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Old 01-22-2015, 05:22 PM #4673
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well I don't believe in a God that has no credible evidence of existing. So going against some silly book is of no concern to me.

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Old 01-22-2015, 06:13 PM #4674
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
If you have a basis for this belief I would love to hear it.

@ USAbro

I believe most of those 18 to an extend but each one could be a lengthy topic of debate on it's own and is not so simply stated. One thing that sticks out to me though is the 6500yrs old earth. The earth is not 6500 years old.



Stalin?


Note to LPF atheists, if my presence in this thread is not appreciated just let me know, I don't want to waste either of our time anymore.

I can't speak for every one, but I for one would never be offended by a discussion of beliefs. Those who disagree with me have the opportunity to open my mind to new thoughts...and, I welcome that.

I enjoy humor, and, if my beliefs are made fun of because they seem silly to someone, that's great...I won't be offended, and, I hope if I use humor as a foil to make my points, I hope others take it in the intended spirit.


As for Stalin:

Joseph Stalin was raised to be a Catholic Priest and was known to be religious by those in his circle while a younger man, etc.

Stalin initially made a vast effort to rid Russia of religion. It was the only way he knew to seize power of the country:

For generations the entire populace of Russia had been taught that the head of state was supposed to be close to god. At the time in question, the head of the church in Russia was a tyrant. The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god.

Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

Stalin was not exactly a nice guy, etc...but, he was not an atheist.

He has been characterized as more of a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use atheism to gain control, but DID USE religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution.


BTW-

Pol-Pot for example, was a Theravada Buddhist....not an atheist...in case he's next on your list of church distributed list of atheists who weren't.




I am SO relieved that USAbro stops short of being one of those bible thumpers who claim the earth is 6,500 years old and that the Noah story is true.

So, if the Noah story is a myth...what other biblical stories do you also consider to be myths?

Do you believe in talking snakes?

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Old 01-22-2015, 06:39 PM #4675
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Stalin?


Note to LPF atheists, if my presence in this thread is not appreciated just let me know, I don't want to waste either of our time anymore.
Stalin never used atheism as the rationale for the atrocities that were committed under his rule, and publicly distanced himself from the purges.

He was an atheist who did terrible things. He didn't do terrible things in the name of atheism, only in the name of power, and his own ego.

This is quite contrary to purges that were justified with purely with religious motivation though they also had roots in politics, and finance.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I like your presence on this thread... unlike some members you don't contradict yourself, and put thought into your answers... I disagree with them but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the discussion.
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Old 01-22-2015, 06:45 PM #4676
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Stalin never used atheism as the rationale for the atrocities that were committed under his rule, and publicly distanced himself from the purges.

He was an atheist who did terrible things. He didn't do terrible things in the name of atheism, only in the name of power, and his own ego.

This is quite contrary to purges that were justified with purely with religious motivation though they also had roots in politics, and finance.

Can't speak for anyone else, but I like your presence on this thread... unlike some members you don't contradict yourself, and put thought into your answers... I disagree with them but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the discussion.
Stalin wasn't an Atheist though...he just banned religion to allow himself to gain power. After he was in power, he reestablished the church's role in Russia, and even opened some previously closed religious institutions.

(See my post above about Stalin)



So, again, no atheistic mass murders or genocides. All the ones you probably THINK/Heard were done by Atheists were propagandized claims that were used by the church to distance themselves from their own well documented history of mass murder and genocide in the name of religion.


Of course, to be fair, just because someone who believed in god was responsible for a murder, genocide, etc, it doesn't automatically mean that their belief in god caused them to engage in murder or genocide.

Otherwise, we could say people who drank milk as a child were responsible for more murders and genocides than any other group in history....etc.




Its MORE ABOUT those in power manipulating the populace using the populace's belief systems to motivate them to action(s)...than about GOD telling the people in power to kill.

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Old 01-22-2015, 07:30 PM #4677
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
I can't speak for every one, but I for one would never be offended by a discussion of beliefs. Those who disagree with me have the opportunity to open my mind to new thoughts...and, I welcome that.

I enjoy humor, and, if my beliefs are made fun of because they seem silly to someone, that's great...I won't be offended, and, I hope if I use humor as a foil to make my points, I hope others take it in the intended spirit.


As for Stalin:

Joseph Stalin was raised to be a Catholic Priest and was known to be religious by those in his circle while a younger man, etc.

Stalin initially made a vast effort to rid Russia of religion. It was the only way he knew to seize power of the country:

For generations the entire populace of Russia had been taught that the head of state was supposed to be close to god. At the time in question, the head of the church in Russia was a tyrant. The Russians were already disposed to servility and all Stalin did was exploit these two facts, and place himself in the position of god.

Once Stalin was firmly seated in office, he revived the Russian Orthodox Church. Stalin was part of a council convened to elected a new church Patriarch. Then the Russian theological schools were opened, and thousands of churches began to function. Even the Moscow Theological Academy Seminary was re-opened, after being closed since 1918.

Stalin was not exactly a nice guy, etc...but, he was not an atheist.

He has been characterized as more of a secular minded religious opportunist, which is a personal character trait. He did not use atheism to gain control, but DID USE religious principles that were modified to fit his own, sick and twisted method of revolution.


BTW-

Pol-Pot for example, was a Theravada Buddhist....not an atheist...in case he's next on your list of church distributed list of atheists who weren't.




I am SO relieved that USAbro stops short of being one of those bible thumpers who claim the earth is 6,500 years old and that the Noah story is true.

So, if the Noah story is a myth...what other biblical stories do you also consider to be myths?

Do you believe in talking snakes?
When did I say the Noah story isn't true? Is there any archeological evidence to support the claim that dinosaurs didn't exist with man?
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:31 PM #4678
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by will manners View Post
....
Fixed that for you. (Note: It is not my intention to offend anyone who may be of an Islamic back-round, the operative phrase here is 'severely delusional adherents', I.e. they where misguided.)....

Let us not forget that all the biggest genocides in history were by atheists. You may say that Hitler was born a Catholic, but he was a self proclaimed atheist who strongly opposed Christianity......

No, people should believe what they want to believe regardless of what is actually the truth.
wow. trying to bring the atheists down to the religion's level huh. the pot calling the kettle black. as others pointed out, the few cases where a mass murderer had no belief in god were not done because of it. it's entirely likely that god is not the real reason for a lot of religious wars, but it's used as the excuse. as I have said, with or without religion, good people will do good, bad people will do bad. it takes religion to make good people do bad. whenever I hear this arguemnet, I usually assume the person using it is not well versed in the debate subject, or they would not make such easily disprovable claims

where the jews following Joshua misguided when they went on their rampage, as instructed by god? was god showing his infinite mercy then? how about when he had joshua have his men put their heels on the defeated kings necks, just before they were executed. was it a loving and merciful god who knows he's going to attempt forgiveness of the world, who told joshua to be so cruel? does it make sense to give people free will but wipe them out if they make you angry? doesnt that go against the parable jesus tells in matthew 13:24-30? (for reference, this is where jesus explains god will wait until the end to destroy the wicked, but let them grow up with the righteous until then) which is it? destroy the wicked on a whim before the end, or wait till judgement day? because the eternal, unchanging god seems to like it both ways

there are tons of times in the bible god takes away free will. the pharaoh holding the jews is one example. its not possible for god to have made us, and know our future, and at the same time say we have free will. if he made us and knows what we are going to do, we dont really have free will, we are following a program, like a robot. its also not really free when there are consequenses, which is why I likened it to coercion. no one really wanting love would use such a tactic, so clearly obedience ranks higher than love to god, so much for "god is love"

I suppose it makes some sense that god can kill who he wants, he knows their future. he happened to know that every baby killed in the old testament would turn out atheist, eff em. justified. but then why am i still alive? is there a re-conversion in my future? must be or god would've laid me the F*** out by now. ridiculous

will manners, did I read this wrong, or did you really mean this statement: "No, people should believe what they want to believe regardless of what is actually the truth."

read that aloud a few times and see if you still agree with it. while you may have a right to do so, you by no means should, esp if your belief requires you to interact with reality. my opinion is people should believe what is evidently true regardless of if they want to or not

Quote:
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When did I say the Noah story isn't true? Is there any archeological evidence to support the claim that dinosaurs didn't exist with man?
yes, quite a lot actually, while the only evidence to the contrary that I know, has been debunked. I'm reffering to the supposedly ancient rock carvings that depict dinosaurs but were later determined to be faked (the ica stones)
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:34 PM #4679
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
When did I say the Noah story isn't true? Is there any archeological evidence to support the claim that dinosaurs didn't exist with man?
Yes there is.

Do your research. I for one, am tired of you being spoon fed, only so you can ignore the information given to you.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:35 PM #4680
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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When did I say the Noah story isn't true? Is there any archeological evidence to support the claim that dinosaurs didn't exist with man?
LOL

Um, overwhelming evidence exists that the dinosaurs went extinct before man existed.

There is ZERO evidence that man coexisted with the dinosaurs. (There's tons of fake evidence made up by creationists, but they are trying to say the earth is ~ 6,500 years old, and, you agree its BILLIONS of years old...and NONE of their fake "evidence" has any merit, at all, as its ALL flawed, deeply and completely)


About the only loop hole is how you define a dinosaur...as birds are sort of representatives of that group....but, if you mean critters like T-Rex, etc...no, they were gone long before there were people.




And, there is zero evidence of a global flood, of any depth, let alone 5.5 miles deep, ever...in any time period.

There is evidence of individual floods, just as we see today...but, not all at the same time, and, not covering the globe, etc.



But, lets step back...you feel the Noah story is TRUE, or, you merely don't remember saying it wasn't?

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Old 01-22-2015, 07:40 PM #4681
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I never said I believe in a global flood, it could have just covered that one area.

However, what was Job speaking of when he referred to the Leviathan?
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:42 PM #4682
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

So then how much genocide does someone have to commit before they are not actually considered followers of the peaceful/loving religion they profess.
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:43 PM #4683
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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I never said I believe in a global flood, it could have just covered that one area.

However, what was Job speaking of when he referred to the Leviathan?
Um, OK, so you know the Noah story is not true...as in the Noah story, the entire earth was flooded, and, the flood was described as killing every living thing, everywhere NOT in the ark.

So, you believe that some areas can flood, just as they do today...OK.



Job was speaking of a sea monster...called Leviathan.

It has been described as eating one whale a day for example, and, in the bible, it says that god made a male and female Leviathan, but, later, worried that they might breed and destroy the world, he slew the female...and, the meat was saved for a banquet....at the end of time.

Why? You also believe in sea monsters?

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Old 01-22-2015, 07:46 PM #4684
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

And because of the massive failing points of the Noah's Ark story.

1) There isn't a hope that a ship massive enough to hold 2 of every animal could have been constructed with the basic tools of the suggested time period.

2) 2 of every animal wouldn't have been enough to maintain genetic diversity and all the species would have died out anyways.

3) There a millions of different species of animal on Earth. We don't even know of all of them because there are just so many. How did Noah collect them all?

4) What about the food chain? Oh shit, the Bengal tigers just killed and ate the last two rabbits in existence. Whoops, should have brought extras for food.

5) Disease. That many animals on one ship? Disease would have spread. Animals aren't very hygienic when confined.

6) What about the plants?

7 I) Where did all the water come from? We have a finite amount of water on this planet, and as you may have noticed, it doesn't cover the entire planet. Even if it rained for days.

7 II) Where did all the water go?
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Old 01-22-2015, 07:47 PM #4685
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

It really depends how the Bible is interpreted. I'm no expert, but I think it sounded like that's the only place everyone lived and he just wiped them out. But who knows?

God did say he would never destroy the earth with a flood again and made a covenant and his mark is the rainbow.

@Blarg King-Some can fly, some can swim, I could see 2 dogs becoming all the variety of canines we see today.

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Old 01-22-2015, 08:12 PM #4686
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
It really depends how the Bible is interpreted. I'm no expert, but I think it sounded like that's the only place everyone lived and he just wiped them out. But who knows?

God did say he would never destroy the earth with a flood again and made a covenant and his mark is the rainbow.

@Blarg King-Some can fly, some can swim, I could see 2 dogs becoming all the variety of canines we see today.


LOL

OK, we have ANOTHER belief....that people only lived in the middle east...so, the rest of the earth had no people, or animals?

Really?

Ever heard of a place called AFRICA?

How about Europe?

How about China?

Any of these ring a bell?

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Old 01-22-2015, 08:14 PM #4687
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Hmmm possibly, but idk. What's your goal here, like to convince me to be an atheist? Cause it ain't gonna work. Even if it wasn't my God, it's some supernatural power, I've no doubt about that.

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Old 01-22-2015, 08:16 PM #4688
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