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Old 01-05-2015, 03:09 AM #4145
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Oh it certainly existed, I just believe there has been a rise in it.
Another reason I believe it is "chosen" is because my God says so.

Why do you think they're asking kids in school, if they want to be gay or straight from a young age?!?! They're not asking them if they are straight or gay, they're asking them what they want!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
According to the studies, it is biological, but, it is also environmental to a degree as well.
What studies?!?! Please don't use "the." Name the exact study your referring to.

Gracias.



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Old 01-05-2015, 06:17 AM #4146
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

In several books of the bible it has passages that pertains to homo***uality. the first one is Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Leviticus Chapter 18
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.

3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.

4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I [am] the LORD your God.

5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I [am] the LORD.

6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover [their] nakedness: I [am] the LORD.

7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she [is] thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it [is] thy father's nakedness.

9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, [whether she be] born at home, or born abroad, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, [even] their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs [is] thine own nakedness.

11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she [is] thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she [is] thy father's near kinswoman.

13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she [is] thy mother's near kinswoman.

14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she [is] thine aunt.

15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she [is] thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it [is] thy brother's nakedness.

17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; [for] they [are] her near kinswomen: it [is] wickedness.

18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex [her], to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life [time].

19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through [the fire] to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I [am] the LORD.

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it [is] confusion.

24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit [any] of these abominations; [neither] any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which [were] before you, and the land is defiled

28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that [were] before you.

29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit [them] shall be cut off from among their people.

30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that [ye] commit not [any one] of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I [am] the LORD your God.

The second one is 1 Corinthians Chapter 6
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


3rd one is Romans Chapter 1
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;


4th one is
Exodus 22:19 - Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.

But it also says in the bible that in.

Mark 12:33
And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

and in 1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

John 13:34 | Read whole chapter
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

You may not like what they do and that is your right as a christian. But God commandments also state that you do not have the right to judge others or ye shall be judged. God is the only one that can judge if some on is going to hell or not!

Just my two cents
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:40 AM #4147
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Oh it certainly existed, I just believe there has been a rise in it.
Another reason I believe it is "chosen" is because my God says so.

Why do you think they're asking kids in school, if they want to be gay or straight from a young age?!?! They're not asking them if they are straight or gay, they're asking them what they want!


What studies?!?! Please don't use "the." Name the exact study your referring to.

Gracias.

Sigh,


Your God doesn't say its CHOSEN...she says its a sin to do it or think about it.






You don't seem to comprehend what references you do read, and, its a lot of work to go and find the references. If I bother to go through the references, you historically read them, and if you read them, you probably won't understand them, etc.

As you do not already know that animals are gay too, etc, and me having to educate you already occurred, and, you resisted, because your world view requires certain preconceived notions....I am not optimistic about your ability to use a study.

Surprise me?





The information is out there, you just historically, chose not to look for it or at it.

If you promise to try to read and understand one, I'll look for one for you to read.

Here is a very basic guide from the American Psychological Association (APA) that includes links you could explore on your own:

http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-facts.pdf


http://www.livescience.com/3697-***-...r-animals.html


Some others I found easily:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo***...ality_Commo-26



The studies include finding on what genes can impact ***uality, what environmental influences can impact ***uality, how normal same gender child rearing and mating are in nature, etc. IE: To reproduce, obviously, mating that results in offspring is going to be the majority behavior. Homo***uality is the minority behavior, but, its a consistent minority that follows trends and patterns across nature.

Once you end up with a genetic predisposition, you are on that sliding scale somewhere between 100% straight or 100% gay...with essentially most people between those extremes, and, statistically, about no one AT the extremes. Add in your environment, from the womb through childhood for example, and you will be who you will be without needing to choose how you feel, you'll just feel it.

I'm assuming that you are hetero***ual, for the sake of the discussion at least. When did you CHOOSE to be hetero***ual? Did you? Or, is just what you discovered about yourself?

The bible never says that its a choice. People who interpret the bible said that. The REASON they say that is because the bible says, essentially, to be true to yourself...and, for it to be a sin under that restriction, the sinner has to choose rather than have it be their nature.

So, to be able to prosecute gays, they needed to call it a "choice". That's why even though there are sections that say not to do it...they STILL needed to have it be a "Choice" to say that they gays can go to heaven....and, the homophobes don't want the gays to go to heaven....

....and that's why you were lied to about choice being important/pivotal.

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Old 01-05-2015, 12:03 PM #4148
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
If I remember my research right, I don't remember there being even as much gay stuff going on in the 60's as now. It wasn't excepted so people didn't do it.

The problem people think it's biological is because some time ago, some group of people yelled real loud for the world to hear saying it was. It was then disproven (if I remember right) but because the news that is was (biological) caused everyone to still believe it.
LOL

I guess this is akin to your research that concluded that ONLY Christians are prosecuted, and that no other religions have ever been prosecuted?

How would you remember the 1960's?

Your parents probably don't even remember the '60's....especially if alive at the time




It was never "disproved" to be biological, it was ONLY proven to be biological AND environmental.

The ONLY parties who claimed it was NOT biological were the religious sects, who needed it to be a choice so that they could continue their prejudiced persecution.

I was around in the 1960's...and, homo***uality was just as prevalent as ever.

The scenario was like *** in Victorian times, everyone was doing it, and everyone pretended no one was doing it...because you were not allowed to.

IE: If you are afraid of persecution for something about you...you don't let others know that about you.

Blacks tried to pass as whites if they could for example...as being black was dangerous.

Gays pretended to be straight, married and had kids, etc. But they were still gay, but had to pretend to be something they were not.




Look at it this way...lets say things were reversed, and homo***uality was what most people practiced, and hetero***uality was considered a sin....

...and you were raised to believe that marriage was between two men or two woman, and that two people of opposite gender having relations was a sin, and you'd go to hell for it. (Lets say that its all test tube babies now, as in Brave New World, etc...)

All of your friends were homo***ual, and always made comments about heteros, bullying them, putting them down, or even wanting to kill them...

...Would YOU "Come Out" and say you wanted to sleep with girls?

Or, would you pretend to like guys so that you would not be ostracized and/or brutalized?

Would you even try to convince your self that guys were ok too, just to TRY to make it work?


Could you CHOOSE to want to sleep with guys? WOULD you go your entire life pretending to want to sleep with guys?

If you met your soul mate, a beautiful girl who you fell madly in love with and wanted to spend your life with...would you CHOOSE not to?


Would that be YOUR CHOICE?

Think about what that would be like.


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Old 01-05-2015, 01:58 PM #4149
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Why do you think they're asking kids in school, if they want to be gay or straight from a young age?!?! They're not asking them if they are straight or gay, they're asking them what they want!
I don't know what kind of school you're going to, but I've never heard anyone ask someone if they want to be gay of straight.
Let's pretend you're right, who would want to be gay anyway? Gays are persecuted for their ***uality because people can't keep their religious beliefs to themselves. If being gay was a choice people wouldn't be choosing it. What kind of a person would willingly subject themselves to this persecution if it was a simple choice?

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Another reason I believe it is "chosen" is because my God says so.
If your god told you to jump off a cliff, would you?
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:02 PM #4150
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by vortish View Post
You may not like what they do and that is your right as a christian. But God commandments also state that you do not have the right to judge others or ye shall be judged. God is the only one that can judge if some on is going to hell or not!

Just my two cents
Problem is that I'm not judging. I'm graciously informing people of what Gods says he will do to those who don't accept Jesus as their savior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARG View Post
I don't know what kind of school you're going to, but I've never heard anyone ask someone if they want to be gay of straight.
Let's pretend you're right, who would want to be gay anyway? Gays are persecuted for their ***uality because people can't keep their religious beliefs to themselves. If being gay was a choice people wouldn't be choosing it. What kind of a person would willingly subject themselves to this persecution if it was a simple choice?



If your god told you to jump off a cliff, would you?
There not being persecuted because of our religious beliefs. No, they are being persecuted by non-Christians and people who just think they're plain weird. Yes it is a choice. People are choosing it because they find it more preferable to hetero$exuality. Explain bi$exuals then.

And yes, if my God told me to jump off a cliff, I would, because he would have a very good reason for me to do it, above my knowledge.

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Old 01-05-2015, 03:06 PM #4151
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teej View Post
According to the studies, it is biological, but, it is also environmental to a degree as well.

Everyone is somewhere on a sliding scale relative to who they are attracted to: we are essentially hard wired to have certain preferences.

So, it is not a "choice" in of itself.
Sounds about right, it's more complicated that simplifying to "it's a choice". Can't really say it's a choice, but we do have a choice.

There is nothing wrong with two of the same gender cohabitating and loving each other. It's the choosing to engage in a ***ual relationship that's choosing to live in sin. Current culture wants me to believe I'm an immoral person for believing this but I've never viewed this as such. It's not a stretch to say "Hey don't cheat on your wife" and go to "Hey also don't have *** with a man".

I don't like cherry picking bible verses because you lose the context but here -

For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. - Galations 5:17

I don't understand the temptation of homo***uality, but I do understand temptation, we all have our spiritual battles we need to fight.
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:16 PM #4152
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

The thing is that men and women are obviously made for each other.

Kinda like a puzzle isn't it?

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Old 01-05-2015, 06:47 PM #4153
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

[QUOTE=USAbro;1341706]Problem is that I'm not judging. I'm graciously informing people of what Gods says he will do to those who don't accept Jesus as their savior.


Actually you are judging some one for being gay. I am a christian USAbro and you may not think your judging some for being gay, but you are. In several of your comments you lashing out to defend your opinion. That is a form of judging some one because of their beliefs! You are pushing your belief on the rest of the forum who may or may not follow god! You are doing what the bible tells us not to do. You may spread his word to others but ye shall not force his will upon others!

In this your really making Christians look bad!
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:01 PM #4154
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Problem is that I'm not judging. I'm graciously informing people of what Gods says he will do to those who don't accept Jesus as their savior.
Have you ever wondered why people don't like Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons that go door to door? It's because they're peddling their religion.

People don't want to be informed of what others believe, because they have their own set of beliefs which usually don't align.
Peddling your beliefs is how you end up with people like Westboro who picket at funerals of soldiers. Those people are hated by most christians and non-christians alike.

When you force your beliefs (or just "inform" them as you do) on others you give your religion a bad name.

Read vortish's post above. Also relevent.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:09 PM #4155
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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People like Westboro who picket at funerals of soldiers. Those people are hated by most christians and non-christians alike.
As a former military member Westboro Baptist Church really gets under my skin. I have had brothers I spent years by that are buried and those Hellenistic people boycotted their funerals. That is not a church in any shape of the imagination. I am a baptist christian and even them claiming baptist makes me sick. That group is a cult. It made up 99% of family members! The protest cops funerals or any other just to get media coverage! Its really disgraceful
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:18 PM #4156
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well then let me state that everything I say in this thread, is my opinion unless stated as fact. When I say something that may come across as judging, I apologize. I am just conveying what Jesus says, and personally, I don't care if someone is gay or straight, as long as it doesn't interfere with my life. I just want them to know, in case they are uniformed, but as much as I know, most gay people are quite informed that a lot of people think there $exual orientation is weird, so I guess they don't need me to tell them.
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:32 PM #4157
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Well then let me state that everything I say in this thread, is my opinion unless stated as fact. When I say something that may come across as judging, I apologize. I am just conveying what Jesus says, and personally, I don't care if someone is gay or straight, as long as it doesn't interfere with my life. I just want them to know, in case they are uniformed, but as much as I know, most gay people are quite informed that a lot of people think there $exual orientation is weird, so I guess they don't need me to tell them.
No were in the bible is Jesus telling us what to do. The bible as it pertains to Christians, Jewish, and Catholics are the word of god spoken to the disciples of Jesus in the New Testament. And to Key people in the old testament such as Moses, King David, Jona from Jona and the wale. You keep spouting scripture with out really knowing what the scriptures say. Please stop! Unless you can use scripture that is in the bible correctly STOP. Your opinions are yours but your not making any sense! Your using the bible in ways that it was never intended for. I am really upset in the way that your using the Holy Bible. your using it in a very offensive manor! I understand why some members are having a big issue with what you a writing!
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Old 01-05-2015, 11:43 PM #4158
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination [towebah].” Leviticus 18:22

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination [towebah]: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” Leviticus 20:13
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Old 01-06-2015, 12:39 AM #4159
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination [towebah].” Leviticus 18:22

“If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination [towebah]: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” Leviticus 20:13
Wait a second... We had this discussion some pages ago (see below), when I posed a question about Leviticus before you said the ceremonial laws ended when Jesus died on the cross.
Following that logic being gay would not be a sin. Or is wearing shirts made out of more than one kind of cloth a sin? It can't be both ways.

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IMO, not believing in God gets a lot of people out of following his rules.
That's the point. The bible doesn't get revised, some "rules" that were made thousands of years ago are no longer relevant.

According to Leviticus I'm not allowed to wear shirts made out of more than one kind of cloth. I bet you've broken that one.
The reason that's okay, is because these were types and shadows of Christ to come. When he died on the cross, all the ceremonial laws ended.
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Old 01-06-2015, 01:00 AM #4160
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Not to mention that when Leviticus was brought up before, USAbro was quick to point out that the old testament was "overridden" by the new testament. At least that was gist I got whenever an example was used from the old testament.
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