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Old 02-19-2015, 06:06 PM #5057
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
I can't speak for all atheists, but the general impression I've gotten from others is that we don't give a crap what you believe in as long as you aren't trying to force your beliefs on others.

That's pretty much my view too , Believe in what you want but don't shove it in other peoples face .


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Old 02-19-2015, 06:20 PM #5058
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 02-19-2015, 07:28 PM #5059
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
You see this is a big BIG part of the problem. The two of (you and RB) both claim to be Christian, and to be following the same bible.

Yet you clearly disagree on interpretation, while leading to the same conclusion which is that anyone who doesn't follow the bible ends up in hell.

@Ped - I'll try to keep the gifs to a minimum, but make no promises... http://i.imgur.com/Ml9RhMo.gif
I can tolerate your constant trolling but I am pleased that Ped has noticed it, your only making atheists and yourself look bad with your constant attempts to insult and provoke anyone who is not an athiest.

All Christians claim to follow the same bible but to say that is an exaggeration. They use so many different translations and interpret things in different ways and sometimes twist it into something that isn't there. I have studied for years many translations and bible encyclopedias and dictionaries and commentaries and the books that were removed from the bible (the apocrypha) and many other texts and I look things up in the original Hebrew or Greek and find things not quite right. The fact is that most Christians have never even read the bible all the way through from beginning to end! They just go along with what someone is teaching in church and accept it as fact. Many churches are so far removed from original Christianity that they have no business calling themselves Christian. There were many disagreements starting early on and grew over the years, today Christianity is the most divided religion on earth.

I don't remember saying that anyone who doesn't follow the bible ends up in hell and I certainly don't believe people are judged immediately. If I said something that looked that way, it's not what I meant. Christians are divided on this more than you think, there are basically three theories on this. I won't go into them here but one is that there is a millinium period of time (1000 years) after Christ returns and that judgment isn't until the end of that thousand years, this gives everyone a chance to learn the truth they weren't exposed to in this life and have a second chance. This I think is more likely. I would also like to point out here that the only unforgivable sin in the bible is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, however we know from 1st John that a murderer has no salvation, how can that be if it's a forgivable sin? I think it means that a murderer has no salvation yet in this life but that it's decided in the next life, I don't know maybe whoever was murdered gets to have some say, just a guess. Also there is a third place people go when they pass on, I am sorry but I lost my software recently when my old computer failed and haven't been able to replace it yet and my apocrypha is in the other trailer and I can't get there from here now so I have to go from memory, but in 1st or 2nd Esdras or 3rd or 4th Esra depending on what translation you have. These books are in any catholic bible or in old bibles printed before about 1826 or in the apocrypha, anyway in one place it just happens to mention a place people go and the great despair they feel knowing they didn't make it. There is a great gulf separating them from heaven and they know what's on the other side but they can't cross over but people can cross over to them and go back again. Now there are things in the bible that have to be explained in a way that people will understand the basic idea but can't be explained literally because people don't have anything to compare it to here in this life and this is one of those things.

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Old 02-19-2015, 07:43 PM #5060
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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No ones demanding that. I dress in jeans and a shirt that's it.

Church just helps ya be strengthened and not be brought down by the world.

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Old 02-19-2015, 07:53 PM #5061
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I do think a thread in which the actual christians argue the particulars of their faith would be amusing. i'm willing to bet no two would be in complete agreement. what's that say for the infallibility of the book?

I would like to see some fellows of mine here represent the believers arguements better. theres no need to misrepresent, especially when the actual claims are absurd enough as is. a few times I read things none of you (believers) ever claimed, like that satan rules hell. My understanding when I was a christian was that satan suffers there too, God runs the place, unless i missed something. I will try to never misrepresent your side, after all, i dont want to be accused of attacking a strawman. I know argueing/debating with the religious can be frustrating, but try to do it in an edifying way. I fail at this often and give in to the frustration, but that just gives them ammunition and makes them more defensive. of course going about it gently and with logic can often result in simply being labeled a silver tongued devil. often there's no way to win with them, because they have decided in advance that they will not allow themselves to be convinced. my mother for example. the more strongly i argue, the more convinced she is that satan is working through me.

still waiting for a coherent response RB, or did I stump you? I freely admit I did not read the entire context of every verse I posted, so it's possible a defense could be made

I'm open to being convinced, or rather, re-convinced, but given the amount of time and evidence that had to stack up to crumble my formerly very strongly held christian beliefs, you will need some very compelling arguements/evidence. I watch christian/atheist debates frequently, I see the religious almost never come up with something I have never heard before, everything I have heard them claim has been proved false, or remained unproven. extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

I have shed my fear of death to a large degree. I find meaning here and now. I dont understand why so many christians feel this life would be meaningless if there were no afterlife. wouldnt that make it MORE meaningful? I would rather say "i dont know" than posit a god for every unknown, because every mystery uncovered that was formerly thought to have been a divine phenomena, was not (lightning and rainbows, for example). but who knows, perhaps I can not see the woods for the trees. I strive for consistency in my world view, because I know that inconsistency so often conceals LIES

I feel this guy's pain. warning, this video is like nails on a chalk board. I cant believe he even attempted this. I personally would have to muster every ounce of strength to resist throttling that woman. love how she tells him not to interrupt, then interrupts him at every oppertunity, so much so that he resorts to talking over her:

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Old 02-19-2015, 07:58 PM #5062
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I think this thread is a disruption to the forum and should be moved to a social group.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:06 PM #5063
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
I think this thread is a disruption to the forum and should be moved to a social group.
yes, best to censor that with which you do not agree. (sarcasm)

I enjoy it, many others do too. some days its the only thread I feel like posting in, when the laser news is on a slow day.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:18 PM #5064
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I can tolerate your constant trolling but I am pleased that Ped has noticed it, your only making atheists and yourself look bad with your constant attempts to insult and provoke anyone who is not an athiest.
I feel the same way about the religious dogma that gets trotted out on a regular basis, and presented as fact. You expect people to believe in fantasy and I respond in kind, usually trying for humor as opposed to outright insult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
All Christians claim to follow the same bible but to say that is an exaggeration. They use so many different translations and interpret things in different ways and sometimes twist it into something that isn't there. I have studied for years many translations and bible encyclopedias and dictionaries and commentaries and the books that were removed from the bible (the apocrypha) and many other texts and I look things up in the original Hebrew or Greek and find things not quite right. The fact is that most Christians have never even read the bible all the way through from beginning to end! They just go along with what someone is teaching in church and accept it as fact. Many churches are so far removed from original Christianity that they have no business calling themselves Christian. There were many disagreements starting early on and grew over the years, today Christianity is the most divided religion on earth.
And yet you expect people to believe it! I applaud the fact that you went far above and beyond what most christians do, but find it mindboggling that after having noticed all of the inconsistencies you still accept the religion.

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I don't remember saying that anyone who doesn't follow the bible ends up in hell and I certainly don't believe people are judged immediately. If I said something that looked that way, it's not what I meant. Christians are divided on this more than you think, there are basically three theories on this. I won't go into them here but one is that there is a millinium period of time (1000 years) after Christ returns and that judgment isn't until the end of that thousand years, this gives everyone a chance to learn the truth they weren't exposed to in this life and have a second chance. This I think is more likely. I would also like to point out here that the only unforgivable sin in the bible is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, however we know from 1st John that a murderer has no salvation, how can that be if it's a forgivable sin? I think it means that a murderer has no salvation yet in this life but that it's decided in the next life, I don't know maybe whoever was murdered gets to have some say, just a guess. Also there is a third place people go when they pass on, I am sorry but I lost my software recently when my old computer failed and haven't been able to replace it yet and my apocrypha is in the other trailer and I can't get there from here now so I have to go from memory, but in 1st or 2nd Esdras or 3rd or 4th Esra depending on what translation you have. These books are in any catholic bible or in old bibles printed before about 1826 or in the apocrypha, anyway in one place it just happens to mention a place people go and the great despair they feel knowing they didn't make it. There is a great gulf separating them from heaven and they know what's on the other side but they can't cross over but people can cross over to them and go back again. Now there are things in the bible that have to be explained in a way that people will understand the basic idea but can't be explained literally because people don't have anything to compare it to here in this life and this is one of those things.

Alan
In that case, in the absence of proof currently, can you honestly blame people for refusing to believe?

Meanwhile you do impose your religion on the world, and expect it to be offered respect as an absolute truth.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:26 PM #5065
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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No ones demanding that. I dress in jeans and a shirt that's it.

Church just helps ya be strengthened and not be brought down by the world.
Are you making the claim that religion does not impose itself at all on the world?

That christianity does not impose itself on people's lives in the US?

Quote:
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I think this thread is a disruption to the forum and should be moved to a social group.
You'll note it's in the OTHER section of the forum.
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Old 02-19-2015, 08:45 PM #5066
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Just clarifying that in a post above, I headed it RB Astro -

But Pi R replied as if I had posted in reply to him.

IE: I pointed out what RB SAID, and then Pi said I was all mixed up, and that he disagreed with what I said, which was re-stating what RB Astro had said.

This only means that Pi thinks RB Astro is wrong, but, directed it to me instead.




To be clear, I never said Pi said what RB said, I said RB said it.

Pi can rebut RB if he likes more directly, but, I thought he did a fine job already....even if at me.






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Old 02-19-2015, 08:57 PM #5067
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Mr Duke's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Squared's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Astro's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Duke's, Mr Squared's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Squared's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Duke's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Bro's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Duke's, and Mr Squared's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so.

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
I think this thread is a disruption to the forum and should be moved to a social group.
You may leave at any time if you so desire.
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:44 PM #5068
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Mr Duke's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Squared's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Astro's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Duke's, Mr Squared's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Squared's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Duke's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Bro's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Duke's, and Mr Squared's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so.



You may leave at any time if you so desire.


The bible seems to be a bit ambiguous. Everyone who reads it believes that it said something different. They might agree on the words they read, but, disagree on what the words meant, and, whether some words count more than others do.

Most people, that I know at least, believe the bible supports their world view.

Their world views can be wildly different, but the bible seems to contain instructions on everything, including to not do AND do the same things.

So, no matter what YOU want to be there, it is. All you have to do ignore all the parts you don't agree with, and focus on the one's you agree with, and the bible will support your world view.

Then, depending upon your degree of zeal, you claim varying proportional degrees of infallibility and excuses required to make real life and the bible "work together".

So, very zealous persons might claim every syllable is true, and there was a man named Adam and a world wide flood, etc...and all the evidence, such as city records that should have mentioned the 5 miles of water over the city, mentioned normal proceedings, etc....w/o even needing the overwhelming geological evidence.

They just keep saying the bible is 100% true, and that's it.

Others who are less zealous, might think of some of it as stories that inspire or teach, etc, but not as true....but, again, might insist the parts THEY think are true, ARE true, and the OTHERS are just stories.

So, super religious zealots go with 100% true, and, everyone else is on a sliding scale from that on down to zero %.


So, you pick your degree of gullibility, and, you pick the parts of the bible that work with that, and, you're good to go.

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Old 02-19-2015, 09:52 PM #5069
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
I feel the same way about the religious dogma that gets trotted out on a regular basis, and presented as fact. You expect people to believe in fantasy and I respond in kind, usually trying for humor as opposed to outright insult.

You clearly try more for insult than humor.

And yet you expect people to believe it! I applaud the fact that you went far above and beyond what most christians do, but find it mindboggling that after having noticed all of the inconsistencies you still accept the religion.

I expect some will believe it and some won't, it is up to the individual to decide what they believe.

In that case, in the absence of proof currently, can you honestly blame people for refusing to believe?

Meanwhile you do impose your religion on the world, and expect it to be offered respect as an absolute truth.
I expect all religions to be offered respect as long as they aren't harming others because they don't have the same beliefs, I would not consider them the absolute truth but people should be allowed to believe what they will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Just clarifying that in a post above, I headed it RB Astro -

But Pi R replied as if I had posted in reply to him.

IE: I pointed out what RB SAID, and then Pi said I was all mixed up, and that he disagreed with what I said, which was re-stating what RB Astro had said.

This only means that Pi thinks RB Astro is wrong, but, directed it to me instead.




To be clear, I never said Pi said what RB said, I said RB said it.

Pi can rebut RB if he likes more directly, but, I thought he did a fine job already....even if at me.






Sorry Teej, maybe I wasn't clear there, I said at the beginning you and RB and others. I do disagree with RB but how you answered him also required some explanation, but I was replying to him as much as you. I just wanted to explain some things you also said in reply to him that are wrong in my opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Mr Duke's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Squared's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Astro's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Duke's, Mr Squared's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Squared's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Duke's, and Mr Bro's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so. And yet...

Mr Bro's interpretation is vastly different from Mr Astro's, Mr Duke's, and Mr Squared's. But his is clearly the correct one. Because his beliefs are based on the bible. Because he said so.

I thought I explained this already, yes 3 are incorrect.





Alan
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:53 PM #5070
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
So, you pick your degree of gullibility, and, you pick the parts of the bible that work with that, and, you're good to go.

And then you add a dash of judaism, a sprinkle of buddhism, a touch of islam, and a topping of taoism for a proper religious shawarma.

Fortunately I can test whether one one of those is real, and I have to say I love to test it.
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:28 PM #5071
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You know Muhammad took some Judaism and Christianity and some pagan moon goddess worship and mixed them and spun it and out popped Islam. The three major religions in the region at the time, and that didn't work out so good in my opinion.

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Old 02-19-2015, 10:34 PM #5072
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by ped View Post
@ RB Astro , I've merged your (triple) post's (again).
Thanks Ped.

I know it's frowned upon to post multiple replies.
Not something I do in other threads.
I was hoping it would be ok in this thread as it's difficult to reply to everyone's responses in one post, it ends up being longer than a War and Peace novel.
Hope you guys don't mind if I do, it makes it easier to follow the discussions I think.
Let me know if it's ok or whether you prefer one reply?

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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
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For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
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