Old 02-21-2015, 05:12 AM #5089
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Not exactly on topic, but I felt the need to share this. It makes leaps of "logic" on the level of Illuminati conspiracy theorists.
Damn it! Blarg I wish I had not seen that! I used to drink those and I never noticed!

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Old 02-21-2015, 05:32 AM #5090
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ah don't believe it. For starters the 2 first lines of the M logo are connected so the 666 thing is a bust. I drink it almost every day (Ah being an animator) and I've never seen the "BFC" nonsense either.

After 2 years of regularly drinking that stuff I've yet to experience any satanic side effects XD
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:04 AM #5091
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Ah don't believe it. For starters the 2 first lines of the M logo are connected so the 666 thing is a bust. I drink it almost every day (Ah being an animator) and I've never seen the "BFC" nonsense either.

After 2 years of regularly drinking that stuff I've yet to experience any satanic side effects XD
What? You wouldn't know a satanic side effect if it came up and bit you in the ass. Because you wouldn't even believe it existed.
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:40 AM #5092
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well to be honest Im not even sure what a satanic side effect might be. Give me a few things that would be considered a satanic side effect and Ill let you know :P

And being an atheist isnt a satanic side effect. That started long before I drank energy drink.
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:53 AM #5093
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Well to be honest Im not even sure what a satanic side effect might be. Give me a few things that would be considered a satanic side effect and Ill let you know :P

And being an atheist isnt a satanic side effect. That started long before I drank energy drink.


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Old 02-21-2015, 01:42 PM #5094
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Debating on whether he was on the same level as God or just below God is not the same debate as questioning the divinity or resurrection.
Um, sure it is.

Think about it.

If he was god, why is is asking god for anything, such as advice or guidance, or referring to himself as less than or more than etc?

If he was not god, then why do you worship him as a god?

If he was a god, even a lesser god, then he was immortal. If he was immortal, he did not die for your sins.

So, if he was a MAN, he COULD die for your sins.....assuming that being a rebel fighter who is caught and executed somehow changes some arbitrary assignment of biblical blame tacked onto descendents by talking snake tricks, etc...in the first place, a rather farfetched idea really, don't you think?


If he was ALSO god, and he died for your sins, he only died for your sins for ~ 3 days or so...not much of a sacrifice in the overall scheme of things, but, then again, not much seemed to change as a result of it, as far as sinning, etc, went. If actually dead though HE could not also make HIMSELF rise, so, again, the question is, are you monotheistic, or, polytheistic?

So, if he was the SON OF GOD, then he was not god, he was the SON. This is akin to the Greek mythologies, where the gods had children and families, etc. Again, you are polytheistic if you believe god had a son.

If he was his OWN SON, then its a bit ridiculous in a West Virginia sort of way.

That means he's also his own father, and, impregnated his mother, with himself.









So, if you are monotheistic, Jesus and God are the same entity, but, then, he could not die for your sins....being immortal.

If you believe in MANY IMMORTAL BEINGS, you are polytheistic. So, Satan, demons, angels, gods, their progeny, and so forth are all considered to be immortal beings.

Do you believe Jesus is alive, right now?

HOW MANY immortal beings do YOU, personally, believe in? Can you name them, or are there so many that you need to refer to them by category?

If there is only ONE, THEN you are monotheistic.

If there are more than ONE, then you are polytheistic.

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Old 02-21-2015, 03:11 PM #5095
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You say I'm wrong but don't mention the existence of the trinity, three distinct persons that are of one "substance, essence, or nature". It doesn't make sense to apply the biological rules of our existance to his. Also you never got to the part where debating Jesus' nature with respect to God is the same as debating whether the resurrection happened, which also doesn't make sense to say those are the same thing.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:23 PM #5096
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I doubt we are capable of understand God or the nature of the trinity. I don't see any point in arguing over it because there is no answer, I don't want to add confusion here but the word Elohim is a plural noun.

Belief in many immortal beings doesn't make someone polytheistic. Polytheism is the belief in or worship of more than one God, Angels and Demons etc. are not gods.

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Old 02-21-2015, 07:44 PM #5097
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
You say I'm wrong but don't mention the existence of the trinity, three distinct persons that are of one "substance, essence, or nature". It doesn't make sense to apply the biological rules of our existance to his. Also you never got to the part where debating Jesus' nature with respect to God is the same as debating whether the resurrection happened, which also doesn't make sense to say those are the same thing.



So, you say its possible to "resurrect" someone who didn't die? If not dead, they don't NEED to be resurrected.

Deciding on if he CAN be "resurrected" is step one in deciding if he WAS resurrected.

Deciding if he was a man, and COULD die, is important, as otherwise HE DIDN'T DIE.

And so forth...so, you are glossing over an ENORMOUSLY important set of concepts as if they don't matter....when in fact, they are PIVOTAL.





You say the trinity is simply different aspects of the same entity, in which case, that's like saying EVERYONE should be referred to as aspects of themselves, instead of as themselves, etc.

IE: Why refer to aspects separately when you have one entity?

If they are all one entity, just say so.

If they are three entities, just say so.

For example, if you pray to a Saint, can the Saint help you? The "Patron Saint" status they enjoy seems to support that.

If you pray to an angel, can the angel help you?

If you pray to god, are there intermediaries, such as angels, who are responsible for answering your prayers, or, does god so the work?

If you pray to Jesus, is Jesus also god, who hears your prayers, or does Jesus hear your prayer if you pray to Jesus, and god hear your prayer if you pray to god? If it doesn't matter, why does GOD want YOU to to pray to JESUS?



DID Jesus die on the cross?

If he died, then, he was not immortal. If he was god, then god died.

If god didn't die, then he did not die for your sins.


If he died, but, god brought him back to life, then, if you believe that, you are a polytheist, as you believe there was a god, and his son.

He could not bring himself back to life, as that requires action, and, he'd still be dead until he took that action. So, if he "resurrected himself", he wasn't actually dead, and therefore did not die for your sins.

If Jesus was god, and he did die, then god died....and so forth.


So, yes, its completely pivotal to answer the questions.


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Old 02-21-2015, 08:00 PM #5098
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I doubt we are capable of understand God or the nature of the trinity. I don't see any point in arguing over it because there is no answer, I don't want to add confusion here but the word Elohim is a plural noun.

Belief in many immortal beings doesn't make someone polytheistic. Polytheism is the belief in or worship of more than one God, Angels and Demons etc. are not gods.

Alan

Polytheism includes the belief in multiple immortal entities.

Otherwise, for example, the Greeks could be Monotheistic, as they believed Zeus was the main god, but he had other immortals.

The immortals had roles, such as the god of this or the god of that.

As soon as you say a god had a son, you are into polytheism.

The "gods" were simply immortal beings, some of which were aligned with other immortal beings, and/or associated with various sub-sets of the religion.

So the various archangels and angels, Satan, demons, gods, their progeny, and so forth, are the same in practice.


BTW - Elohim is both a singular and a plural noun, not just plural. It would be like the word "Deer" in English. IE: Look! a herd of deer! vs Look! A deer!


In 2 Corinthians 4:4;

Satan, who is the god of this world, ....

So, there is Satan called "The God this World"...in the bible.

OK, there's god #2 right there in your own bible.







If you call a god something else, its to fool yourself. If you mean an immortal being, Apollo, Jesus, Satan, whatever, you call it, if there's 2 or more, it means you believe in more than one immortal being.

If god is supposed to be a benign entity that created and oversees everything...and always existed, etc...that makes him immortal.

The "gods of yore" were gods because they were immortal...its how you could tell the gods from the people....the people were "Mere Mortals".

We lived "On this Mortal Coil", and so forth.


If you say he then created other immortal entities, those, at a minimum, would have been considered gods themselves.

IE: You can pray to them.

Christians Pray to Jesus, or to God, or to Saints, or to angels...Jews Pray to god. Muslims pray to Allah, who they consider to be the same god that the Jews and Christians pray to. Does it matter what you call god?






If a religion is TRULY monotheistic, there should only be ONE GOD.

If you are TRULY ATHEISTIC, you should believe in EXACTLY one fewer god than a monotheist believes in.


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Old 02-21-2015, 10:02 PM #5099
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Judas: Still on for Friday?

Jesus: Friday?

Judas: Yeah, the Last Supper.

Jesus: The what?

Judas: Supper. Normal supper with the fellas.
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Old 02-21-2015, 10:29 PM #5100
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Eh, to me they are all a bunch of belief systems proclaimed to be reality by the believers but yet I think spirituality is real and more than just belief. Did I just contradict myself? I didn't associate spirituality with a religion though.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.
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Old 02-22-2015, 06:49 AM #5101
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Eh, to me they are all a bunch of belief systems proclaimed to be reality by the believers but yet I think spirituality is real and more than just belief. Did I just contradict myself? I didn't associate spirituality with a religion though.
Not a contradiction, just putting yourself on the scale relative to the entire concept.

Spirituality's definition is a moving target, and, means different things to different people. It used to mean about the same as religiosity, etc. Now it seems to mean more along the lines of a what religion used to provide, and doesn't require the supernatural per se. More like wanting to improve oneself and the lives of others, for its own sake, without NEEDING a third party punishing or rewarding you for your progress.

A person can be spiritual and religious, if they want to act the way they act regardless of the religion, and, they can be spiritual but unaffiliated with a religion.

An increasing number of people are abandoning organized religion, primarily due to the often ludicrous requirements for "belief", and adopting their own versions of belief systems that fit their own spirituality for example.

Many who are spiritual still cling to theism, as they have not transcended past that point yet. Some who are spiritual are atheists. Some spiritual people are quite devout in their religious convictions as well, its a very personal choice...and quite varied in actual practice.

Some are "spiritual" the way some are "Catholic", in that they adhere to the trappings of a belief system, but wear crystals instead of crosses, etc.


For some, the problem is "god". The current religions have imposed THEIR definition of "god" upon us from our earliest memories, and, that means that there might not be a word or concept to describe what "god" would be like if we imagined him from scratch.

For example, the earliest gods were not perfect all knowing all seeing all powerful entities. The were merely "the spirits of things". By even greek or roman times, etc, they were sort of like people, in that they were flawed, jealous, could be tricked, would make mistakes, would act in selfish and capricious ways, could fall in love, etc. Its one of the reasons they had to be appeased....to avoid their wrath/curry their favor.

The requirements for constant worship and praise, and MEMBERSHIP REQUIREMENTS, sacrifices, etc, didn't start, strangely enough, until a class of people emerged who said THEY were how you communicate with these entities.

After that evolved, then, the entities evolved from flawed to perfection. Then, "god" was essentially DEFINED as this all knowing all seeing all powerful pinnacle of perfection....with the remaining requirement to STILL need constant worship and sacrifice to appease/curry favor with....."OR ELSE". (If you are a class of people who's product is communication with a deity, your product looks better if its perfect...and, being able to win wars and also give peace and prosperity is a real plus. Add in that if you don't accept this special offer, you will be punished for all eternity, so sign right here....)




So, to "believe in a supreme being" etc, is already a loaded phrase, as why does the being have to BE supreme? Why can't there be some entity that creates everything, but, is NOT PERFECT? Why can't the entity be a cosmic cock up for example?

Why can't it be a force that exists but has random effects, etc? What if there were a "committee"? THAT would explain a lot too, and so forth.



IE: People are given a default "god" concept...with givens that may not fit with THEIR idea of reality...or spirituality.

If you're an atheist, its easy....you don't need to make up gods and their characteristics.

If you just HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING out there because its too scary not to/it just blows your mind to NOT have something out there, etc....then, you just have to decide what that would be...for you.


For example, lets say you are one of those people who wants there to be "Intelligent Design". All you'd have to do is drop the word "Intelligent", and it all could at least be more defensible, and humans with vestigial organs, joints that are poorly designed for our current posture but make sense if we used to go on all fours, etc...a source of heat and light that gives us cancer, sunburn, and, which will destroy the planet in a few billion years, etc....all now make perfect sense: The "creator" was not perfect, he did cock up a few times, but, its what we have to work with now...so, lets get on with it.



So, everyone's spirituality is contaminated by current thoughts and concepts, but, I think most people strive to find what makes sense, to them.

Last edited by Teej; 02-22-2015 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 02-22-2015, 04:29 PM #5102
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Catholic Priest Dies for 48 Minutes, Comes Back to Life and Claims God Is Female

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A Catholic priest from Massachusetts was officially dead for more than 48 minutes before medics were able to miraculously re-start his heart. During that time, Father John Micheal O’neal claims he went to heaven and met God, which he describes as a warm and comforting motherly figure.
Quote:
“Her presence was both overwhelming and comforting” states the Catholic priest. “She had a soft and soothing voice and her presence was as reassuring as a mother’s embrace. The fact that God is a Holy Mother instead of a Holy Father doesn’t disturb me, she is everything I hoped she would be and even more!”
Quote:
The Archbishop of Boston, Cardinal Sean P. O’Malley, made a public statement this morning stating that Father O’neal suffered hallucinations linked to a near-death experience and that God clearly isn’t a female.
Guess they are afraid of having to redo all the statues?

Of course there are those celebrating the news too!


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Old 02-22-2015, 05:01 PM #5103
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Catholic Priest Dies for 48 Minutes, Comes Back to Life and Claims God Is Female







Guess they are afraid of having to redo all the statues?

Of course there are those celebrating the news too!



http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...F9AED002AFD8AC






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Old 02-22-2015, 05:41 PM #5104
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post


48 minutes, 3 hours, 3 days, two months... Swedish man Peter Skyllberg survives in frozen car for two months by eating handfuls of snow | Daily Mail Online

Basing your way of life on the word of someone likely brain damaged... ti's does not seem a good idea.
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