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Old 02-13-2015, 08:16 PM #4961
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



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Old 02-13-2015, 09:37 PM #4962
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Doesn't the "no true scotsman fallacy" not apply in this case since my reasoning did not lead to the conclusion that "no true Christians would excetra" but rather that Christ's teaching does not support the actions of the crusades?
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Old 02-13-2015, 09:45 PM #4963
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

It still applies since you're just using a different way to identify the group with which you want to associate.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:00 PM #4964
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well I must be dumb then, because I still don't follow.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:07 PM #4965
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ok, let's try this another way. Who was responsible for the crusades?
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:18 PM #4966
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

The people involved, Christians.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:21 PM #4967
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Ok, let's try this another way. Who was responsible for the crusades?
People who thought they were true Christian.
Show me where Jesus tells us to go act like this?
People, just remember, not all who say Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom !

Quote:
Originally Posted by KJV
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
I will not have to give account for the crusaders, nor the Catholics, Orthodox, Mormons, JW's, etc.

I will only have to give account for my self.
And so will everyone.
Don't turn your back on the true Gospel and the true Christian Life just because others have tainted it.

You will be asked to give account of your life once you die.


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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
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“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:27 PM #4968
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

People who thought they were true Christian? So why were they not REAL christians?

I found this historical timeline very interesting: Timeline for the Crusades and Christian Holy War
It opens with this tidbit of information...

The crusades were a series of holy wars called by popes with the promise of indulgences for those who fought in them and directed against external and internal enemies of Christendom for the recovery of Christian property or in defense of the Church or Christian people. Crusades were characterized by the taking of vows and the granting of indulgences to those who participated. Like going on pilgrimage, to which they were often likened, crusading was an act of Christian love and piety that compensated for and paid the penalties earned by sin. It marked a break in earlier Christian medieval conceptions of warfare in that crusades were penitential warfare. Crusades combined the ideas of: a) Holy War and b) and Pilgrimage to produce the concept of "indulgence" (remission of penance and/or sin granted by papacy for participation in sacred activity).


It goes on and explains very clearly by whom these campaigns were authorized and the actions taken.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:50 PM #4969
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I gotta say RB I like your style.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:51 PM #4970
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Warne View Post
People who thought they were true Christian? So why were they not REAL christians?
Did Jesus ever advocate violence?
Did he not heal the ear of the soldier who came to arrest him (whom Peter cut off with a sword)?

Does not the word "Christian" mean to "be Christ like" ?

Many will claim to do (a lot of awful) things in Jesus' name, but are they "Christ like"?

I will only have to give account for my actions (and so will you).
And guess what?
We can't use the fact that others did atrocities in His Name, as an excuse not to obey Him.

You get pulled up by the police for a crime.
You appear before the judge and he says you're guilty of that crime.
You can't say, I don't recognise your authority because others have committed worse crimes (murder) and claim they are innocent and get off scott free.

No, each person will face the Law, both here on earth and on Judgement day.

RB
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:54 PM #4971
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I gotta say RB I like your style.
Jesus only answered Satan back, out of the scriptures.
Satan always tried to (and still does) twist the scriptures.

I try and answer people back only from the scriptures.
The Word of God is above all else.
__________________
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─────────────────────────────────☀
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
─────────────────────────────────☀
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Old 02-13-2015, 11:00 PM #4972
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
You will be asked to give account of your life once you die.
Prove it.

Oh thats right.

You can't.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:11 AM #4973
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Prove it.

Oh thats right.

You can't.
I have proved it to myself and that's enough for me.
What you do with it is up to you.
You will not benefit from my belief in the Word of God, you have to prove it for yourself.

Have you done your own research into what Jesus has said and claimed?
Have you read the whole Jesus account story?

Or have you dismissed everything because some priest raped a little child somewhere and you say, "that's it, I refuse to follow Jesus because such-and-such told me that christains are hypocritical"?


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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him
should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world,

but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned;
but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
(John 3:16-21)
─────────────────────────────────☀
If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from
the dead, you will be saved.
For it is with your heart that you believe unto righteousness
and it is with your mouth that you confess
your faith and
are saved.
(Romans 10:9-10)
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:33 AM #4974
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
The people involved, Christians.
Christians who acted at the behest of the (insert text) church?

Christians who believed their actions to be sanctified according to what religion?

See, unlike the examples for evil atheists you brought up earlier where the fallacy would not apply, these didn't just happen to be people who were christian and did something bad, quite the contrary they did something bad because their believed themselves to be true good fearing christians.

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
People who thought they were true Christian.
And who are you to make that claim? Because according to every historical account of the events these people thought much the same. That they too were christians.

Where do you derive the authority to make that decision that YOU are a true christian and they were not?

If you have that authority, does not every else as well?

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Show me where Jesus tells us to go act like this?
Okie dokie neighborino:

"Luke 16:17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one dot of the Law to become void."

Now that's in the new testament, which brings back in effect literally every dot of old testament.

Do you need examples from the old testament commanding violence, because there are quite a few?

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Don't turn your back on the true Gospel and the true Christian Life just because others have tainted it.
That's just it... these weren't just some people... these were popes, priests, pastors, reverends, etc,. and their followers who like you claim christianity as their own.

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Did Jesus ever advocate violence?
I don't know. Never met the guy. Never read anything he wrote.

How do you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
I try and answer people back only from the scriptures.
The Word of God is above all else.
Where did those scriptures come from?

How do you know that they are the word of god, except to believe what the scriptures themselves tell you?

That's the point you see... I don't know.

I don't have all the answers, but you claim that you do.

So... prove it.
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:47 AM #4975
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I'm not denying that Scotsman put sugar on their porridge, I'm saying it is not because he is Scotsman, that be puts sugar on his porridge.
Oh, you think the crusades didn't happen because of Christianity.

That's cute.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:25 AM #4976
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by RB astro View Post
Or have you dismissed everything because some priest raped a little child somewhere and you say, "that's it, I refuse to follow Jesus because such-and-such told me that christains are hypocritical"?
No I've dismissed it because it spreads beliefs that aren't proven to be true, and in some cases are proven wrong, and I will not partake in nor support the spreading of misinformation as fact.

Not to mention, though religion does try an spread some good ideas and morals around, it gets lost when I see photos and videos of people standing on street corners with signs that slander and condemn homo***uals. How many homo***ual persons have committed suicide because they are told they are unnatural and are shunned by everyone around them? How many get attacked, verbally and physically, by someone who doesn't even see them as human beings?

Its a disgusting way to treat fellow human beings over something they have no control over. And the worst part is, it doesn't even harm anyone. Homo***uality is the business of the two partners involved, and nobody else's.

Its one of the reasons I'm proud to be part of a country that allows anyone to get married to whomever they wish. And we're all happier for it.

I refuse to accept any god and/or belief system that doesn't treat everyone as equals regardless of race, gender, ***ual orientation, or beliefs. And by supporting, or being part of a belief system such as exampled above, you are aligning yourself with people who discriminate and harm others because of something written down in a book.
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