Old 01-19-2015, 09:23 PM #4577
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
US bills are still that faded green color aren't they? XD
They're two generations behind Canadian money (the ones with birds on them), even our last generation was more sophisticated


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Old 01-19-2015, 09:39 PM #4578
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

LOL


I would back off the "pre-big bang" life being ruled out, as its possible that there are potentially an infinite number of big bangs going on in the infinite amount of space out there.

Essentially, expanding universe stuff expands until its out of steam, and, then, its mass would draw it all back in for another bang.

The room needed for billions of years of expansion is essentially nothing compared to INFINITE SPACE.





To me, the real problem with life forms finding each other in that infinite space is that the space, and the time overlaps, ARE OVER AN INFINITE RANGE.


IE: Lets assume we have ~ 30 billion years or so for two alien life forms to both exist at the same time within SOME SORT of reasonable range to detect each other...before their universe "bangs".

They need time to evolve, and, to get into space exploration, in time to catch each other's SHARED existence.


I'm sure that life has evolved over and over again...but, it would NOT surprise me if we keep missing each other due to the INFINITE DISTANCES, and, the relatively short time spans that must overlap within AN INFINITE amount of time, etc.


I COULD see a civilization having the foresight to predict and adapt to the knowledge that their sun will not last forever, and, to at least leave before they are engulfed in a red giant, etc.

Its also possible that these same critters will have the foresight to ALSO realize that the UNIVERSE is going to go BANG eventually too, and, that its a REALLY LONG TRIP to leave your UNIVERSE.


I don't know how fast we can go, ultimately, but, to leave the universe is probably a LONG trip no matter how fast you can go....its millions of years to reach things at the speed of light IN our universe for example.


So, we KNOW our time on EARTH is limited, and, we KNOW our universe's clock is ticking too (Slower at least...), so, if we were SMART, we'd all be working feverishly on figuring how to get THE F out of here! (For the sake of preserving humanity).



IF (BIG IF) some civilization managed to DO all that, THEY could survive big bangs, and, have TIME to evolve to a degree that we can only imagine.

WE have really only had ~ 4 billion years to evolve, and, we've only been "us" for the last 100k years or so. We've only started space exploration within the past 100 years or so.

If we evolve another 4 BILLION years, what will be be like by then?

We went from self replicating compounds, such as quartz and other things that self replicate to make crystals, etc, to amino acids, to all sorts of slimy and crawling and flying critters...in ~ 4 billion years.

ANOTHER 4 billion years could be so profound that I think we're well past imagining Nehru collars and shiny suits on people who look like us...we may not look like "us" any more...any more than we look like the wee beasties we looked like back then, etc.


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Old 01-19-2015, 10:12 PM #4579
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Okay yes life could have existed in a previous universe if the big bang/big crunch theory is true, but what I mean is life in this cycle of expansion couldn't have existed before the beginning of this cycle, unless there are parallel universes, and a race of beings was able to become advanced enough to seek refuge in another universe and return to ours.

But parallel universes, while theorized, remain highly unproven, and the ability to travel between them even more so.

So for the time being, I feel confident in saying that all life in this universe originated after the big bang.

As for the timeline of universe expansion/compression, I think theres more than enough time for intelligent races to evolve and make contact. Our universe is billions of years old, and to the best of our knowledge its still expanding.

Universal collapse is not something we will have to worry about, or even our species as we know it will have to worry about. By the time universal collapse is a problem, our species (if it survives billions of years) will have evolved to be something completely different than what we are now.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:27 PM #4580
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Okay yes life could have existed in a previous universe if the big bang/big crunch theory is true, but what I mean is life in this cycle of expansion couldn't have existed before the beginning of this cycle, unless there are parallel universes, and a race of beings was able to become advanced enough to seek refuge in another universe and return to ours.

But parallel universes, while theorized, remain highly unproven, and the ability to travel between them even more so.

So for the time being, I feel confident in saying that all life in this universe originated after the big bang.

As for the timeline of universe expansion/compression, I think theres more than enough time for intelligent races to evolve and make contact. Our universe is billions of years old, and to the best of our knowledge its still expanding.

Universal collapse is not something we will have to worry about, or even our species as we know it will have to worry about. By the time universal collapse is a problem, our species (if it survives billions of years) will have evolved to be something completely different than what we are now.


To focus your reply a bit...I don't mean parallel universes, I mean other universes so far away that they have their OWN bangs. (Or heat death/Freeze deaths, etc)

We have an INFINITE amount of space. That means there's ROOM for a universe to expand for billions of years at the speed of light....and not even get anywhere near ANOTHER universe doing the same thing.


Maybe we need another word or two for universe, vs the ENTIRE infinite space that's out there?



IE: We have planets and solar systems and galaxies and so forth...but so far I see a lot of silly talk of universes where a guy who's bald in our universe exists, but with hair, in another one, etc.

With infinite room, and infinite time....its silly to think that THE big bang and its attendant cosmic radiation, etc....was the FIRST time it had happened...or the last.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:44 PM #4581
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Its not a matter of distance though. If its inside our universe, its part of it. To our knowledge, this universe contains everything that ever has and ever will exist. You can't have a universe inside a universe.
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Old 01-19-2015, 10:54 PM #4582
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Its not a matter of distance though. If its inside our universe, its part of it. To our knowledge, this universe contains everything that ever has and ever will exist. You can't have a universe inside a universe.
LOL

Sort of my point, we need another word for this one.




To assume that THIS universe contains everything that has ever, and will ever exist, seems to me, a LOT like the early theories that didn't take other galaxies into account either, etc.



Think about the word "Infinite". That's a LOT of room, and, a LOT of time.


To me, there's about ZERO chance that our bang was the only one that ever existed, and a MUCH better chance of other bangs happening REALLY far away, right as we speak.


IE: We need a word for OUR universe to differentiate it from the other ones so far away we cannot detect them.



We call OUR star "The Sun" for example. We call the OTHER suns "stars". And so forth.

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Old 01-19-2015, 11:32 PM #4583
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Its not a matter of distance. No matter how far you travel in this universe it will always be this universe. You won't happen across another universe inside this one.

If other universes exist, they are inaccessible by any means we know of, and may be completely impossible to get to. The universe has rules that cannot be broken.

To say that everything is contained within this universe is accurate. We have no evidence at all that other universes exist.
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Old 01-19-2015, 11:55 PM #4584
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Its not a matter of distance. No matter how far you travel in this universe it will always be this universe. You won't happen across another universe inside this one.

If other universes exist, they are inaccessible by any means we know of, and may be completely impossible to get to. The universe has rules that cannot be broken.

To say that everything is contained within this universe is accurate. We have no evidence at all that other universes exist.

Logically, it is likely that they do though.

To say our solar system has 8 or 9 planets depending on if you count Pluto is also accurate...except, logically, some perturbances out WAAY past Pluto COULD be explained by a coupla more planets out there in the darkness.

So, yes, as far as facts go, sure....for now. We do tend to expand our knowledge of what's out there though, and, again, logically, either stuff comes back after a long time, or, it keeps going.

If it keeps going, there would be no bang UNLESS two expansions collide, etc.

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Old 01-20-2015, 12:40 AM #4585
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Pretty sure that the theory behind universal collapse is that eventually all the energy available in our universe will be used up, and all that will be left will be free floating base particles, and that lack of energy will cause the universe to stop expanding and collapse in on itself.
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Old 01-20-2015, 12:53 AM #4586
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I could see that point for an agnostic...
Bertrand Russel explains the atheist position succinctly.

Can you prove there ISN'T an invisible dragon that does not interact with the world in any way... in your garage at this very moment? Of course not. Do you therefore have to take the position "there may or may not be an invisible dragon in my garage"? Of course not. You are entitled (if not expected) to live your life under the assumption that such a dragon does not exist. The burden of proof is on the theist.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:02 AM #4587
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Personally I prefer his teapot example, but the invisible dragon is also good
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:24 AM #4588
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Can you prove there ISN'T an invisible dragon that does not interact with the world in any way...
Indeed.

Revelation 12:9
9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:
he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Andrew

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Old 01-20-2015, 01:48 AM #4589
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Collosians 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled that RB astro is a big poopy head. So Sayeth the Lord.

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Old 01-20-2015, 01:52 AM #4590
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Collosians 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled that RB astro is a big poopy head. So Sayeth the Lord.

LOL, you know, that's very true.
+ rep for you.

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And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
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Old 01-20-2015, 01:57 AM #4591
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
LOL

That's like saying you shouldn't use the calendar because the months and days are named after gods YOU don't believe in. (Well, maybe you do believe in them...but, feel free to explain if you feel the need)




I think Buddha was supposed to have died somewhere around 400 BC at the age of ~ 80, and Plato around 347 BC, also at a ripe old age, so, there's a good chance they were alive at ~ the same time. (Plato's dates are pretty well known, its Buddha's that are fuzzy)

I must say you have won on this point. I think you convinced me that that idea for an argument is off the table!

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Its not a matter of distance. No matter how far you travel in this universe it will always be this universe. You won't happen across another universe inside this one.

If other universes exist, they are inaccessible by any means we know of, and may be completely impossible to get to. The universe has rules that cannot be broken.

To say that everything is contained within this universe is accurate. We have no evidence at all that other universes exist.
Yes this is true, but there could be another dimension: heaven. The bible says that there will be a new heaven, and a new earth, but he actually never said it would be out of this universe though. I think I remember reading (but could be wrong), that heaven was temporary, and that that is where we go while God renews this earth, but I'm not clear on that.

Last edited by USAbro; 01-20-2015 at 02:02 AM.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:11 AM #4592
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ARG View Post
To be fair your currency is rather outdated, the USA hasn't kept up with modern bank notes that the rest of the world use.

Canada just released a new series in 2011, it features Canadian accomplishments in technology and exploration

Firstly thanks for offering ARG but I don't really like to play monopoly.


Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes , his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made so that they are without excuse.
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