Old 01-15-2015, 04:08 PM #4417
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
It looks absolutely nothing like that keychain. Might as well go ahead and base your view of women on Barbie, and men on Ken.
Don't make the mistake of not seeing the forest because you're spending too much time looking at the trees. At even only 8 weeks the base for a human being is already there.

@ Shakenawake
Quote:
the bible always says people arent alive until they take their first breath
The bible does not say this.

Does a baby in the womb not breathe through their mothers breath?


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Old 01-15-2015, 04:11 PM #4418
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Why do you believe God wrote the bible. Because he says so in the Bible. Why do you believe that? Because God wrote it.
I don't believe for a second "god" had anything to do with writing the bible.

The old testament, the new testament, the sea scrolls, the koran, or any other scripture. These were all man made, to explain what could not be explained with rational logic at the time, and to offer hope when in reality there is none.

What you're really saying is "I want to believe, therefore I believe."

Which I don't have a problem with, just so long as those beliefs don't impact me.

Which unfortunately they do.
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:17 PM #4419
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Don't make the mistake of not seeing the forest because you're spending too much time looking at the trees. At even only 8 weeks the base for a human being is already there.
Look at the fetus of a chicken, and a human, in early development, and tell them apart. You won't be able to without medical training.

You want to see a human being, and so you do, but the reality is, it's just a collection of cells, of proteins, of chemicals, nothing more.
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:23 PM #4420
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Look at the fetus of a chicken, and a human, in early development, and tell them apart. You won't be able to without medical training.

You want to see a human being, and so you do, but the reality is, it's just a collection of cells, of proteins, of chemicals, nothing more.
I believe there is a little more to human beings other than cells but otherwise you're correct, and as you did not establish your moral position abortion I have no arguments. Good day sir.
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:27 PM #4421
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

no, it doesnt.

exodus 21:22-25 details how if you injure a pregnant woman to a degree that she miscarries, you are only responsible for her injuries, not the death of the fetus. note that this is the KJV translation, the NIV translation changes it to sound like the death of the fetus may incur a death penalty for the assaulter, when that's clearly not what the text says originally.

numbers 5 11:-31 tells how to do a ritual with a priest causing your wife to miscarry if you suspect she had cheated

boom, the bible does not prohibit abortion, and it doesnt consider a fetus a person. the other examples you provide USA bro are not in appropriate context. or do you think Jeremiah 1:5 also implies we are people even before conception?

And yes, breath and life are often used together in the bible, breath of life and such. genesis 2:7 for example. other places too

ironically the bible contradicts itself so much, its often possible to back up both sides of an arguement with it
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Old 01-15-2015, 04:47 PM #4422
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I believe there is a little more to human beings other than cells but otherwise you're correct, and as you did not establish your moral position abortion I have no arguments. Good day sir.
I don't really have a moral position regarding it. Or to more exact, for me morality does not enter into the equation where abortion is concerned.

IMO pregnancy is a voluntary medical condition, and should be treated as such.

Woman wants to keep the child, great. She doesn't, also great. It should be her choice entirely, so long as she is mentally capable of making it.

My greater concern, and heartache is with the relatively healthy children who are already born, and into terrible conditions.
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:24 PM #4423
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
I don't believe for a second "god" had anything to do with writing the bible.

The old testament, the new testament, the sea scrolls, the koran, or any other scripture. These were all man made, to explain what could not be explained with rational logic at the time, and to offer hope when in reality there is none.

What you're really saying is "I want to believe, therefore I believe."

Which I don't have a problem with, just so long as those beliefs don't impact me.

Which unfortunately they do.
Sorry you misunderstood what I said. I was stating an example question you might ask, and then answering it, showing that the religion is based on circular reasoning.
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:28 PM #4424
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
no, it doesnt.

exodus 21:22-25 details how if you injure a pregnant woman to a degree that she miscarries, you are only responsible for her injuries, not the death of the fetus. note that this is the KJV translation, the NIV translation changes it to sound like the death of the fetus may incur a death penalty for the assaulter, when that's clearly not what the text says originally.

numbers 5 11:-31 tells how to do a ritual with a priest causing your wife to miscarry if you suspect she had cheated

boom, the bible does not prohibit abortion, and it doesnt consider a fetus a person. the other examples you provide USA bro are not in appropriate context. or do you think Jeremiah 1:5 also implies we are people even before conception?

And yes, breath and life are often used together in the bible, breath of life and such. genesis 2:7 for example. other places too

ironically the bible contradicts itself so much, its often possible to back up both sides of an argument with it
I've asked before. I the Bible does contradict itself, come out and bring 1contradiction and I will explain it. Do it now!


I think these were made for you Infinius.

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Old 01-15-2015, 05:44 PM #4425
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
And yes the Bible does say abortion is wrong. Abortion=murder. Murder=wrong.
The bible does say murder is wrong, yes, but it never said abortion is murder.

Citation please.

However the bible does have passages on how to make a women miscarry, if it were murder as you suggest then it would not tell you how to do it in the bible.
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:58 PM #4426
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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showing that the religion is based on circular reasoning.
Right... which is why it does not make sense to someone who is rational.
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Old 01-15-2015, 06:00 PM #4427
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

how about john 3:13 and 2 kings 2:11 (has anyone been to heaven other than Jesus?)

or psalms 112:1-3 and matthew 19:24 (is it good to be rich, or not?)

or john 10:30 and John 14:28 (are god and jesus the same entity?)

or exodus 20:13 and exodus 32:27 ( can we or can we not kill, according to god)

or Ephesians 2:8-9 and James 2:24 (are we saved by faith or works?)

or Exodus 21:23-25 and Matthew 5:39 (eye for eye or turn the other cheek?)

or Exodus 20:12 and Luke 14:26 (arbitrary honor for family or no?)

or Genesis 32:30 and John 1:18 (have any seen the face of god?)

or Ezekiel 18:20 and the entire concept of original sin, or Exodus 20:5 (are we culpable for our ancestor's wrong doing?)

just to name a few. I could come up with more. get to work rationalizing, cant wait to hear this
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Old 01-15-2015, 06:04 PM #4428
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Choose one of those, and we'll go over. Explain how it contradicts and I'll explain how it doesn't.
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Old 01-15-2015, 06:12 PM #4429
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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I think that could be thought of, as just killing the egg cell. The sunflower seed hasn't been activated until it goes into the soil.

@Teej, even though the replica is slightly "off" from the original, does that make it invalid?

And yes the Bible does say abortion is wrong. Abortion=murder. Murder=wrong.


I think the baby has a soul before the sperm cell and egg meet each other.

You know, I found the real reason I believe what I do. It's all because I believe the Bible.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; wonderful are Your works, and my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, when I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; and in Your book were all written the days that were ordained for me, when as yet there was not one of them.
Psalm 139:13-16.
OK, a woman is BORN with all the eggs she will ever carry. Men make and use or reabsorb sperm daily...

...so, the "baby, if he has a soul BEFORE the egg is fertilized, IS THE EGG.

So, woman have periods every month....and, flush these babies down the toilet or throw them in the garbage along with all the other discharges.

Should we be having funerals for all these babies?

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Old 01-15-2015, 06:17 PM #4430
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You know that's incorrect logic so stop it.
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Old 01-15-2015, 06:23 PM #4431
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
Should we be having funerals for all these babies?

Should we punish all men for being responsible for the deaths of trillions of potential babies?

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Old 01-15-2015, 06:23 PM #4432
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
You know that's incorrect logic so stop it.
Incorrect logic?

Why?

I took your given, and, continued to what it would imply if you were correct...you should not see that as incorrect unless you changed your mind.

IE: If the baby has a soul before sperm, and, all that's there is the egg, then, the egg is the baby and has the soul.

Do you no longer feel that the baby has a soul before it is fertilized?

Last edited by Teej; 01-15-2015 at 06:25 PM.
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