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Old 03-06-2015, 03:14 AM #5281
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Here's a succinct summary of the basics that seem to follow what has been summed up above: http://a1.img.mobypicture.com/2d0be3...75b9b_view.jpg


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Old 03-06-2015, 03:35 AM #5282
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Yep, my great, great, great,+++++++ Grand daddies bible, literally, he put it together. But as one of King James descendents, I think he left a lot out he shouldn't have. Do I really know? My sister traced linage that far back for the family, but you can't really know without DNA tests and a recent article shows the royal blood chain was broken in the past anyway, someone was having a good time with another persons wife. I'm not sure which side of that break of the family tree I'm on. Ultimately it doesn't matter, go back far enough and we are all from the same family.


PS: Feynman is one of my few hero's and feel the same way, I know nothing for certain, I only know my own thoughts but I can approximate the hell out of a lot of things.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

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Old 03-06-2015, 07:43 AM #5283
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Also Pi R is making a good point with the dark matter discussion. Some of you are very hostile to the idea of believing in a God you cannot see but can observe the effects of, and you demand undeniable proof or a physical manifestation of God himself to appear before you.
Yet the idea of dark matter you're so willing to accept and don't show even a fraction of the hostility or skepticism you put towards Jesus.
This is a terrible comparison Duke. Exactly what effects of god can be observed that could have no natural explanation? There is actual evidence of dark matter that is testable and can make predictions that are confirmed with mathematics, physics and direct observations. There is no evidence other than anecdotal personal experience which can never be confirmed and weak philosophical arguments that are full of logical fallacies for the existence of the Christian god.
I myself have never asked for nor expect "proof" only evidence that can be tested and confirmed.
It is also incredibly hypocritical of you to denounce other spiritual beliefs such as Native American spirituality when you have absolutely no more evidence other than an man written text of second hand accounts for happenings as extraordinary as shape shifting into animal spirits. I find it telling when a person feels their beliefs are somehow more legitimized because of popular consensus taken on nothing more than faith.

Regarding people hostility to god but not dark matter. Peoples justifiable belief in dark matter isn't causing scientists to strap bombs on themselves and murder women and children, continue to spread aids across Africa by demonizing condoms, deny climate change, retard our society by rejecting science and teaching kids fairy tales about a 4000 year old earth and dinosaurs walking around with humans, mutilate children genitals, stop stem cell research that could give a person their ability to walk again, and lets not forget the centuries of torture and slaughter of millions and millions of people. Your are right we are hostile to your beliefs and have every right to call them into question because it is those beliefs that are the justification for all these despicable acts by the faithful and affect every single person on earth everyday. The day your beliefs stop affecting me and the world is the day I will stop caring about them. until then it is Wrong to think your'e somehow above be called out on why you accept these beliefs when they effect us all. You want freedom for religion and have it but what about those that want freedom from the plethora of negative effects and human suffering of your religion?
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Old 03-06-2015, 11:21 AM #5284
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by nwfreefly View Post
...You want freedom for religion and have it but what about those that want freedom from the plethora of negative effects and human suffering of your religion?
As the ages pass, if we can keep from destroying one another, I believe religion will evolve into something much more meaningful, yet simple. I think the evolution will be in the direction of understanding the interconnectedness among living beings and the universe as true spirituality and though such, greater acceptance of one another knowing none of us are an island, each of us affecting the whole in subtle to profound ways, depending upon the energy we put into living our lives. I believe love is more than a concept, that it is real thing within consciousness and above anything else we could do for ourselves as well as others, love is of the highest possible attainment. That one day we will abandon our old religious ways and live spiritual lives with one another for our greater good.

Today, there are those who would prefer to control us, divide us and through that manipulate us into serving them alone, instead of the whole as we also serve ourselves through doing so. This is the fight between light and darkness, serving one another through love or being influenced or forced to serve others through their own greed, something this world has a long way to go before we become a free world which builds upon humanity to accomplish great things, instead of taking from so many to uplift a few. I believe we should have the freedom to obtain wealth, but not through a system which is stacked up against the many as our current banking systems work to serve them, or to serve corporations at such an unfair advantage that real prosperity which could otherwise spread through all levels of society cannot happen.

When we spiritually mature, I believe we can have such a world and naturally, this would be a world without the need for war which alone would change the world into a more evenly prosperous one.

Now doesn't all of the above sound like a lot of new age tripe? It does today, but I hope our world will become more like it if we can get rid of so much corruption in our governments and with our banking system which are enslaving us all. I'm ready for some change, a revolution of the people to a new level of fairness and prosperity, a true new world order, but not the one the rich were planning. To make it, we need to start coming together, as a good start by not allowing ourselves to be separated by religions, instead joined through a basic sense of good for one another.

OK, spiritual, anti-religion, government and corporate corruption rant stops, thank you for stopping by, may I offer you a coupon good at any McDonalds for a free cup of hot coffee? If I could get a movement going as its leader, I could make some real coin out of this, maybe some fast food chain might sponsor me to spread the word and store coupons for them at the same time? Yea! That's the ticket, never mind equality and love for one another, we all know that's a fairy tale. I wanna be rich! With enough money all of my desires can be met, one way or another, right? That's were we can go so wrong as a civilization, individuality sets us up to fend for ourselves, I mean, it's me living this life, not you, I need for me, not you... and that's all well and good, the natural order of things but at the same time, I think we can slowly rise above it, but not too fast, it can't happen that way. Our greatest potential as human beings has yet to shine, we are still in our infancy with one another, having not found better ways to solve our international or religious conflicts except through either killing or forced manipulations, either way war through different means. Maybe it will take a full collapse of this non-sense before we can come to do things right.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

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Old 03-06-2015, 12:31 PM #5285
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
As the ages pass, if we can keep from destroying one another, I believe religion will evolve into something much more meaningful, yet simple.

I think the evolution will be in the direction of understanding the interconnectedness among living beings and the universe as true spirituality and though such, greater acceptance of one another knowing none of us are an island, each of us affecting the whole in subtle to profound ways, depending upon the energy we put into living our lives.

I believe love is more than a concept, that it is real thing within consciousness and above anything else we could do for ourselves as well as others, love is of the highest possible attainment. That one day we will abandon our old religious ways and live spiritual lives with one another for our greater good.

Today, there are those who would prefer to control us, divide us and through that manipulate us into serving them alone, instead of the whole as we also serve ourselves through doing so.

This is the fight between light and darkness, serving one another through love or being influenced or forced to serve others through their own greed, something this world has a long way to go before we become a free world which builds upon humanity to accomplish great things, instead of taking from so many to uplift a few.

I believe we should have the freedom to obtain wealth, but not through a system which is stacked up against the many as our current banking systems work to serve them, or to serve corporations at such an unfair advantage that real prosperity which could otherwise spread through all levels of society cannot happen.

When we spiritually mature, I believe we can have such a world and naturally, this would be a world without the need for war which alone would change the world into a more evenly prosperous one.

Now doesn't all of the above sound like a lot of new age tripe? It does today, but I hope our world will become more like it if we can get rid of so much corruption in our governments and with our banking system which are enslaving us all. I'm ready for some change, a revolution of the people to a new level of fairness and prosperity, a true new world order, not the one the rich were planning.

I hear you, but, yeah, some of it is nice, conceptually, in a Miss America contestant answer sort of way.



I agree that religion will CONTINUE to evolve, and, eventually WILL be quite simple, and, not require god or the supernatural as its basis.

You are correct that, ideally, this evolution will be more about learning to love each other and appreciate what we have here, for what it is.

Love though, as much as I love it, is already an evolved phenomenon. We're hard wired to feel it, just as we are hard wired to feel anger, or use the muscles we use to smile, etc. If you watch elephants, or birds, etc...(Wildlife), you'll see the same darn thing....mating rituals, courtship, and, even mating for life.

Love doesn't exist as a force any more than evil or good do.

WE create these things, by our ACTS and thoughts.

There is no good in the world unless someone DOES good. There is no evil in this world unless someone DOES something evil.

Even what we CONSIDER to be good and evil is subjective.

For example, if killing was evil, as an absolute, are all predatory animals evil?

WHY would it be evil to kill an animal, and not a plant?


-------------
WHY do we consider it OK to eat things if they are stupid enough, but if they seem smarter, its wrong to eat them?

Plants are pretty dumb....and, most people are OK eating them....but, WHY is it "OK"?

Plants DO communicate, they DO react to their environment, they do warn others of their kind with chemical signals when under attack, such as to give their buddies time to generate counter measures, etc.

Plankton try to swim away from danger (They are mostly just drifting...until the danger arrives), so, they are trying to save themselves...they are aware of danger for example.

And so forth...HOW sentient does something have to BE for us NOT to be OK killing it?

------------

As for your idea that there are all of these conspiracies to control and divide us...

Its just human nature doing what it does....magnified by how we "clumped".


So, the old saying about "The Rich get Richer, and the Poor get Children" is pretty accurate for the most part.

The older society gets, the more stratified it tends to become.

Its not because of a conspiracy, its simple logistics.


If an ancestor was in the right place at the right time, and ended up sitting pretty with a lot of farm land, or resources, or was charismatic and creative, etc...and ended up wealthy, his progeny get a nice boost from his success.

Lets face it, if you start your life worried mostly about if you'll get enough to eat, you will simply not have what it takes to build an empire.

SOME people are either more gifted and/or lucky, and climb out of that morass, but, most people are "average", pretty much by definition.

The REASON most early philosophers and scientists, etc, were from wealthy families, or at least patronized by wealthy families, etc...is because THAT meant they could STOP worrying about where there next meal would come from, and START worrying about where WE ALL came from, etc.


"It takes money to make money"

So, you might be a brilliant investor...but, have no money...so, no one would ever know...including yourself.

You might be a MORON at investing, but have so much wealth, it doesn't matter...you will always have enough anyway.

So, society starts to stratify...naturally, because those who have money can make MORE money...and those with no resources simply work on survival.

Sure, some rich guys eff up and become poor guys, and visa versa for some starting poor...but, again, on AVERAGE, the boosted people do better.

So, the better off you start, the easier it is to rise higher...that's straight forward.


OK, now lets say you have a company, and, you're making scads of money making paper clips....you have giant paper clip factories all over the world.

You see companies and institutions starting to talk about going paperless.


WHAT do you think you're going to do?

The bottom line is that your business is threatened, and, your empire might collapse, as your factories need certain minimum volumes of orders to be worth paying all those employees and keep expensive machines running, etc.

You will most likely:

1) See what other clip companies are doing in response...perhaps form a lobby to insist on paper back-ups, etc.

2) Consider diversification, if they go paperless, is there a new technology/demand that could be met, where the existing resources can be re-aimed at the new emerging market demographic?

3) Form a secret cabal of like-minded industrialists to create fear of paperless systems and a religious need for paperclips.


Of these, #1 or 2 is most likely, with the potential to sell off everything and retire as an unnamed option.

#3 is sort of a stretch, and, would most likely be satified by option #1 anyway, organizationally.


IE: Companies and rich people are essentially just PEOPLE. They have needs and desires just like anyone else. They are unlikely to join forces with others for global goals unless they have political agendas that are part of the above needs and desires.

Their goals would not typically include making most people too poor to buy their products. They WANT a strong economy and job growth, etc...its good for business.

They may be wrong about how to DO that...but that's another story.


So, there would be no impetus for the rich to make others poor, its poor business practice.

They WILL of course encourage things that make THEM more $...say, only a 10% tax on investment income...instead of it being taxed as all other income...less regulation of their industries, and so forth.

----------

The poor grow as a class because they start with nothing, and, with interest, that earns them nothing...so, they don't get ahead.

The laws are going to be lobbied and paid for by those who want to make MORE money, and, that typically means loop holes for Mr Warbucks, not Mr Warsucks.

THAT will increase the stratification process even further for example.

So, its not so much a conspiracy but a trend that is naturally derived by human nature.



Starving people see the rich as having more than they need, and, why can't THEY have some of it? Its related to why some normally honest people WILL steal from a large corporation who THEY SEE as "being able to afford the loss", but not steal from their neighbor away on vacation, etc.

Its how socialism/communism gets its toe-hold in society...the poor want some of what the rich have. If ENOUGH poor people are fed up, of not getting fed, they can revolt and simply TAKE the wealth....

...and the most natural tendency is at first to then just divvy it up, and say everyone gets the same slice of the pie.

Later, again, based upon human nature...SOME people will realize that how much they do won't get them any more than doing nothing, if everyone gets the same no matter what....and, productivity progressively goes down the flusher.

So, a black market always develops so "People CAN get ahead", and they CAN get "some more for doing more"...and, once again, the ambitious and driven WILL historically claw their way to wealth. It may not be the same rich guy clawing his way back up...but, a previously repressed guy who has suddenly found a niche to exploit.

That starts the stratification over again...the average person floats upon his own level of competence/drive, and other sink down lower, while others rise higher....

...and then THEIR progeny have more of a boost, do better, and the stratification process is once again, off and running.


So, a "collapse" is not a "Cure". Collapses happen over and over again, and, the end game plays the same each time...its just how it works.

SOME people want more, and, some of THEM will get it.

Unless you want a "Handicapper General" in charge of making sure no one is better than anyone else, etc...some simply WILL BE.

Their PROGENY may be no better, but, they inherit the magic boost that WILL give them a better chance of success, even if only due to their ability to survive larger losses, etc.


So, I think overall, society IS becoming more civilized. Sure, there are pockets of whacky and dangerous exceptions...but, on AVERAGE, the world IS becoming a more and more civilized place.

It will take a LOT of time for the process to continue, and, the whacko's/throw-backs WILL continually be a wrench in the works as they can MORE EASILY push their agendas DUE TO the increase in civility.


IE: If 99% of society refuses to fight, and believes only in peace at all costs, they will be ruled by the 1% that WILL fight.


So, if you are OK beheading people to make your point...and you will terrorize the sheeple into doing what you want to save their heads/preserve the peace...you will end up getting what you want.

Now, sheeple DO, historically, evolve into wolves if things go too far...ask the Romans about the Goths for example, but, that is typically a short sighted solution to an immediate problem...and as soon as the oppressors have been defeated, a new oppressor is waiting to take advantage of the "new peace", and so forth.


So, on average, we're all making progress, and, by the time our iron core loses too much rotation to maintain our protective magnetic shield, or the sun expands and engulfs us...I'm HOPING that we've got our act together enough to be able to colonize new planets w/o spreading rot to the rest of the universe, etc.


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Old 03-06-2015, 01:56 PM #5286
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Not to miff anyone who is staunchly religious, but I think this man says what the problem is for too many people:


Wisdom.

Yeah, worship of the religion and its trappings instead of of god, is what he's talking about.

I see more of that among the religious than true piety.

My priest, when I was a kid, I think was truly pious. Despite the national tendencies, when we would go on overnight camping trips, etc, he was more like a scoutmaster and not a whacko, etc.

Sure, he spoke about god and so forth, but there WAS a perspective, and, right and wrong were more important that observing the trappings.

OK, so taking me fishing, camping, etc...made me (and the other kids) a captive audience he could preach to...but, frankly, I liked him, and thought he was a great guy.

I saw others though, and they DID think, typically, that it was CRITICAL that you be in that pew on Sunday morning...but, they had no problem lying cheating and stealing the rest of the week.

They could quote scriptures left and right, and say so and so is going to hell because they didn't or did do this or that...but THEY did as they pleased.

I saw still others who didn't do anything wrong I knew of, but their given reasons were to adhere to practices that would get them to heaven, not about "because the right thing is the right thing"...or, well, if I sleep with that other woman, it would hurt my wife terribly...

IE: Not sleeping around because its a sin, not because it is unfair and hurtful.

And so forth.

So, the speaker wearing the collar in the vid is correct about that problem.

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Old 03-06-2015, 02:09 PM #5287
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 03-06-2015, 02:11 PM #5288
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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What?
He was just greeting your alter ego.

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Old 03-06-2015, 02:12 PM #5289
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
He was just greeting your alter ego.

Dude, I swear that is not me.

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Originally Posted by LoveDemBurningLAZERZ View Post
Teej Jesus was a man but men are not gods. And Jesus did resurrect cause when Mary and the other woman that was with her saw that the body was missing and then they saw Jesus. And if the body was missing and then they saw Jesus that means that when he resurrected he must have resurrected and was in flesh again (I mean God can do anything) and in the Bible it said he ascended up into Heaven he must have ascended while he was still in the flesh but anyway if u want to know my religion it's all based on God and of course the KJV Bible which is the closest and truest translation to the original scrolls from the Bible days well that's what I have to say
Do you even read the bible because Jesus was God in HUMAN form! How ignorant can you be?

Last edited by USAbro; 03-06-2015 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 03-06-2015, 02:14 PM #5290
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Dude, I swear that is not me.
LOL

He might as well be though.
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Old 03-06-2015, 02:17 PM #5291
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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LOL

He might as well be though.
Just about
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Old 03-06-2015, 02:18 PM #5292
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Dude, I swear that is not me.



Do you even read the bible because Jesus was God in HUMAN form! How ignorant can you be?
Well, lets see:

What does "God in human form" mean?

God wearing a meat puppet?

God himself, turned into a man, so he's NOT a god at that time?

If god is in human form, on earth, as a man, is there a god too at that time?



If god is still "up in heaven, running things as usual, etc...", who or what is parading around in sandals down on earth?


Can you explain that in some detail?
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Old 03-06-2015, 02:26 PM #5293
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

No Teej God made Lucifer Which was a Angel but Lucifer thought "how come God gets all that power and I can't have it?" Then he gathered a lot more Angels to follow him in which God did not like (God didn't like that Lucifer had a mind set of I'm gonna be better than God. So God cast them down from Heaven and called him satan and the other Angels that were following Lucifer Demons or Devils.

Teej u said: If god is still "up in heaven, running things as usual, etc...", who or what is parading around in sandals down on earth? His Angels are. Gods Angels are His Holy messengers. But sense God can do anything (cuz He's a Spirit) He can do everything at once.

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Old 03-06-2015, 02:30 PM #5294
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Well, lets see:

What does "God in human form" mean?

God wearing a meat puppet?

God himself, turned into a man, so he's NOT a god at that time?

If god is in human form, on earth, as a man, is there a god too at that time?



If god is still "up in heaven, running things as usual, etc...", who or what is parading around in sandals down on earth?


Can you explain that in some detail?
What I mean was, he is God, but at the same time, he can feel pain, and he had to deal with the same bodily issues as us. Sweat, pain, etc, temptations.
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Old 03-06-2015, 02:31 PM #5295
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by LoveDemBurningLAZERZ View Post
No Teej God made Lucifer Which was a Angel but Lucifer thought "how come God gets all that power and I can't have it?" Then he gathered a lot more Angels to follow him in which God did not like (God didn't like that Lucifer had a mind set of I'm gonna be better than God. So God cast them down from Heaven and called him satan and the other Angels that were following Lucifer Demons or Devils.
That's not "no", that's "yes" btw.



IE: God made Satan/Lucifer and other angels and he made them immortal and with supernatural powers.

Why did god make evil creatures immortal and with magic powers?

Why would god make good creatures that were immortal and with magic powers.

You asked why would god DO that...remember?


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Old 03-06-2015, 02:33 PM #5296
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
What I mean was, he is God, but at the same time, he can feel pain, and he had to deal with the same bodily issues as us. Sweat, pain, etc, temptations.
So, did he die, really? And, if he did, who brought him back?

If TRULY DEAD, you can't bring YOURSELF BACK.
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