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Old 01-07-2015, 02:56 AM #4193
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by vortish View Post
We all have our own opinions on what is what! Religion is no different! Humans have debating religion since the dawn of time! Some claim that their deities are the only ones and every one else is wrong. Many wars were fought because of religion! But when it comes down to it. Its a belief in something that is greater than one's self. No matter if your Christian, Hindu, Pagan, Muslim, or what ever. When you boiling down to the brass tacts its all really similar.
The idea is similar but the God isn't. oh boy if you choose the wrong one!


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Old 01-07-2015, 03:10 AM #4194
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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The idea is similar but the God isn't. oh boy if you choose the wrong one!
what makes you think you picked the right one?
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Old 01-07-2015, 03:41 AM #4195
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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The problem is, when we think we know everything...
Let me stop you right there. Who said that? Why are you putting words in mouths? Again! Misrepresenting someone's argument, and attacking that misrepresentation is known as a "straw man" and using one is poor debating move. Address the issue at hand - don't make shit up.
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Old 01-07-2015, 03:44 AM #4196
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Let me stop you right there. Who said that? Why are you putting words in mouths? Again! Misrepresenting someone's argument, and attacking that misrepresentation is known as a "straw man" and using one is poor debating move. Address the issue at hand - don't make shit up.
well stated
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Old 01-07-2015, 03:44 AM #4197
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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what makes you think you picked the right one?
Oh, I have my reasons. Maybe I chose the wrong one. That's too bad I guess. But I'm pretty sure I'm right.
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:41 AM #4198
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Oh, I have my reasons. Maybe I chose the wrong one. That's too bad I guess. But I'm pretty sure I'm right.
LOL

You agree with a minority of people on the planet....The majority of people on the planet say you picked the wrong one.

Maybe you should worship ALL the gods and religions, to make SURE you have the right one?

Oh, wait, the others ALSO say worshiping any of the others negates your salvation, making even the right choice not count due to the magical rules.

I guess you are screwed, damned to an eternity of hellfire and brim stone...no matter what you choose to believe?


Unless you find out they are ALL the "wrong religion" or, that there IS NO "wrong religion".

If they are ALL wrong, nothing happens. If they are all right, we don't actually know what happens, as all of them disagree on that part to some extent.

My guess is that, when everyone is able to look at a religion objectively, IE: Not at their own, but at others....sees the flaws, and considers the other religions to be silly superstitions/wrong....they see it as silly superstition.

That means when people are NOT blinded by their OWN upbringing, they see how silly the OTHER religion is. They cannot of course look objectively at their OWN religion of course....which is why the vast majority of people are whatever religion their ancestors were....its a random assignment.



So, you are whatever religion your parents are, and, so are most of the rest of the population. You ALSO, JUST LIKE everyone ELSE on the planet, believe that the religion randomly assigned to your ancestors is "the right one", and, that all of the others are wrong.

Amazing coincidence, don't you think?

All this independent thought, this desperate analysis of what religion to follow, knowing that choosing the wrong one, means an eternity of punishment (by a loving, compassionate and forgiving god).....

...and, they pretty much ALL come to the conclusion that by some miracle, they just HAPPENED to be born into a family that followed the "right religion".


Well, lucky YOU...as YOU were born into one of the ONLY families that had picked the right religion....saving you from being born into a family down the street's religion, which then of course, casts all your neighbor's who's ancestors picked wrong, into hell.

Great system.






And, really, simple logic says that you CAN know some things without having to know EVERYTHING. It also says that not knowing everything doesn't mean you know nothing.

So, sure, I'd trade everything I know for everything I don't, in a heartbeat...and come out so far ahead it wouldn't be funny....as statistically, compared to what there is TO know, I know nothing...but not literally nothing, statistically nothing.


If god knows everything (Definition of god includes that), and has a plan for everything, and is all powerful...

...then he would not NEED to "Do an Experiment" or a "test" "to see" the outcome. He would KNOW.



ONLY someone who DOESN'T know, NEEDS to "test" an idea, "to see" how it comes out.

The Bronze Age gents etc, who wrote this crap didn't realize this of course...and used the oldest excuse for cruelty in the book, one used by masters on their slaves for freakin ever. "I was just testing you"



God does a lot of "testing" for an all knowing all seeing all powerful entity. About average for a Bronze Age barbarian though.


Is it possible, for example, that all the superlatives, such as "perfect" omniscient, omnipotent, etc, were added by the church?

Maybe god is just a petty, jealous, insecure, neurotic and capricious supernatural entity, which is easier to support, historically at least....and NOT perfect?

Maybe more like the Greek Gods, with their idiosyncrasies, etc?

Maybe there is no salvation? Maybe GOD lives forever, but YOU die and that's it?

If YOU live after death, then, you're still essentially alive, and, then YOU are immortal too, and, maybe, one day, you'll get a planet of your own to be god of?


So, if up to YOU, what would the God-You do?

You get to make a planet, and populate it with anything you want to...that sounds fun!


You like lasers, so making light first sounds great, right?

What would YOU do next?

Last edited by Teej; 01-07-2015 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 01-07-2015, 11:50 AM #4199
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
LOL

You agree with a minority of people on the planet....The majority of people on the planet say you picked the wrong one.

Maybe you should worship ALL the gods and religions, to make SURE you have the right one?

Oh, wait, the others ALSO say worshiping any of the others negates your salvation, making even the right choice not count due to the magical rules.

I guess you are screwed, damned to an eternity of hellfire and brim stone...no matter what you choose to believe?


Unless you find out they are ALL the "wrong religion" or, that there IS NO "wrong religion".

If they are ALL wrong, nothing happens. If they are all right, we don't actually know what happens, as all of them disagree on that part to some extent.

My guess is that, when everyone able to look at a religion objectively, IE: Not at their own, but at others....sees the flaws, and considers the other religions to be silly superstitions/wrong....they see it as silly superstition.

That means when people are NOT blinded by their OWN upbringing, they see how silly the OTHER religion is. They cannot of course look objectively at their OWN religion of course....which is why the vast majority of people are whatever religion their ancestors were....its a random assignment.



So, you are whatever religion your parents are, and, so are most of the rest of the population. You ALSO, JUST LIKE everyone ELSE on the planet, believe that the religion randomly assigned to your ancestors is "the right one", and, that all of the others are wrong.

Amazing coincidence, don't you think?

All this independent thought, this desperate analysis of what religion to follow, knowing that choosing the wrong one, means an eternity of punishment (by a loving, compassionate and forgiving god).....

...and, they pretty much ALL come to the conclusion that by some miracle, they just HAPPENED to be born into a family that followed the "right religion".


Well, lucky YOU...as YOU were born into one of the ONLY families that had picked the right religion....saving you from being born into a family down the street's religion, which casts all your neighbor's who's ancestors picked wrong, into hell.

Great system.
Maybe I am screwed. But I'd say theirs more evidence than your willing to present, even if I can't, because I haven't studied it long enough. However, I'd say you would be better off choosing on, because you don't believe in any God, then what happens if I'm right.

Like I asked this before. Theoretical idea. What would you (Teej) say, if I ended up right all along, and you were in front of this "God," when you die"
Then what? I can hear it now. "Oh, please, let me in, forgive me!, I'm sorry, I didn't know! This kid on a forum warned me. Oh no, I hope that little pit over there isn't for me!

Last edited by USAbro; 01-07-2015 at 11:51 AM.
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:11 PM #4200
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Maybe I am screwed. But I'd say theirs more evidence than your willing to present, even if I can't, because I haven't studied it long enough. However, I'd say you would be better off choosing on, because you don't believe in any God, then what happens if I'm right.

Like I asked this before. Theoretical idea. What would you (Teej) say, if I ended up right all along, and you were in front of this "God," when you die"
Then what? I can hear it now. "Oh, please, let me in, forgive me!, I'm sorry, I didn't know! This kid on a forum warned me. Oh no, I hope that little pit over there isn't for me!
LOL

So, when you are in front of the three headed salamander of Zorn, and he wants to know why you didn't believe in him, what are YOU going to say?

Would you say, you were sorry, please let you in?

"Oh NOes! I hope that pit over there isn't for ME?!?!




Its a silly argument.

I'm as worried about "getting in" as you are now about the three headed salamander not letting you in.


The Jews, Christians and Muslims all worship the same god of the bible...the RELIGIONS are the ones who say that the WAY you worship MUST BE as they describe, or, "you don't get in".

The Christians for example add that god split into 3 parts, and you have to accept ONE of them as your lord and savior (Jesus) to "get in"....and then also do this and not that, etc.

The others say god didn't split into three parts, and you just have to worship god...but you have to do it by eating this not that and wearing this not that, etc.

And all are sure THEIR lists of "this and that" "get you in"....and YOUR list is rubbish, etc.


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Old 01-07-2015, 12:25 PM #4201
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

What is my list? I have no list but believe that Jesus died on the cross. As simple as that.

Obviously a salamander isn't god, your acting foolish, on the other hand, I have a chance and you have none.
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Old 01-07-2015, 12:31 PM #4202
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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What is my list? I have no list but believe that Jesus died on the cross. As simple as that.

Obviously a salamander isn't god, your acting foolish, on the other hand, I have a chance and you have none.
LOL

So, you believe that you will go to heaven, because Jesus died on the cross, even if you torture and then murder 1,000 innocent school children on their way to provide disaster relief to desperately in need tsunami victims?

Its as simple as that?

Really?

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Old 01-07-2015, 12:49 PM #4203
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

This is how it works.

We sin.
He dies to take the sin away.
He says to believe that he died to take the sin away, and surrender your life to him, otherwise, he isn't gonna vouch to God the Father for you.
So you believe. And surrender your life to him. That means trying to obey his rules. Trying.
Out of great fullness you obey his rules. He has designed you to. But since we're sinners, we will sins and break the rules.
If you break his rules because you slipped, that's fine, that's why he died.
However, if your living in a way constantly that you know is wrong to God, you must repent before you claim you believe in God, because if you don't repent, your not surrendering your life.
The Bible says, "Repent and be baptized."
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Old 01-07-2015, 01:04 PM #4204
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
This is how it works.

We sin.
He dies to take the sin away.
He says to believe that he died to take the sin away, and surrender your life to him, otherwise, he isn't gonna vouch to God the Father for you.
So you believe. And surrender your life to him. That means trying to obey his rules. Trying.
Out of great fullness you obey his rules. He has designed you to. But since we're sinners, we will sins and break the rules.
If you break his rules because you slipped, that's fine, that's why he died.
However, if your living in a way constantly that you know is wrong to God, you must repent before you claim you believe in God, because if you don't repent, your not surrendering your life.
The Bible says, "Repent and be baptized."
OK, so you DO have a list....YOUR list says that in order for him to vouch to himself? that you can "get in", you have to TRY to obey his "rules".

If you eff up, and say, accidentally slip up and kill 1,000 innocent children, that's fine, that's why he died for a few days...as long as you also say you're sorry.

So the "rules" are your "List". I read the rules, and, you can't mix meat and dairy, you can't eat certain fish, you can't wear clothes with more than one kind of fabric, you can't express your love for others of the same gender, you kill children who disrespect their parents, and those who practice witchcraft, and so forth.

So, I kill some witches and stone some disobedient children while eating hamburgers (beef not pork), but not cheeseburgers...and I get through the pearly gates.

If I forget to hold the cheese, I say I'm sorry, and I'm still good to go.

Sweet.


I'd convert, but I REALLY like cheeseburgers more than w/o the cheese, and am willing to risk hell for it.



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Old 01-07-2015, 01:09 PM #4205
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Default Re: LPF's Religion




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Old 01-07-2015, 01:23 PM #4206
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Duke Amber, your graphic is great.

@Teej. Yeah, Hitler could have gone to heaven, if he had sincerely repented of his sins, and placed his faith in Jesus. Yeah he could have. Even if people on this world don't forgive you, Jesus does. But some peoples heart grow so hard that they don't care about God so much because they're bitter, and self condemned. That's probably what happened to Hitler. Either that, or he really had a confused view of god, and sincerely thought was he was doing was right.
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:13 PM #4207
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Duke Amber, your graphic is great.

@Teej. Yeah, Hitler could have gone to heaven, if he had sincerely repented of his sins, and placed his faith in Jesus. Yeah he could have. Even if people on this world don't forgive you, Jesus does. But some peoples heart grow so hard that they don't care about God so much because they're bitter, and self condemned. That's probably what happened to Hitler. Either that, or he really had a confused view of god, and sincerely thought was he was doing was right.
OK, so your previous comments about gays was meant to say that they will go to heaven as long as they repented for being made by god to prefer the same gender...as opposed to them going to hell no matter what.

So, Hitler, who was a very religious Catholic, most certainly repented and went to Heaven, but, Mahatma Gandhi, who never accepted Jesus, went to Hell...

...sounds fair.



I mean, if you were a god, you would think that's a reasonable way to run things, right?


You'd have it so the MOST important thing about YOUR religion is that you believe in it....and EVERYTHING else is second.

Living a good life, being altruistic, doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, etc...nope, just believe and you go to heaven.

Be a good person, and go to hell UNLESS you accept Jesus. Be a bad person, and, GO to HEAVEN, as long as you accept Jesus.


Yeah, sounds like the sort of religion an all knowing all powerful, just and merciful supernatural entity would think is perfect.


So, lets see how that worked:

1) Create EVERYTHING.

2) Make ONE of the things a man. Take a part of that man and make a woman, even though it would only have male DNA.

3) DO NOT give the only two people on the planet knowledge, of mortality, of what is right or wrong, but, tell them not to do something, or they "Will Surely Die".

So, they don't know what death is, its never happened. They don't know what is right or wrong, as they were MADE w/o that knowledge.

4) Send a talking snake (Yes, a talking snake....) to convince Eve to eat the apple. Eve has no knowledge of what right and wrong is, and, the snake says to eat it, so she does.

5) Eve, who you made w/o knowledge of right and wrong, did something wrong...because you sent a talking snake to convince her to.

She also got Adam to eat it, so, now people have knowledge, and, now they realize God is T-O at them, and...

6) God punishes them by giving girls periods and painful births, and making men work for a living...

Snakes never get periods or have to sweat their brows, they get off scott free....having done god's dirty work for him.

7) As for the the "You will surely Die" part, oh, yeah, they live 900 years or so.

8) There must be Muskrat and Giraffe and Monkey (Etc) Eves too, because, apparently, God ALSO gave all the girl mammals periods and painful births TOO!

9) So, Eve ate something she was told not to, and then told to, before she knew it was wrong, and, all of humanity was punished forever because of it.

Really, that's fair too?

10) A coupla thousand years later, ~ 1,000 years after Adam/Eve FINALLY (Surely) died...

God makes part of himself his own son, and, has him run a rebellion against the Romans, but, he gets caught, and, executed by being nailed to a cross.

God then says that he died for your sin of Eve being tricked, by God, into eating the apple.

So, God was Dead (Go Team Nietzsche!), or, Jesus was not God (Go Team Everyone else on the planet!)...just a mortal who COULD be killed (Go Team God!)...

...or he DID NOT DIE, and, therefore, COULD NOT HAVE died for anyone's sin of having an ancestor who ate an apple.

11) After he died/was temporarily impaled for the sin of gaining knowledge/apple consumption, people still had knowledge, and, woman still had periods and painful labor, and, men still had to work.

So, he was at least temporarily impaled for your sins, but, his dad kept the punishment in place, even for girl Giraffes.

Snakes still don't have periods or have to get jobs.

Technically, WOMEN DON'T have to work by the sweat of their brows...so, technically, except for the monthly and prodigy related pains...they should be able to simply live w/o working. (The idea of woman working for a living was not on the radar to Bronze Age men who wrote this stuff).

12) A new religion is formed, which consists solely of believing the above, and, asking forgiveness for not following the rules....which the Church will change from time to time given the political and socioeconomic climate, etc....and the reward is to never die, to be immortal, living in heaven...instead of on earth...or to temporarily die, perhaps like Jesus, and then BE god, or, at least sort of be a god, considering that you're now immortal like a god, etc.

Or maybe you get to be a mythical creature that looks like a baby with wings even though it is not bound by gravity, and they definitely would not work so as to allow flight in of themselves?





PS - Couldn't we just throw some virgins into a Volcano? It makes more sense really. Intact hymens obviously block eruptions of molten rocks in a way that broken hymens can only dream of....and we can see volcanoes and virgins, but talking snakes are in such short supply.

Last edited by Teej; 01-07-2015 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:31 PM #4208
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ehpesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

I think this is what USAbro is getting at.
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