Old 03-05-2015, 09:19 PM #5265
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Hi USABro
Lol, guess I'm not the only one that thought that.


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Old 03-05-2015, 10:12 PM #5266
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Lol, guess I'm not the only one that thought that.
Nope.
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Old 03-05-2015, 10:23 PM #5267
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by LoveDemBurningLAZERZ View Post
Teej Everything ur saying sounds like ur trying to say that everything isn't a relegeion. Also Jesus could have either been born in a stable or a cave we really don't know
No, I'm mostly saying science is not a religion, its a process to seek the truth about how things work.

I'm also saying that a hypothesis is not the same as "Faith" as used in a religious context...

..Because faith MEANS that you believe something no matter what, even with no evidence, or with contradictory evidence, and, science doesn't.

Science as a process, requires you TO evaluate evidence, and to follow it logically to deduce the working of the universe.

Religion TELLS you what to believe, and to have FAITH that its true, no matter what else you see or hear tells you.



IE: You don't NEED faith to believe something if there are REASONS to believe it.

Science requires skepticism, not faith. Religion requires faith, not skepticism.




And you are 100% correct, the bible says it was a stable/barn with animals, etc, but, sure, he could have been born in cave I suppose, or a house where his mom and dad lived, at a midwife's place, or whatever.

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Old 03-05-2015, 10:35 PM #5268
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by LoveDemBurningLAZERZ View Post
No cyparagon why would He be his own grandpa. But u should check out Ray Stevens "I'm my own grandpa" video it's funny.

God is a Spirit

and Jesus was a man

but Jesus was all of Gods characteristics put in flesh by God

so that I guess he could become physical to us so that we may be able to see him.

But God wrapped Himself in flesh which is Jesus and if Jesus is pretty much God in Flesh that means that God and Jesus are the same.
You have an interesting religion.



OK:

1) You believe there is a god.

2) You believe that Jesus was a man.

3) You believe that Jesus and god are the same thing.


The above works with the biblical version of God creating man in his own image...or, man creating god in his own image, as a mirror WOULD show both the same in that case, etc.


So, logically, if Jesus and God are the same, and, Jesus was a man..

then:

a) God is Man

or

b) Man is God

or

GOD died for our sins, and, therefore, god is dead, because if you can bring YOURSELF back, you were not REALLY dead.

or

A Man died who was god, and, if he's god, then, he stayed dead too, because if he REALLY died, he could not bring HIMSELF back.

or

He slapped on some flesh, let IT "die" for your sins, but, didn't bring the FLESH back...so, ITS still dead too.



Do I understand your personal religion?




I wasn't sure if god wearing a fleshy Jesus suit was appropriate or not as yet another possibility...?

Feel free to explain what you really believe if the above is off base.

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Old 03-05-2015, 10:39 PM #5269
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

http://i.imgur.com/idTEI8u.jpg?1

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Old 03-05-2015, 10:48 PM #5270
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Not to miff anyone who is staunchly religious, but I think this man says what the problem is for too many people:

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Old 03-05-2015, 11:19 PM #5271
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Teej Jesus was a man but men are not gods. And Jesus did resurrect cause when Mary and the other woman that was with her saw that the body was missing and then they saw Jesus. And if the body was missing and then they saw Jesus that means that when he resurrected he must have resurrected and was in flesh again (I mean God can do anything) and in the Bible it said he ascended up into Heaven he must have ascended while he was still in the flesh but anyway if u want to know my religion it's all based on God and of course the KJV Bible which is the closest and truest translation to the original scrolls from the Bible days well that's what I have to say
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:47 PM #5272
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Not to miff anyone who is staunchly religious, but I think this man says what the problem is for too many people:

Meanwhile I think most atheists feel this way...

http://i.imgur.com/6KoG3Og.jpg

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Old 03-06-2015, 12:18 AM #5273
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Teej Jesus was a man but men are not gods.)
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Old 03-06-2015, 12:27 AM #5274
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

What? Why would God make ppl gods that would have the same power or more than him? He wouldn't do that

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Old 03-06-2015, 01:10 AM #5275
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well Teej Faith could also mean trust
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Old 03-06-2015, 01:19 AM #5276
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by LoveDemBurningLAZERZ View Post
Teej Jesus was a man but men are not gods.




And Jesus did resurrect cause when Mary and the other woman that was with her saw that the body was missing and then they saw Jesus.


And if the body was missing and then they saw Jesus that means that when he resurrected he must have resurrected and was in flesh again (I mean God can do anything) and in the Bible it said he ascended up into Heaven he must have ascended while he was still in the flesh but anyway

if u want to know my religion it's all based on God and of course the KJV Bible which is the closest and truest translation to the original scrolls from the Bible days well that's what I have to say


LOL

OK, I'll start with the KJB, which you obviously have not studied in any depth, as you refer to it as the closest and truest translation to the original scrolls.

The KING JAMES VERSION, was, um, KING JAMES version.

He was being crowned, and, was inheriting a rather sticky political situation, and, there were MANY rival religious orders jockeying for positions of power and influence.

He wanted to have his staff edit a version of the bible that would include aspects of all the prior bibles, but, emphasize duty to your government/king, and the majesty of the king, divine right, etc.

He hired a LOT of biblical scholars, and, they spent a LOT of time writing that version of the bible.

As far as the WRITING goes, while no where NEAR the most true to the original writings, which, frankly, if you've ever read them (You did not, or you would know this), the KJV is perhaps the most beautifully worded bible.

The WRITING is for the most part, on a different plane than other versions.

The power of the words is a huge improvement, as literature.

Certain phrases, such as the surface of the waters in later versions, and the face of the waters in older versions, were due to the concept of a "surface" being a very technical term in ancient times, and, they would say face for things like that.

They changed things to read better, and to sound better when read in sermons, etc.

They also needed to damn the Jews, make subservience a desirable trait, make the kings godly and god kingly, and a few other emphasized items their boss requested, etc.

So, even in the early 1600's it was recognized as a bit of an abortion as far as biblical accuracy...with several passages being totally botched they didn't even mean to, etc...due to errors in translation not being caught when they used parts of prior bible version, such as the Geneva etc....which were infamous for THEIR translation errors.

These were ALL biblical scholars btw, the top of their game back then...but this was an enormous project, and, the writing was done by committees working in teams (They called the teams companies...a new term back then).



----

So, later bibles worked on by those better versed in some of the more ancient languages, had better luck, but, the KJV had some parts that sounded like Jacobean Google Translations.

2 Corinthians 6:11-13:

O yee Corinthians, our mouth is open vunto you, our heart is enlarged.

Yee are not straitened in vs, but yee are straightened in your owne bowels.

Nowe for a recompense in the same, (I speake as vnto my children) be ye also inlarged.


The above is from the KJV, circa 1611.


Now, if the KJV translators had a better idea of what they were doing, the gist of it would have been Paul asking the Corinthians, as a father might ask his children, to be more open with him, since he feels he had been open with them.

My slightly newer version (1984?) uses about the same wording, bowels and all...just change the v to u and standardize the spelling a bit...and its the same as it was in 1611 or so.

Ironically, after spending many years writing the KJV bible, even the writers didn't use it, as King James was losing his hold on the country, and, there was much political turmoil....and they mostly used the Geneva bible...including taking it on the Mayflower to the USA, etc.

-----

As the early Americans were fundamentalist Christians, who also rejected the catholic authority, eventually, were gradually drawn to the very nature of the KJB and its authoritarian emphasis.

Which is why the KJB was the one in use to facilitate the burning of witches, etc...as it provided the biblical justification to obey the government and, well, burn witches, etc.

Its the best bible to use when subjugating a potentially unruly populace.

Once established here, and, in England for the same eventual reasons...it grew a much larger following than it had ever had when it first came out.

And, for sermons, the power and beauty of the language (No one reads the botched parts any way...) were far more effective than the more boring words in the older bibles. (Which were mostly also botched in those sections, no one really knew WTF those ancient guys were talking about it seems, so they just made stuff up as best they could).

The main problem in biblical translations/edits, is that the original writing might have been written in languages no longer spoken...and then translated into OTHER languages that were no longer spoken.

So, the old testament was in Hebrew, ancient Hebrew, not modern Hebrew. (Think old English vs modern English, etc..), and in Greek (old Greek...), and then we get to parts in Aramaic, and so forth.

Most of the translations did not even START for about 300 years AD, LONG after anyone who was there could provide any clues....especially clues for the old testament stuff, which were already thousands of years old THEN.

Its tough to do, as you might have something in Greek, that used to be in Hebrew, then translated to Aramaic, then to Latin...and then back to Greek (And all you have LEFT is that LAST Greek version...and god only knows what it said originally)

To FURTHER compound the confusion, there was a bit of a scramble for status, so, pretty much EVERYONE said they knew Jesus, was with him all the time, they were drinking buddies, etc....sort of like how many people in the US have "George Washington Slept Here" signs. (George didn't live long enough to HAVE slept every where he "slept", even if all he did was sleep his whole life).



So, the biblical scholars found that many of the Apostles SAID they were with Jesus at this miracle or that, etc, but, the stories never jived...even when things were supposed to happen were impossible.


The "apostles" had no IDEA they'd be famous thousands of years later, THEY were just fellow rebel Jews fighting along side Jesus against the Romans....and, their exploits were edited to help form a religion that promoted subservience and obedience to authority....by mostly making up exploits that were copied from other prior culture's myth's. Walking on water, wine from water, healing the sick, washing feet, flesh and blood as stuff to eat and drink, dying and being resurrected, and so and so forth, straight from the pages of previous cultures.

Of course, some of the "apostles" never met Jesus, but they spent a lot of time working for the Romans, working with them to create a religion that would defuse the fury of the zealot Jews in open rebellion, and morph it into a religion of peace and love and obedience to authority.

So, over time, the Jewish rebels were magically transformed into apostles spreading the word of god and love of Jesus.

It was MASTERFUL!

The Catholic church invented the term "propaganda" for what they called this program. It worked extremely well, and, kings who needed to subjugate conquered peoples and/or keep their own subjects in line/calm the barbarian hordes....found Christianity was the best opiate they had ever seen for the people.

According to some remaining historical records, some of the "apostles" were called "the liars" according to town records they passed through spreading the propaganda....those would be the ones working for the Romans.



So, from what you said, I will glean that you believe in god, and, just found out, today, that the bible someone told you was the most accurate and true to the original writings, was not even close to that.

Don't feel bad though, the REAL earliest writings were about rebellion and fighting the Romans, and preserving Judaism. I think part of where they raided the market was edited to overturning the Jewish money lender's tables and so forth...coming with a sword and turning children against their parents, brothers against brothers, and some stuff like that did slip through too with just a little tweaking.

The Church burned most of the stuff that was too damning to the new religion, and killed or banished/excommunicated the few who wanted it included....so there are mere scraps left.

Even almost all of the later stuff where they had not yet decided if Jesus was mortal or not, was god in the flesh, or, merely choosing to appear that way to us, etc...pre-virgin birth versions, etc...the clergy who had those writings from a few hundred years AD were also killed, etc, and the writings burned.

So, almost NO ONE knows ANYTHING about THEIR OWN bible's derivation, edits, revisions, etc. Essentially, its like a movie "inspired by a book" that was "based upon" a true story, that didn't actually happen.


Yours is a very popular, very inaccurate bible with, what many feel, is the best wording to read at sermons.

There are, of course, NO "accurate" bibles, or they would describe a dedicate Jewish Zealot fighting to preserve fundamentalist Judaism, in open rebellion against the Roman Empire. Warfare, guerrilla raids, knifings in back alleys, etc, not washing people's feet and healing the sick, would have been the accurate writings.

If you want the more "accurate" version after the Jesus the Fighter was tamed to be Jesus the meek, and, after the story was edited and massaged so as to attempt to create a new religion, then, you'd really need to learn a lot of ancient languages, fly to the Vatican, and start going over their manuscripts.


Remember, every word in your bible came from the Catholic Church. They had possession of all known materials, and, there WAS no other church/organization called christianity except them back then.

They even managed to get a hold of the dead sea scrolls when they were found, and would not let ANYONE look at them except them, for many many many years...until essentially court ORDERS forced them to allow others to see them, and, by that point, they had managed to "accidentally damage" parts that seemed to contain things they didn't want anyone to see.

So, if you are a "Christian", and did what Jesus wanted you to, you'd be a very orthodox JEW, like him.


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Old 03-06-2015, 01:25 AM #5277
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Most of ur stuff I didn't read. I think it's called King James Version is cuz he wanted a Bible he could understand that was in his language so he got ppl to translate it for him.

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Old 03-06-2015, 01:43 AM #5278
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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What? Why would God make ppl gods that would have the same power or more than him? He wouldn't do that
It is not our place to question the mind of god.



On your line of thought though...

Didn't god make SATAN?

Is not Satan who god is FIGHTING WITH for CONTROL OF THE EARTH and OUR VERY SOULS?


So, sure, god WOULD make other immortal beings.

Heck, in the bible, its says that the only reason Adam and Eve were NOT immortal, is because God made a TALKING SNAKE convince EVE to eat from the tree of KNOWLEDGE...

...so, she had no knowledge, no knowledge of good or evil, because, that's what that apple was supposed to GIVE her...


So, God makes her stupid and ignorant, with no sense of right or wrong, and, sends a taking snake to trick her into GETTING knowledge and, well, GOD WON! The snake think worked, and god tricked even into taking a bite, and, giving Adam a bite too.

Then, AFTER they have some apple, they THEN realize that being naked is a sin...and, that they disobeyed god, which, they NOW know is WRONG.


As he had TOLD them not to eat the apple as if they did "Then they would surely die"....which they promptly did, dropping stone cold dead ~ a thousand years later.

If they DIDN'T eat the apple, they would have been IMMORTAL, like the angels and Satan, and all of god's other supernatural creations.


So, yeah, god DOES do stuff like that....all the time.
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Old 03-06-2015, 01:52 AM #5279
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Most of ur stuff I didn't read. I think it's called King James Version is cuz he wanted a Bible he could understand that was in his language so he got ppl to translate it for him.

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Nope, not even close.

Its written in a version of English that NO ONE EVER SPOKE, EVER.

He wanted it to sound "majestic"....so they made up the language to sound better.

There are books about the writing of the King James Version.

A good lay version is "God's Secretaries" by Adam Nicolson.

He puts the parts he writes about into story form, so it will be easier for you to read it w/o it being like a textbook. He really loves the KJV, and it shows in how he writes about it.

As he's a giant fan of the bible, its not a version that slams it, or is anti-religion or anything, he reveres it...but does talk about what went into it in decent detail, and, if you read it, you'd get an idea of just how big a deal this endeavor was, and why it was so hard.

Its a bible friendly book that will give you a big insight into the early 1600's and the bible itself.

I recommend it for Christians to read due to its lay nature and its reverence for the bible.
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Old 03-06-2015, 02:03 AM #5280
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Well Teej Faith could also mean trust
Well, it depends on how fast and loose you want words to be.

Again, science is a process, not a belief system.

The answers science gives are not cast in stone, they are attempts to find the truth, and, when exploring the UNknown, it can be very hard to pin down EXACTLY what is going on...we just try to get as close as we can.

The difference between religion is you have to have faith, or, if you prefer, TRUST your religion...and they TELL you the answers.

In science, you DON'T have to have faith OR Trust, its OK TO NOT KNOW SOMETHING.

So, there are ome things we might have a lot of evidence for...and, when we plug it into new situations, it still works, so, we say, hey, it looks like its right...

..and then we might find an exception...and say, hmmm, its MOSTLY right, but, why isn't it right HERE too?

We may simply NOT KNOW. That's not faith, or trust, that's not knowing, and, using that NOT knowing to catapult us to further research until we DO know, one day.

So, faith and trust in religion is MANDATORY.

Faith and trust in science as a process is not mandatory, but, so far, seems more warranted...and faith and trust in data scientifically collected and hypotheses proposed is not only not mandatory, but, an impediment to further research.


If you stretch it, you can trust the process as a proven entity with a track record of astounding results...but that is NOT the same as thinking that anything science hypothesizes is cast in stone and you HAVE to accept it.

Its more like we find something that WORKS, and use it until something better is found, rinse/repeat.


Its about following evidence to the truth instead of dogma.
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