical terms (Chaos Theory) is not the same as the word chaos in common usage. IE: In Jurassic Park, Jeff Goldbloom, who was supposed to be an expert in it, used the term incorrectly, and, described it incorrectly...implying that chaos theory essentially just says every thing will be chaotic.

So, weather predictions for example, rely heavily on chaos theory to help predict it.


6) Science must embrace those things we see in nature, therefore chaotic representation can only be established by human interference.

This also has no real meaning.

"Science must embrace those things we see in nature" doesn't mean anything...science studies, not embraces things.

"therefore chaotic representation can only be established by human interference" actually has no meaning.

It says a representation can only be established by human interference...which is meaningless.

Putting the two phrases together with a "therefore" further dilutes any meaning, because there is no connection between the two thoughts.

I can't even translate this into a guessed meaning....there's nothing to work with.


So, we have no statements that are true, and conclusions referring to the incorrect statements, with most of the words being strings of disconnected phrases with no actual meaning in of themselves.


Perhaps you can try to re-write what you are trying to say?





NOTE: This is not a personal attack, etc...its a criticism of what you wrote, in the literary sense. IE: About what you wrote, not you.

You can be wonderful, and this could simply be a poor example of your wonderfulness.

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Old 04-06-2015, 02:57 PM #5408
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Where does consciousness fit into the atheistic naturalism worldview?

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In his most recent book, Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False, eminent philosopher Thomas Nagel concludes that Darwinian materialism has failed as a comprehensive scientific explanation for reality. Nagel rejects both reductionistic and emergent physical explanations for consciousness, stating that “consciousness is the most conspicuous obstacle to a comprehensive naturalism that relies only on the resources of physical science.”3 An ardent atheist with no predilection toward theism, Nagel also states: “On a purely materialist understanding of biology, consciousness would have to be regarded as a tremendous and inexplicable extra brute fact about the world.”4

Thomas Nagel is a notable academic scholar at New York University and an authority on the philosophy of mind. His words carry weight. Concerning the grand evolutionary theory that purports to explain all life through solely natural means (appealing to the workings of physics, chemistry, and biology), Nagel declares: “It is an assumption governing the scientific project rather than a well-confirmed scientific hypothesis.”5 Later he says about materialistic Darwinism: “I find this view antecedently unbelievable—a heroic triumph of ideological theory over common sense.”6 And he insists: “I would be willing to bet that the present right-thinking consensus will come to seem laughable in a generation or two…”7
Reasons To Believe : Explaining the Mind-Related Features of the Cosmos
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