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Old 02-14-2015, 06:05 AM #4977
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Oh, you think the crusades didn't happen because of Christianity.

That's cute.
Next up, expect the response that no they didn't. That in fact the crusades occurred due to politics and financial interests.

Which is true... but it certainly wasn't the reason given to the rank and file crusader, who actually carried out the actions asked of him, and who did so with the blessing of his church, and believing he was fighting for god.


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Old 02-14-2015, 09:11 PM #4978
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 02-15-2015, 12:36 AM #4979
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro
People who thought they were true Christian.
And who are you to make that claim? Because according to every historical account of the events these people thought much the same. That they too were christians.

Where do you derive the authority to make that decision that YOU are a true christian and they were not?

If you have that authority, does not every else as well?
The only Authority I have is the Bible!
If these acts were done according to the Bible then I wouldn't have a problem.
But you see, people take things out of context or miss-interpret the Bible, or twist the Scriptures to suit their objectives.
No 'true' Christian is willing to act contrary to The Lord's teaching.
I am not in a position to judge the person, but I am called to "inspect their fruits".

Matthew 7:15-20
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.


Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro
Show me where Jesus tells us to go act like this?
Okie dokie neighborino:

"Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one dot of the Law to become void."

Now that's in the new testament, which brings back in effect literally every dot of old testament.

Do you need examples from the old testament commanding violence, because there are quite a few?
God had a purpose, when he chose the Jewish race to be His 'chosen people'.
He was setting up a linage of people, from whom one day, The Messiah was to be born, the one that in The Old Testament was prophesied about.
He had his purpose to keep the Jewish race separate and 'chosen', not to be corrupted by 'false gods and false religions' of the other nations.
Hence God did command the Jews to wipe out any threats that 'Satan' conjured up to corrupt the Jewish religion.
Jesus indeed said:

Matthew 5:17-20
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

What, in effect, He's saying here is that, He is the fulfilment of the promises God made to send a Saviour.
You see, none of us are capable of keeping the whole Law.
Every person born on earth has broken at least one of the commandments.
Now that Jesus has arrived, fulfilling the prophecies, He has made the way possible for each of us to accept His Gift of Salvation because He died and rose again, taking on all our Sins, in our place, so that we don't have to face judgment.
He payed our penalty of death.
We just have to confess that we are sinners to Him and ask Him for forgiveness, invite Him into our hearts and let Him make us new creations, Born Again Christians.
The old life is dead and we are spiritually Born Again, our sins payed for by Jesus.


John3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro
Don't turn your back on the true Gospel and the true Christian Life just because others have tainted it.
That's just it... these weren't just some people... these were popes, priests, pastors, reverends, etc,. and their followers who like you claim christianity as their own.
You know, a lot of main stream denominations teach one or more things that are contrary to the Bible.
The Mormons teach that one day we will be gods ourselves, and that Satan was the brother of Jesus.
The Jehovah's witnesses teach that Jesus was the angle Michael.
The Catholics and Orthodox teach that Mary was the Mother of God and that she remained a virgin.
Do you know that the Bible does not teach these things.
Mary was not "the Mother of God", she was not the venerated perpetual virgin that they teach.
Mary was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus but Mary and Joseph after that had normal marital relations and they had more children.
The Bible names them:

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?

I just go by what the Bible teaches us and that's it, because only the Bible is The Word of God.
No need for extra teachings and traditions.
All that we need is in the Bible and Bible alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro
Did Jesus ever advocate violence?
I don't know. Never met the guy. Never read anything he wrote.

How do you know?
I know from the Bible, if it's not in the Bible then it's questionable.
I know Jesus from the Bible, and that's enough for me.
Like the manufacture's instruction manual, the Bible is our instruction manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro
I try and answer people back only from the scriptures.
The Word of God is above all else.
Where did those scriptures come from?

How do you know that they are the word of god, except to believe what the scriptures themselves tell you?

That's the point you see... I don't know.

I don't have all the answers, but you claim that you do.

So... prove it.
The Bible was written by forty different authors oven many centuries, all inspired by God, to write down what He has commanded.
All are in harmony and all point to the Saviour, Jesus.
Just look at all the prophecies in the Old Testament detailing and telling us what the Messiah would be and what He would do and how it will be done.
All you have to do is read the whole Book and it's all there.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


Andrew


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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
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Old 02-15-2015, 03:47 AM #4980
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

can someone explain how original sin doesnt apply to christ but applies to everyone else?

BR ASTRO admitted "He was setting up a linage of people, from whom one day, The Messiah was to be born"

cool. we know original sin applied to all the people running up to christ, why does he get the exemption? why is the lineage important if Joseph contributed no sperm? oh wait I know it's so he had claim to the throne, but that doesnt really make sense either, again, because joseph contributed no sperm. surely Mary also descended from a line that original sin applies to, so either way, christ should have it.

RB, I'm afraid you are hopelessly deluded. you have closed the door on knowledge and truth, it makes me sad, but hey, at least you arent alone. If you think that's out of line, know that I tell my own mother the same thing. you should put your money where your mouth is, and really follow the bible if you believe it so absolutely. Got leprosy? kill a bird, sprinkle it's blood on another and release it, (after sprinkling yourself seven times) it should clear right up. abstain from all shellfish, they're an abomination
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:22 AM #4981
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

YOUR interpretation is the only correct interpretation, naturally. Of course, all other subsets of Christianity say the same thing about their interpretation. But they're all wrong and you're right.

Hey... Would you mind repeating "interpretations of the bible that don't agree with mine are wrong" in ten different ways for us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
...people take things out of context or miss-interpret the Bible

...No 'true' Christian is willing to act contrary to The Lord's teaching.

...I am not in a position to judge the person, but I am called to "inspect their fruits".

... “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits.

...not to be corrupted by 'false gods and false religions'

...You know, a lot of main stream denominations teach one or more things that are contrary to the Bible.

...I just go by what the Bible teaches us and that's it, because only the Bible is The Word of God.
...No need for extra teachings and traditions.

...All that we need is in the Bible and Bible alone.

...I know from the Bible, if it's not in the Bible then it's questionable.
Fantastic
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:25 AM #4982
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

And now a word from Christians Against Dinosaurs.

Wow. First we coexisted with dinosaurs, now their just an evil lie.
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:37 AM #4983
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
can someone explain how original sin doesnt apply to christ but applies to everyone else?

BR ASTRO admitted "He was setting up a linage of people, from whom one day, The Messiah was to be born"

cool. we know original sin applied to all the people running up to christ, why does he get the exemption? why is the lineage important if Joseph contributed no sperm? oh wait I know it's so he had claim to the throne, but that doesnt really make sense either, again, because joseph contributed no sperm. surely Mary also descended from a line that original sin applies to, so either way, christ should have it.
I am going to bring in something here that is controversial among us Christians, I said something about this here before but I forget what.

Now most all churches believe and teach that Adam and Eve were the first humans, and yet this is not what the bible tells us. I have only ever seen one church teach otherwise. In Genesis chapter 1 God clearly creates man on the 6th day:


"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."


I believe this is when all the races were created, some churches think the different races were created at the Tower of Babel but it doesn't say that. Now let's continue to Genesis chapter 2 to sometime after the 7th day, the 8th day or later when God creates Adam and Eve:


"7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."


Here one could ask: since they were the ones that sinned, then shouldn't that sin apply to their descendants and not the descendants of the other races? Now let's continue to Genesis chapter 4 where Cain kills his brother Abel:


"9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."


Cain then travels to somewhere in the east called the land of Nod. I believe this is what is now northern India. Their he finds a wife and has sons and they find wives. This tells me there were already people living there. The Kenites (sons of Cain) are mentioned in at least 11 places in the Old Testament. I believe the descendants of Cain became the Romany Gypsy people who are known to have originated in northern India and migrated across Asia and into Europe, remember the words:

"a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."

And keep in mind that if they can't be farmers or stay in one place then they have to find other ways to make a living.

Now let's remember that all this was also before the flood. So why are all the races still living? As far as we know there were only 8 people on the ark! Is everyone on earth descended from them? Of course not! Now there are 3 possibilities:

1) the flood wasn't world wide.

2) there were more than 8 people on the ark. This is possible because it doesn't say they took 2 of every animal, but instead it says 2 of every flesh. In my opinion that can be interpreted in more than one way.

3) a combination of 1 and 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
RB, I'm afraid you are hopelessly deluded. you have closed the door on knowledge and truth, it makes me sad, but hey, at least you arent alone. If you think that's out of line, know that I tell my own mother the same thing. you should put your money where your mouth is, and really follow the bible if you believe it so absolutely. Got leprosy? kill a bird, sprinkle it's blood on another and release it, (after sprinkling yourself seven times) it should clear right up. abstain from all shellfish, they're an abomination
And don't forget: no fish that doesn't have both fins and scales!

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Old 02-15-2015, 03:48 PM #4984
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I am going to bring in something here that is controversial among us Christians, I said something about this here before but I forget what.

Now most all churches believe and teach that Adam and Eve were the first humans, and yet this is not what the bible tells us. I have only ever seen one church teach otherwise. In Genesis chapter 1 God clearly creates man on the 6th day:


"26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."


I believe this is when all the races were created, some churches think the different races were created at the Tower of Babel but it doesn't say that. Now let's continue to Genesis chapter 2 to sometime after the 7th day, the 8th day or later when God creates Adam and Eve:


"7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed."


Here one could ask: since they were the ones that sinned, then shouldn't that sin apply to their descendants and not the descendants of the other races? Now let's continue to Genesis chapter 4 where Cain kills his brother Abel:


"9 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?

10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."


Cain then travels to somewhere in the east called the land of Nod. I believe this is what is now northern India. Their he finds a wife and has sons and they find wives. This tells me there were already people living there. The Kenites (sons of Cain) are mentioned in at least 11 places in the Old Testament. I believe the descendants of Cain became the Romany Gypsy people who are known to have originated in northern India and migrated across Asia and into Europe, remember the words:

"a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth."

And keep in mind that if they can't be farmers or stay in one place then they have to find other ways to make a living.

Now let's remember that all this was also before the flood. So why are all the races still living? As far as we know there were only 8 people on the ark! Is everyone on earth descended from them? Of course not! Now there are 3 possibilities:

1) the flood wasn't world wide.

2) there were more than 8 people on the ark. This is possible because it doesn't say they took 2 of every animal, but instead it says 2 of every flesh. In my opinion that can be interpreted in more than one way.

3) a combination of 1 and 2.



And don't forget: no fish that doesn't have both fins and scales!

Alan


Again, it depends upon which "breathed words" you think were REALLY breathed, and which words you choose to interpret as not breathed. For example, the testaments say 2 of every animal, or, 2 of every unclean animal and 7 pairs of the clean ones.

Of course, given the chronology of the bible, this means Noah knew what was clean or unclean before the rules of what was clean and what was unclean had been formally established. Leviticus gives some versions, but says bats are birds, that rock badgers chew their cud for example, and doesn't list enough to categorize the entire fauna of the planet.

The bible also said the flood was world wide, and killed every living thing not in the ark.

It also said how deep it was over the entire planet.


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Old 02-16-2015, 02:47 AM #4985
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

This is the only Ark I believe in.

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Old 02-16-2015, 04:15 PM #4986
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
The Bible was written by forty different authors oven many centuries, all inspired by God, to write down what He has commanded.
All are in harmony and all point to the Saviour, Jesus.
Just look at all the prophecies in the Old Testament detailing and telling us what the Messiah would be and what He would do and how it will be done.
All you have to do is read the whole Book and it's all there.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Andrew


RB
How do you know they were inspired by god, and not say just... ?

Why haven't there been any updates lately? Like say to address the question of aliens?

What would you say if you were to meet a man, and he claimed to speak with divine authority?


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Old 02-16-2015, 06:44 PM #4987
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

If I met a guy who claimed that I wouldn't believe him unless he had proof beyond doubt which Jesus had.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:23 PM #4988
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

:facepalm: Jesus didn't write the bible.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:28 PM #4989
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
If I met a guy who claimed that I wouldn't believe him unless he had proof beyond doubt which Jesus had.
What proof and where is it presented?
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:55 PM #4990
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
How do you know they were inspired by god, and not say just... ?

Why haven't there been any updates lately? Like say to address the question of aliens?

What would you say if you were to meet a man, and he claimed to speak with divine authority?
It can be hard to tell.

There have been updates but not everyone recognizes them as such. The question of aliens has been addressed by the Vatican but not by other churches as far as I know.

I would not easily trust someone claiming to speak with divine authority. If it was for real then they wouldn't even need to make that claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
If I met a guy who claimed that I wouldn't believe him unless he had proof beyond doubt which Jesus had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
:facepalm: Jesus didn't write the bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trencheel303 View Post
What proof and where is it presented?
He didn't say anything about Jesus writing the bible. The proof relies on the assumption that parts of the New Testament are historically accurate. If Jesus could really do miracles such as healing the sick or turning water into wine or walking on water etc. then these things would have convinced people.

Alan
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Old 02-17-2015, 12:59 AM #4991
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
It can be hard to tell.

There have been updates but not everyone recognizes them as such. The question of aliens has been addressed by the Vatican but not by other churches as far as I know.

I would not easily trust someone claiming to speak with divine authority. If it was for real then they wouldn't even need to make that claim.
See, now there at least we can agree. If there was a god, he/it certainly wouldn't care in the least about what anyone felt or did with reference to him or anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
He didn't say anything about Jesus writing the bible. The proof relies on the assumption that parts of the New Testament are historically accurate. If Jesus could really do miracles such as healing the sick or turning water into wine or walking on water etc. then these things would have convinced people.

Alan
Google David Blaine. Or for that matter any number of performers out there.

You will find all kinds of superhuman achievements. Are they too, divine? If one tells you cut off your left testicle, are you going to just do it?

No of course not. You'll question what you're being asked to do, and dismiss the request as being unreasonable. Yet you do not apply a 10th of that scrutiny to a book written, and rewritten about a man who may, or may not have existed, and may or may not have performed any miracles, of which there currently exists zero proof, except a large multinational for profit organization that has in the past countenanced bloodshed.

See, your second sentence... you're assuming it's true. How do you make such an assumption when there is no proof to support it? Even if there is some truth to the story of jesus, is there not truth to be found in the books of say Harry Potter?
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Old 02-17-2015, 01:25 AM #4992
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Are you suggesting that history ceases to be history and becomes only fiction after enough time passes? The books of Harry Potter are works of fiction, they are not history.

Alan
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