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Old 02-26-2015, 04:40 PM #5153
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Cats have been linked to Satanism and are common in liberal households.Theres a tract named "Why Christians Can't Own Cats" that really opened my eyes on the matter. Bascially, these animals make us worship them and displace our willingness to get married and have children, thus assaulting the very idea of a having a healthy Christian family.


And here I was actually wondering the other day if I should try adopting a cat, and I'm pretty sure I don't want to have kids. Though I'm not at all opposed to getting married.


To be fair, if someone were to spit soda on my dog, and it wasn't an accident... they would also end up in the hospital.



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Old 02-26-2015, 06:47 PM #5154
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I spent some time on this this evening and I have to admit you are correct. It looks like 42% of Americans are creationists and nearly half of them are young earth creationists. I am disappointed that so many Americans can be so stupid! I am not convinced of the accuracy of Gallup polls since it is a sample of only 1028 adults over 18 done by telephone only, but it is probably accurate enough. Only about 430 of those polled would have been creationists, I am not convinced that is enough to get a reasonable random sample. I hope someone does a larger poll someday of just the creationists to see how many are young earth and how many are old earth creationists.

I see this nonsense does possibly have its roots in Judaism. It's unfortunate Jesus or the apostles aren't known to have ever spoken on this subject. Maybe no one was thinking about it much back then.

Alan

I'm sure NO ONE back in Roman times was thinking about a scientific principle that would be discovered long after they were dead....and as they were mere mortals, they would have no future knowledge, etc.

As for roots in Judaism, that's unlikely, as Jews go with Maimonides interpretation of science.

The Torah interpretation was always that if science and the torah were in conflict, it would either be due to an error in the Torah, or, in science.

IE: If science and religion are in conflict, its not assumed that science must be wrong, its assumed that at least ONE OF THEM must be wrong, and, you take it on a case by case basis.

I know a lot of Christian Creationists and even more ID versions...but I know NO Jewish Creationists, at all...but a large percentage does lean towards ID. The ID Jews all agreed evolution was how it all works, but that it was set in motion by god...in contrast to the Christian non-Creationist but ID's, who were about split on evolution vs evolution set in motion by god. Again, this is for the people I know at least (No survey).


Remember, its the old testament where all the "age of earth" calculations were performed in. That means that whoever wrote down the stories, left the ages of things and people and the begottens for everyone else to then add up. (Garbage in=Garbage Out)

The Jews themselves say that the age of the earth is not calculable from the old testament, because the equivalent measurements of time are not provided.

One Jewish scholar had guessed that Adam/Eve would would have been closer to 50,000 years ago..hundreds of years ago, IIRC.




So, you don't believe that the men the Church says were the conduit to god, and, therefore, you would logically, not believe that they had any words breathed into their ears (Or, they WOULD HAVE BEEN a conduit to god).

If the bible was not from GOD, then, as you surmised, it was from MEN.

Furthermore, based upon those men not being breathed the words BY god, they were the MEN'S WORDS.


Now, if you then take the above men's words, and, your prior assumption that they were therefore not gods words, and, therefore, not necessarily infallible...and the bible is therefore not infallible...

You would, logically, conclude that there is nothing holy about the bible....its mens words, except you say that they lied.

The reason you say they lied, is because THEY said GOD breathed the words to them....and YOU say god DIDN'T. (Because if god did, then, the men WERE the conduit to god, and, you don't think they were)


So, that means the bible, and all the myths, legends, stories and characters in it, are written by men, with no divine input.


--------------------

When you quote a bible passage, you are quoting something some guy made up.

Was the bible "Based Upon" or "Inspired By" what those men actually believed?

For some parts, sure. For most of it though, its just regurgitated stories already written by prior cultures...virgin births, walking on water, wine from water, wise men visiting babies in barns after following stars to find the tike, etc....the tike later dying and being reborn, etc...its all been done already.

The men just borrowed the stories.

It also means the Creationists adding up of the meaningless chronological drivel, produced the expected chronological result. (Garbage in = Garbage Out)


So, based upon your logic, I think you would be unlikely to feel that the bible is a reliable source for anything, and, that there is no reason to ascribe any special significance as to the words relative to how you might conduct your life....

...except by coincidence, as I'm sure you personally do not murder, steal or bear false witness just for examples, just because the bible said not to....you'd be a fair and kind person either way.


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Old 02-26-2015, 07:04 PM #5155
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

I read this one too:


The Eternal Artist: Why America Must Eliminate the Creative Class - HardDawn.com | HardDawn.com


This site's a veritable GOLD MINE of right wing whacko doodles.


I'm thinking the writers are doing satire, but there's posters that are the writers posting as right wing whackos....but some actual whacko might actually see the parody and not realize its a parody, because it reflects their world view...but, then again, they could ALSO be the writers, 'cause they are pretty out there.






I hope its a parody, but its a freaking riot either way.


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Old 02-26-2015, 07:55 PM #5156
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Read the Marijuana one, and see if you can keep a straight face: Pot Legalization is Killing My Buzz - HardDawn.com | HardDawn.com


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Old 02-26-2015, 08:37 PM #5157
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I say AGAIN , keep the gifs & pics to a minimum unless their absolutely necessary.

Keep it a discussion.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:26 PM #5158
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I know NO Jewish Creationists, at all...but a large percentage does lean towards ID
They're the same thing. Intelligent design IS creationism.
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Old 02-27-2015, 12:50 AM #5159
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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They're the same thing. Intelligent design IS creationism.
I do differentiate, albeit I agree its thinly veiled creationism...the key difference I see in practice at least, is that there are two main groups, with fuzzy edges:


Groups:

1) The earth is ~ 6k years old and everything happened word for word as described in the bible. They are creationists and ID-ers, and proud of it.

2) The bible might be a bunch of stories, but, I still believe in god, and, can't imagine that the universe did not have a creator...so, intelligent design covers the "God Did It" w/o going as far as "God did it ~ 6k years ago".



This is why they USE ID to veil the creationist label...because a lot of the ID-ers, if pressed, would deny being creationists, because even they think the 6k yr old earth stuff is tarded again.

By CALLING it ID, they get to include the theists who, for example, have a basic 3rd grade knowledge of science.


In a nut shell, most people who believe in god, consider god to be the creator of the universe. If god's the creator of the universe, its not illogical from that given to believe in ID.

Its the BIBLE that is the bone of contention. A lot of people can agree that god created the universe and that he must have had SOME SORT of plan, I mean, he IS GOD after all...but, after that, they are all over the ideological map concerning the DETAILS.

"The Devil is in the Details" might be a good way to put it.




So, the ID crowd, sans the young earth reality-denial crowd as a sub-set, is far less looney overall.

That's why I make the distinction.


I don't want ID taught as if it were true, not in public schools for example, as its not science, its religion.


AND I SURE AS HELL don't want young earth creationism taught ANYWHERE, as I feel that its child abuse.
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Old 02-27-2015, 01:02 AM #5160
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

DO NOT DELETE THIS FORUM !!! I read it frequently and enjoy the dialogue AND gif's.
It is easy for atheists to demand proof from those with faith. Science is easy here.
As I told an atheist friend of mine once when he asked me, an engineer, for proof, I could only respond: "When you can define infinity with finite words, we will both know God".
Keep up the debate here and thanks for being civil on the forum.
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Old 02-27-2015, 01:54 AM #5161
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ped View Post
I say AGAIN , keep the gifs & pics to a minimum unless their absolutely necessary.

Keep it a discussion.
Why though? I think they're a good thing. They add comic relief.
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Old 02-27-2015, 02:05 AM #5162
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

infinity:
a number so large that any number divided by it is zero. there, done

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Read the Marijuana one, and see if you can keep a straight face
IDK maybe it is a parody joke. what's up with the jersy shore guy and the AR at the top? there's divine light or something coming from his crotch oh god I cant believe I just got it. Hard Dawn, Hard-on. oh ok, duh, how could I be so thick?
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Old 02-27-2015, 02:11 AM #5163
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ped --
I'm with BKing...... If memory space is becoming a problem, perhaps the earliest posts and/or pics could be removed since many ideas here seem to have gone around many times.
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Old 02-27-2015, 03:26 AM #5164
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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because a lot of the ID-ers, if pressed, would deny being creationists, because even they think the 6k yr old earth stuff is tarded again.
No, the reason they'll deny being a creationist is because teaching creation in science class was shot down, and re-labeling the idea as "intelligent design" was their feeble attempt at a round two, which was also shot down. The only difference being: ID proposes the creator could be any number of things, not just the christian god. That's kind of where the flying ********* monster came from, since the creator could be anything.

You're confusing creationist with young-earth creationist. A creationist believes we were created by god. A young-earth creationist is a subset of creationists with the further belief that the earth is <10k years old.
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Old 02-27-2015, 09:21 AM #5165
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
No, the reason they'll deny being a creationist is because teaching creation in science class was shot down, and re-labeling the idea as "intelligent design" was their feeble attempt at a round two, which was also shot down. The only difference being: ID proposes the creator could be any number of things, not just the christian god. That's kind of where the flying ********* monster came from, since the creator could be anything.

You're confusing creationist with young-earth creationist. A creationist believes we were created by god. A young-earth creationist is a subset of creationists with the further belief that the earth is <10k years old.
It sounds like a nomenclature issue then. I'll use young earthers as the term for the super whacka doodles to avoid the confusion.

Therefore, pretty much anyone who believes in god is a creationist, and all creationists are then ID and visa versa with no distinction.

Creationists with no knowledge of / fear of science therefore are the young earthers's flock when they are ignorant of how they came to be, why the world and everything on it appears as it does, etc....and go with their sect's interpreted bible version.

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Old 02-27-2015, 11:00 AM #5166
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Why though? I think they're a good thing. They add comic relief.
Because its a discussion , there are other threads for pics & gifs.


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Originally Posted by Hemlock_Mike View Post
Ped --
I'm with BKing...... If memory space is becoming a problem, perhaps the earliest posts and/or pics could be removed since many ideas here seem to have gone around many times.
HMike
No, a lot of people view LPF on mobile devices and a thread full of pics & gifs makes browsing difficult & frustrating . There are dedicated threads for those who wish to view them. If you MUST use a graphic to emphasize a point you're trying to get across , link to it, don't embed it. Then whoever wishes to view it, can, without inconveniencing others.

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Old 02-27-2015, 11:05 AM #5167
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ped View Post
Because its a discussion , there are other threads for pics & gifs.



No, a lot of people view LPF on mobile devices and a thread full of pics & gifs makes browsing difficult & frustrating . There are dedicated threads for those who wish to view them. If you MUST use a graphic to emphasize a point you're trying to get across , link to it, don't embed it. Then whoever wishes to view it, can, without inconveniencing others.

Ped
fair enough, does the same go for Youtube vids? I will totally alter posts from now on to accommodate this if so.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:10 AM #5168
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I haven't seen many YT embeds so I guess that's ok, its mainly pics & gifs.
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