Old 01-10-2015, 08:13 PM #4273
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by kilter View Post
I don't think God will come and smite the people who didn't get to know him.
You and Mr. Duke are both self-professed Christians (I assume?). Either way, your position is another common position among Christians. Yet, this is a MAJOR point that you disagree on. Another demonstration of how your God does a very poor job at communicating his will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
salvation only requires Faith in Christ and the repentance of sins.


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Old 01-10-2015, 09:53 PM #4274
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Your god created these billions of people
No remember he only created two Then they somehow defied genetics and created the human population we have now.


Oh wait he also fathered Jesus so I guess he made 3 people


Supposedly we're all God's children. That means God got his own daughter pregnant. Also Adam and Eve's children would have had to do the reproductive dance with each other.

And they teach this stuff to children.
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Old 01-11-2015, 03:53 PM #4275
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

The conflict most people familiar with the fundamentalist religions have, is that the most strict/literal interpretations are progressively more ludicrous, and not relevant to them...

...so that most people who are born into a belief system, and, who therefore have to adopt it as their own to feel as though they believe what they are supposed to....

...simply modify what they believe the religion is...until it works for them.


So, if you hate gays, you keep the fundamentalist interpretations of the beliefs on homo***uality, and, ignore the parts right next to it that said the same thing about that chick you banged in HS...because you felt it was OK to bang that chick in HS, but think gays are disgusting, etc.

If you personally feel that god is good, and would not want to hurt people unfairly, you ignore the parts that say god WILL hurt these people, horribly and forever, and, simply believe that he won't.

So, a group of people can all get together, and say they are "the same religion", but, in reality...its in name only, as each will have a version that fits their own real beliefs.


I see similar interpretations in the automotive world for example. "I love my Jeep! I would never drive anything else!" It has a Chevy 350 engine, D-60 Dodge Axles, Ford Transmission, atlas transfer case, and I installed the body from my old Cadillac onto the frame...its so cool....Jeeps ROCK!"







So, one group of "Christians" say there's only god and no holy trinity and that the pope is just a guy who runs an organization of professional pedophiles who accept donations (Suggested amount = 10% of your income) to support their organization...but that Jesus was his son but also him.

Another group of Christians might say that the pope is god's representative here on earth, and that he is therefore infallible, and the word of god was breathed into the bible and every word is true...and only men should be priests, no premarital ***, no affairs, no two fabric clothing, and there's a holy trinity, etc.

And some feel that all good people would go to heaven and all bad ones will go to hell, as that seems fair.

And others might feel that all people who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and are sorry for their sins will go to heaven if if they were bad people their entire lives up to that point....and that all good people, no matter how good, will go to hell to be punished for all eternity, unless they ALSO do both of those things.



The actual religion and the actual belief systems of the members of that religion, will always be different among the overall population, because people believe whatever they believe.

If YOU simply cannot imagine a god who would torture a good person forever, you simply imagine that he would not, and, then, you can worship him.

If you are ok with a god who WOULD torture good people of ANOTHER religion forever, as you assume you won't be one of them for example....then, you don't have to change your belief system, and you can use the default fundamentalist interpretation.


All of the above should be considered within the context of relevancy.

1) Just because you believe something, or don't, it doesn't change what the actual truth is as to how it "all works".

IE: You may believe he would NOT torture good people forever, but, he might anyway if the bible is correct about how jealous and angry he is.

You may believe he WOULD torture good people forever, but, he might NOT torture them anyway if the bible is correct about how loving and merciful he is.

And so forth....you will tend to believe in the interpretation that comforts you....not a version you have objectively compared to all other options and chosen as most likely to be CORRECT.

2) The bible might be completely off base, and, nothing in it relevant...and the universe and gods, may have completely different characteristics, or agendas than guessed at or assumed.

3) There might not be a "god" other than the one you imagine anyway, so it might be all akin to an argument over whether mighty mouse or superman would win if they had a fight.



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Old 01-12-2015, 04:41 PM #4276
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
No remember he only created two Then they somehow defied genetics and created the human population we have now.


Oh wait he also fathered Jesus so I guess he made 3 people


Supposedly we're all God's children. That means God got his own daughter pregnant. Also Adam and Eve's children would have had to do the reproductive dance with each other.

And they teach this stuff to children.
He designed man and woman to come together and become "one."
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Old 01-12-2015, 05:32 PM #4277
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
That's ridiculous, and you know it. Your god doesn't "reach out" to anyone. He can only be "transferred" by other humans. And missionaries do NOT reach EVERYONE. Not even close. There are billions of people in history that have never heard of Christ.

So all Muslims, Jews, Hindus, atheists, Buddhists, and everyone that doesn't have YOUR set of beliefs as to what constitutes sin is going to hell. Got it

What a lovely outlook on your fellow man.
God working through the holy spirit in people is God calling, and everyone is accepted by Jesus. I don't know exactly how everything will go down on judgment day, but those who hear and reject Jesus will not be saved. Scripture teaches us to have an outlook of love, don't mistake it for a "haha you're going to hell" condescending view.

@ Blarg King

Here is a quote from "The New Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible" in the book of Genesis section. "If readers recgonize, for example, that creation accounts are neither histories nor modern scientific accounts of how things came to be, but rather theological texts that explain the world as it is, then readers avoid misinterpreting the text and forcing it to say things it does not convey." - These are good books to have, I don't think approaching the bible by taking every detail as literal or else it's all false is accurate.
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Old 01-13-2015, 12:33 AM #4278
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
don't mistake it for a "haha you're going to hell" condescending view.
I disagree. You think I deserve to go to hell (for something as trivial as rejecting something which has insufficient evidence, on top of that!) That is incredibly condescending.

On the off-chance you don't think I deserve it, you've put yourself above god, morally. That's naughty.
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Old 01-13-2015, 01:07 AM #4279
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I don't know exactly how everything will go down on judgment day, but those who hear and reject Jesus will not be saved.
See I don't outright reject Jesus as existing. What I reject is the whole son-of-god idea and supernatural abilities that I consider to be nonsense.

Could Jesus have been an actual person? Of course, but to me it would be more likely that he was a powerful and/or inspirational figure, and as history tends to do, got distorted and skewed and embellished over time until we got the whole "son-of-god".

That or he had history's best P.R agent...

Also, should it really matter weather or not I accept Jesus? If I'm a good person my entire life why should I lose out if I happen to be proven wrong? In fact my being a good person should count for more since I'm doing it of my own free will and not because I think it will save me from a judgement that may or may not ever happen.
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Old 01-13-2015, 01:12 AM #4280
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@Cyparagon

It's not only incorrect, but arrogant to tell someone what they think when the truth is you don't know what they think, but I will tell you what I think. Since on judgment day I will not be the judge and I am not omnipresent, I don't know what you deserve and I hold back from judging you.

@ Blarg King

Because the truth of it is not one us is "good". We are all fallible people and there is no specific level of good as if we can earn righteousness. It's is a gift to be accepted not something to be earned.
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Old 01-13-2015, 01:32 AM #4281
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
See I don't outright reject Jesus as existing. What I reject is the whole son-of-god idea and supernatural abilities that I consider to be nonsense.

Could Jesus have been an actual person? Of course, but to me it would be more likely that he was a powerful and/or inspirational figure, and as history tends to do, got distorted and skewed and embellished over time until we got the whole "son-of-god".

That or he had history's best P.R agent...

Also, should it really matter weather or not I accept Jesus? If I'm a good person my entire life why should I lose out if I happen to be proven wrong? In fact my being a good person should count for more since I'm doing it of my own free will and not because I think it will save me from a judgement that may or may not ever happen.
Are you a good person though? On who's standard?

Have you EVER lied, cheated, stolen, been arrogant, selfish, or been deceitful?

Answer these questions, and either me or Duke will explain further.

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Old 01-13-2015, 01:44 AM #4282
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Have you EVER lied, cheated, stolen, been arrogant, selfish, or been deceitful
99.9% of the human race is screwed then.

Have I done those things? Of course I have. Anyone who says they haven't is lying to themselves.

But I've never done any of those things in a serious situation nor has anyone every been harmed by my doing of those things.

If you can never do any of the things on your list, then heaven has a population of like 10 people.

Makes me even more glad I've never put any stock in an afterlife.

And if a judgement day ever comes, I'll be going down laughing.
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Old 01-13-2015, 01:58 AM #4283
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

No, they're not screwed. At least not all of them. Because even Christians do these things. But Jesus came and lived a perfect life, and then died on the cross.
He took that sin away for those who believe in him.

So no, everyone is not screwed.

The problem lies in those who don't believe in Jesus, as the son of God. You guys do the same sins as us, Christians, except for you have no one to pay, and so God says if you have no one to pay, then your gonna pay yourself, and unlike the death penalty, where you can choose the way you die (at least in some states), you go straight away to hell.

Edit: Oh, and the reason we have to pay, is because God is holy (never sinned or done any wrong and is incapable in his nature of doing any wrong even if he wanted to), and we're not holy, not at all, and God says that in his holiness, he has to be just, and justice means somebody's got to pay, and for us, it's Jesus that decided he loved us a lot so he took our place.

Oh and let's call this life, the pre-life, cause that's what it is.

And no, there wouldn't be like 10 people in heaven cause the Bible says in Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23

Hey Duke, am I saying this right?

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Old 01-13-2015, 02:13 AM #4284
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

More and more I'm so glad I don't believe in any religion.

So Jesus happened what? 2000-ish years ago supposedly? Modern humans emerged 100,000-ish years ago. So theres 98,000 years worth of people in hell because "God" took his sweet time setting up a system to counteract base human nature.

Definitely sounds like a deity worth worshiping.
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Old 01-13-2015, 02:24 AM #4285
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

People like Abraham had a relationship with God and definitely didn't go to hell.

God also says, if you never heard of him or knew him, he'll judge you by your conscience, and how you lived.

And no, I don't believe in an earth that old, but you never know, I certainly could be wrong.

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Old 01-13-2015, 02:27 AM #4286
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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But Jesus came and lived a perfect life, and then died on the cross.
I disagree, while Jesus did live a good life, and helped many people it was far from perfect. He once cursed a fig tree because it didn't bear any fruit, that's very petty. He also flipped tables when tax collectors were collecting at the temple.

Jesus was not perfect, he has been petty and he's let his anger get the best of him.
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Old 01-13-2015, 02:27 AM #4287
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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People like Abraham had a relationship with God and definitely didn't go to hell.
"Relationship"

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
And no, I don't believe in an earth that old, but you never know, I certainly could be wrong.
You are wrong. Its not a could.
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Old 01-13-2015, 02:34 AM #4288
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I disagree, while Jesus did live a good life, and helped many people it was far from perfect. He once cursed a fig tree because it didn't bear any fruit, that's very petty. He also flipped tables when tax collectors were collecting at the temple.

Jesus was not perfect, he has been petty and he's let his anger get the best of him.
He flipped the tables because they were dealing in a holy temple!!!

He cursed a bad fig tree to make a parable for his disciples.
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