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Old 02-11-2015, 12:57 AM #4913
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



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Old 02-11-2015, 01:16 AM #4914
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Wow, after watching that video and all its attacks on religion, I'm about ready to defend some of the positive aspects such as community. Double edged sword it is for many who don't belong, i.e in the Islamic lands today who wish to bring the same upon the entire world.
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Old 02-11-2015, 01:26 AM #4915
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Wow, after watching that video and all its attacks on religion, I'm about ready to defend some of the positive aspects such as community. Double edged sword it is for many who don't belong in the Islamic lands today who wish to bring the same upon the entire world.
It is incredibly disgusting and offensive, I could only watch 5 minutes of it, I am now going to go buy a canadian flag just so I can burn it along with a Koran!

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Old 02-11-2015, 02:53 AM #4916
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Wait why a Canadian flag?

Also how is it offensive? Nothing he said was untrue.
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:06 AM #4917
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

C word over and over and over, was watching it on my phone at DQ and had to turn the volume down quite a bit
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:13 AM #4918
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Have any of you seen the full video of the jordanian pilot? Now in Washington they're voting on using military force against ISIS. All I can think is "They are burning people alive, they need to be stopped asap"
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Old 02-11-2015, 03:48 AM #4919
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I tried to find the full video, unable. Human beings are too much of a warrior race. Quite honestly, life has its pleasures, but with the crap going on in the world today, with our politicians far from representing the average citizen, I don't see things getting better in this country before they get far far worse and sometimes, rarely, but sometimes I wish I could get off this crazy ride, the world is getting better and worse at the same time in many ways, hard to feel secure anymore.

Ah, maybe it's all just a colorful ride anyway

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"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 02-11-2015, 11:32 AM #4920
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Have any of you seen the full video of the jordanian pilot? Now in Washington they're voting on using military force against ISIS. All I can think is "They are burning people alive, they need to be stopped asap"
Their stock in trade propaganda stunts are high production value executions of their "enemies", which they think (Sometimes correctly) will strike terror into those who might oppose them, and make them seem strong/invulnerable because they can act with impunity...which in turn makes it easier to recruit those that might join them thinking that they are therefore the winning side, etc.

What they don't count on, or, just don't care about, is that the opposite reaction can be triggered, galvanizing their opponents into action to stop the atrocities.

Jordan was on the fence about ISIS, but, burning their pilot was enough to pull them over to full on opposition. I don't know if they will continue so as to help crush ISIS, or if they simply wanted revenge alone.

In the meantime though, it appears that if countries are "all in", OTHER countries will also go all in on this, as they won't feel like they are fighting alone.

Many middle eastern concerns are quasi-sympathetic to ISIS, as fundamental religious beliefs are rampant in the middle east, and, all ISIS is fighting for (Ostensibly) is to have everyone in the world follow THEIR fundamentalist Muslim beliefs. The fact that it is also a business, and they will accrue great wealth if allowed to continue and turn conquered territories into religion-run states, will become more obvious later (To borrow a page from the Catholic Church, during ITS fundamentalist beginnings, etc).

As often happens with religious beliefs, one group or person's interpretation tends to differ from another's, so, they have to kill the dissenters.


So, just like the Catholic Church used propaganda about ITS victories and fighting for THEIR "True Religion" to recruit Crusaders and invade the middle east and murder the Muslims, and, the way that at first they WERE winning, BECAUSE they terrified their victims, and BECAUSE the Muslims initially tried to bargain with the Crusaders, etc...the Crusaders ALSO initially murdered and pillaged at will.

After a while, the middle east's Muslims realized that they had to rally to save themselves, and they joined together, and fought an organized military campaign to defeat the Crusaders, who never won another war after that point, and, eventually, the Church was unable to get more Crusaders to join/attack, and the campaign was abandoned.

So, hopefully, the ISIS "Crusaders" will meet a similar fate as the Catholic Crusaders, as the rest of the modern world unites to defeat yet another fundamentalist religious invader.


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Old 02-11-2015, 05:21 PM #4921
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

So imagine you die, meet god, ask him, why did you make us believe that praying to you is good, and he replies...

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Old 02-11-2015, 05:28 PM #4922
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Parking dispute, not bias, triggered triple murder, say NC police | Fox News
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Old 02-11-2015, 05:50 PM #4923
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Scary world we live in when Fox is the voice of reason.

In other news: http://www.hindustantimes.com/bhopal...1-1315925.aspx

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Old 02-11-2015, 08:50 PM #4924
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I tried to find the full video, unable.
I wouldn't recommend watching it, but my method was to google it, jump to page 10 then start sifting from there.



And for you IE - Random googled link about bad things that atheists did. I don't understand your purpose for posting anti-Christian links, mine was just to show whatever game you're playing it can be played from both sides. I won't be digging up any more, but I do think it would be good if you posted your own thoughts when you share articles of that nature.

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Old 02-11-2015, 09:00 PM #4925
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
And for you IE - Random googled link about bad things that atheists did. I don't understand your purpose for posting anti-Christian links, mine was just to show whatever game you're playing it can be played from both sides. I won't be digging up any more, but I do think it would be good if you posted your own thoughts when you share articles of that nature.

10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse
Here's the difference. None of those 10 people used their atheism as the justification for their actions.

They just happened to be atheist and horrible people.

Religious people do. They specifically cite religion as the cause for their actions, whether it be ISIS/ISIL, WBC, the Scientologists, or any other groups out there.

Edit: Note the last two posts, neither are anti christian... you're getting offended before you even bother to click the link. You think I'm against Christianity? YES I AM. But I'm also against every other organized religion out there. Refer to the goat f**king game above

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Old 02-11-2015, 09:29 PM #4926
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Here's the difference. None of those 10 people used their atheism as the justification for their actions.

They just happened to be atheist and horrible people.

Religious people do. They specifically cite religion as the cause for their actions, whether it be ISIS/ISIL, WBC, the Scientologists, or any other groups out there.

Edit: Note the last two posts, neither are anti christian... you're getting offended before you even bother to click the link. You think I'm against Christianity? YES I AM. But I'm also against every other organized religion out there. Refer to the goat f**king game above
Trust me I'm not without a sense of humor, I did lol at the goat game, and I must admit I even lol'd a a little at your post #4848. I just seems to be very superficial to examine and criticize religion by dropping articles about "horrible people" who either have a religions affiliation or scapegoat it. Aside from movements like ISIS or the crusades these people are statistical outliers and are getting a lot more focus than the bulk of religion.

Horrible people exist atheist or not, and I would argue their crimes come from themselves and not necessarily from the tenants of morality of their religion. I'm generalizing though.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:02 PM #4927
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Horrible people exist atheist or not, and I would argue their crimes come from themselves and not necessarily from the tenants of morality of their religion. I'm generalizing though.
This is true, I agree however, I begin to have a very serious problem with religion when it is the very rationale used by these people.

I do not doubt for a second that were they secular/atheist they would still be horrible people, committing heinous crimes, but they would not have nearly as much support, and as a result capacity to do harm.

It bothers me that they use religion as a shield, and other religious people, who claim to represent a majority do speak up for them, or offer tacit silent approval.

Just look at what the Pope said in response to the Charlie Hebdo murder...

Quote:
It’s normal. It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.
The man was murdered for cartoons!

Now I'm sure this is the kind of thing that pisses off many, many, followers of the respective religions, and probably angers you too, but as an outsider looking in you begin to see that it's not misappropriation of religion that is the problem, it is that religion can be used as an excuse.
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Old 02-12-2015, 01:53 AM #4928
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I wouldn't recommend watching it, but my method was to google it, jump to page 10 then start sifting from there.



And for you IE - Random googled link about bad things that atheists did. I don't understand your purpose for posting anti-Christian links, mine was just to show whatever game you're playing it can be played from both sides. I won't be digging up any more, but I do think it would be good if you posted your own thoughts when you share articles of that nature.

10 People Who Give Atheism a Bad Name - Listverse
Oddly, most of those listed were not atheists. They were falsely associated by groups who WANTED THEM TO BE atheists though....ironically, for the communists, by their own propaganda. (Communists seem to have patterns of wanting to espouse atheism to wrest away Church control, and then later, use that power themselves....leading to a bizarre mix of claiming to be atheists while practicing religions, etc)

Even if atheists though...its a short list, and just BEING an atheist, OR a theist is not really relevant most of the time.

1) Stalin was raised Catholic. He had a scholarship to seminary school. He DID wipe out a lot of religious organizations later, for political purposes, and he did abandon CHRISTIANITY, but, his private papers and confidants confirm he was a theist in private, but did not want the public to know, given his stance on eliminating church control.

For generations the entire populace of Russia had been taught that the head of state was supposed to be close to god. At the time in question, the head of the church in Russia was a tyrant. The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god. Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church in order to intensify patriotic support for the war effort. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.


2) Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist. So, again, not CHRISTIAN, but, not an atheist.

3) Mao Zedong was raised a Buddhist. He later became a Taoist. Not a CHRISTIAN, but, not an atheist. He also wrote poems about god, etc, in his private life.

4) Benito Mussolini was yet another public atheist, yet, he's the one who freed clergy from taxes, and initiated a lot of programs to ban abortion, regulate how woman could dress, ban homo***uality, ban birth control, etc.

In 1929 Mussolini signed an agreement with the Vatican under which the Church received authority over marriage and was compensated for property that had been seized decades earlier. Pope Pius XI afterwards referred to Mussolini as the “man whom providence has sent us.”

5) Jims Jones lead a religious cult, but was more of a communist overall. He publicly tried to separate himself from the church he founded as sometimes an agnostic, and sometimes an atheist, because he was courting the communist party, and, he thought that would help him.

6) Jeffrey Dahmer asked for a bible when sent to prison, and, went to church services in prison, and, actually was himself murdered on his way back from the chapel after a service. So, While there were plenty of fake quotes here and there, etc...his actions indicated that he was an evil whacko, no doubt, but, a CHRISTIAN. Sources indicate that he was a born again CHRISTIAN.

7) Kim Jong Il family, historically, was raised Christian, but, essentially publicly believed HIMSELF a god in public, and, had his subjects worship HIM. His writings are so awash in propaganda, and eyewitness accounts by those with him of his performance of miracles, that its hard to say WHAT this whack job believed, really.

8) Than Shwe was not an atheist at least privately either. Than Shwe is said to rely heavily on advice from his soothsayers, a style of ruling dating back to Ne Win. So, a superstitious person cannot be an atheist.

9) Napoleon Bonaparte was a Deist, as were many men of his time and social status, analogous to many of the US's founding fathers such as Jefferson, etc. (Not an atheist either)

10) Alfred Kinsey was raised a devout christian. He was a bit crazy, and definitely kinky. He hated potatoes like no one's business, he fudged accounts of pedophilia that he'd gotten interviewing some pedophiles, and represented the accounts as being from many other sources to bolster the limited data, leading to accusations that the data was from him himself for example, he also over represented some other data in a similar fashion. Like many many scientists, such as Einstein, etc, he seems to have also actually been an atheist...later in his life. According to most sources, the Church's position on his bi-***uality drove him away from his prior Christian faith.





So, as a list of people who give atheists a bad name, its fairly short on atheists.

I'm a little surprised it left off Hitler, another popular Catholic - begging off on his "mysticism". He WAS heavily (also) into mysticism though, so, that part is at least valid, in of itself. (But they didn't go that route to leave Shwe off, etc)


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