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Old 01-02-2015, 08:59 PM #4129
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

if the adam and eve story is metaphor, then do, or do we not carry original sin? can we inherit original sin from a metaphor? why would christ need to be sacrificed to save the world from a metaphor?


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Old 01-02-2015, 11:49 PM #4130
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
if the adam and eve story is metaphor, then do, or do we not carry original sin? can we inherit original sin from a metaphor? why would christ need to be sacrificed to save the world from a metaphor?
Hmm, well, I have absolutely no idea how to answer this validly. I did not think much about that, but maybe whoever it was who first had a soul one day committed some other sin. I should probably stop posting in this thread, because I don't think I'm too well educated on this subject.
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:55 AM #4131
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I simply think it's mostly useless to speculate about that which can not be demonstrated, unless it's in pursuit of a way to make it demonstrable, then I'm game

Alaskan, I've read your posts and can kind of sympathize. I just dont think a lot of the new age(ish) types of beliefs can be substantiated. I've watched some videos on the subject lately. sacred geometry, chakras, universal conscious, crazier ones about atlantis and this thoth guy, etc. sometimes I think they're on to something golden, but often I cant be sure it's not just wishful thinking or mere coincidence. sometimes I think it's complete fantasy. a lot of the conclusions i think are non sequitars or conjecture.

still all that said, at least if everyone believed we were all one, there might be less tendancy towards greed and more towards sympathy and empathy. there would be less motivation for individual gain and more focus on our collective future, a perspective I believe our culture and the environment could benefit from. so I say, go ahead, believe it if it makes you a better person. I personally just kind of cherry pick what I feel is valid from all that stuff and try to embody it. you will not however, catch me wearing an indigo shirt to try to charge my related chakra
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Old 01-03-2015, 03:16 PM #4132
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Oh, I was not claiming for any of the bible to be true. I do believe some parts of it are, but that's only because they seem realistic and like they could actually happen very easily. I mean, take the birth of Jesus for instance. No room for him to be born, he's born in a barn. The story of his death, okay. The story of his resurrection, well, I believe in that one because it's the church's teaching that it was literal.

But it is made very clear that most of the bible is probably just stories. For instance, read this passage from the book of Revelations:

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child."

What I'm really saying is yes, I believe in Jesus, but most of the bible is not meant to be taken literally.
I think you're starting to get it.



Its ALL meant to be taken literally, by Bronze Age/primitive people...as ALL of the stories are based upon OLDER stories that predate them. When they are the story of who we see as a primitive culture, we chuckle at the simple minded ridiculousness of the myth. THEY didn't see their OWN myths that way of course...and viewed the new stories as absurd.

EVERY group at least initially sees THEIR myths as truth (They are raised to believe what they believe)....until knowledge of the world shines light upon the darkness of ignorance...and they slowly but surely start to view THEIR myths as stories, and less as truth.

If you know what a volcano is, you will eventually find it harder and harder to throw virgins into it to improve crop yields.

If you know the stars are too far away for a dragon's tail to sweep them from the sky....its hard to think of it as a true story.

If you know that the earth is round, and the earth revolves around the sun, its hard to act as though it doesn't.

If you are taught that there is a supreme being who cannot be wrong/make a mistake, AND is all powerful, AND that all kings rule by divine right, but, they war against each other...and win some/lose some...its hard to maintain the belief in either the god or the method a king used to be ABLE to claim divine right.

The Jesus story is an old story...and, while SURE, being born in a barn is not a miracle.....its certainly possible, the part about 3 wisemen seeing the north star, which, well, was there a long time before, and after that too, to bring gifts to a "KING", who was the baby in the barn...and then disappearing never to be seen again. Nothing for the kid's circumcision, 1st b-day party, 2nd, Bar Mitzvah, etc.

Why travel such a long way to give expensive spices to babies in barns? Well, in the older stories, having wise men, etc, show up at a birth with rare and expensive gifts, was considered auspicious...a sign of the importance of the event.

We never hear in the bible about what Mary or Joseph or Jesus did with the precious gifts either...I mean, ALL they did was travel a long way to give these gifts...and then, poof, nothing about the deliverers, gifts, etc, is ever heard again.

Adam is made from dirt...but his RIB is used to make Eve. Why god would need "something" to make Adam, or Eve, FROM, seems odd considering what transpired immediately before...IE: Everything from nothing. Why a RIB? Why not a pinky? A hair? A zit?

Welll...its because they knew way back then that women tended to have one more rib...and, a common myth building aspect was to weave a known fact into the myth...so people would then say, HEY, wait, woman have an extra rib, that EXPLAINS IT, Adam is missing one, and, she got it!

So ribs are in the mythology...as of course, if someone took YOUR rib, your CHILDREN would of course not have a rib there either , and so forth....but that part was over the head of the original primitives to realize.


And so on and so forth. Its ALL myth. And, sure, there WILL BE true events and/or facts woven into it...as that's how good myths/effective lies WORK.


And so on...when read in context to the myths and stories of the time...its simply a plagiarization of existing stories, attributing them to the NEW MYTH.


Just the way Kids eventually figure out Santa Claus doesn't work for them...societies slowly realize that their myths don't work.




It might take longer if raised to believe that Knowledge is bad, and if everyone around you still seems to believe, and, if society makes it evil to even CONSIDER that there might not be a Santa, etc.


How old you are when you realize that its NOT Santa delivering those presents under the tree?


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Old 01-03-2015, 09:21 PM #4133
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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I do agree with the beliefs of the Catholic church
That means no premarital ѕex, no contraception, and NO touching yourself at night young man
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Old 01-04-2015, 12:02 AM #4134
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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That means no premarital ѕex, no contraception, and NO touching yourself at night young man
LOL

It also means that even THINKING about these things is a sin.

If you'd want to do it, everything is a sin, so says the people in the sin business. IE: THEY INVENTED SIN.

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Old 01-04-2015, 04:52 PM #4135
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Its ALL meant to be taken literally, by Bronze Age/primitive people...as ALL of the stories are based upon OLDER stories that predate them. When they are the story of who we see as a primitive culture, we chuckle at the simple minded ridiculousness of the myth. THEY didn't see their OWN myths that way of course...and viewed the new stories as absurd.
I'm glad that you realize that as well. I knew they were meant to be taken literally, but now, they're more just stories. So, for being like-minded to me!
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Old 01-04-2015, 05:28 PM #4136
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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I'm glad that you realize that as well. I knew they were meant to be taken literally, but now, they're more just stories. So, for being like-minded to me!
You're welcome!

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Old 01-04-2015, 11:20 PM #4137
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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LOL

It also means that even THINKING about these things is a sin.

If you'd want to do it, everything is a sin, so says the people in the sin business. IE: THEY INVENTED SIN.

Just because you do these things, that doesn't send you to hell if your a Christian. As a Christian, and going off what the Bible says, your saved by Jesus dying on the cross, and doing these things is not what saves you.

Just my opinion.
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Old 01-04-2015, 11:55 PM #4138
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Just because you do these things, that doesn't send you to hell if your a Christian. As a Christian, and going off what the Bible says, your saved by Jesus dying on the cross, and doing these things is not what saves you.

Just my opinion.
OK, fair enough, you have your own religion, with your own beliefs, and its not the same as the formal, organized religion.

You believe that once Jesus was crucified, no one sinned afterwards, or, at least, it at least doesn't count against you, and you can get into heaven anyway.

I understand your religion now.


It means that in your religion, a gay person can still go to heaven, even though he is violating the same rules that the church decreed do keep you out of heaven (Such as thinking about a sin, committing a sin, etc). They do require confessions of the sins to be absolved of them, but, hey, that's a small price to pay for eternal salvation. Sin, get absolved, sin, get absolved, rinse in holy water/repeat, and so forth).


I read today that the Church is formally declaring that global climate change is occurring, and, that it's a man-made issue, and, that we all have to pitch in to help solve it.

Ever since they formed a science department, the Church has really been correcting a lot of old dogma. I give them a big thumbs up for their progress thus far.


I wonder if the Church will catch up to you, as far as your view on sin, etc, one day as well?

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Old 01-05-2015, 12:55 AM #4139
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

No, no, no. It is still sin. But it doesn't send you to hell, because perfect Jesus came along, and sacrificed himself for the world. No you don't understand yet.

A gay person can become a Christian if they stop that way of living. I'm not saying that sinning isn't wrong, I'm just saying that yelling at someone, or being bitter, lying etc, don't send you to hell. However if that is the way you live on going, and you know your disobeying what Jesus has said, then your pretty much not a Christian.

About the gay person, our views differ, because you believe that scientifically the person is homo$exual and cannot change, and I believe it is a choice.

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Old 01-05-2015, 01:55 AM #4140
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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About the gay person, our views differ, because you believe that scientifically the person is homo$exual and cannot change, and I believe it is a choice.
It's scientific FACT that homo***uality is not a choice. You are born either hetero***ual or homo***ual. It's potentially genetic, definitely biological.

I assume if blond hair was a sin, that would be a choice as well....
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:02 AM #4141
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ChaosLord View Post
It's scientific FACT
Do share.
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:43 AM #4142
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by ChaosLord View Post
It's scientific FACT that homo***uality is not a choice. You are born either hetero***ual or homo***ual. It's potentially genetic, definitely biological.

I assume if blond hair was a sin, that would be a choice as well....
If I remember my research right, I don't remember there being even as much gay stuff going on in the 60's as now. It wasn't excepted so people didn't do it.

The problem people think it's biological is because some time ago, some group of people yelled real loud for the world to hear saying it was. It was then disproven (if I remember right) but because the news that is was (biological) caused everyone to still believe it.
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:51 AM #4143
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ok, I'll admit I was carried away with declaring it fact. I do believe it will be definitively be found to be caused, and not chosen. I personally don't need science to see it's much more complicated than choosing one way or the other...or both.

I am hetero***ual, and I could not choose to be attracted to men. I'm not "wired" that way. Everyone I've discussed this with, of both orientations, feel the same way. It's not a choice if you don't have any attraction for the other option.

I haven't kept up with the science behind ones orientation, but a quick googling popped these up.

new-insight-into-the-epigenetic-roots-of-homo***uality

Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homo***uality

scientists-confirm-that-homo***uality-is-not-genetic--but-it-arises-in-the-womb

It may not be proof, but it's more than saying something is a choice when there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. I've seen zero evidence that one can choose their orientation. I personally believe that saying a person can choose their orientation is justification of bigotry.

@USAbro if homo***uality wasn't around in the past, why is it in the bible? It has existed in humans at least since recorded history, and has been found throughout the animal kingdom. What about sodom in the bible? I'm not sure where you got that homo***uality wasn't as prevalent in the 1960s, but if so it is likely due to being scared to be open about it. It's not that theres more homo***uality, people are more inclined to come out about it now.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:06 AM #4144
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Do share.
According to the studies, it is biological, but, it is also environmental to a degree as well.

Everyone is somewhere on a sliding scale relative to who they are attracted to: we are essentially hard wired to have certain preferences.

So, it is not a "choice" in of itself.

Some people are born closer to the middle of that sliding scale, and some are born closer to the ends...the ones in the middle are more vulnerable to environmental impacts.

There is a principle that essentially helps people cope with trauma. It can manifest in the form of post traumatic stress symptoms, and/or behaviors that rationalize the trauma and claim control over it.

Example:

A young child savagely attacked by a dog and traumatized will occasionally continue to bite THEMSELVES where the dog had bitten them when the dog is pulled off.

A young girl who is raped will occasionally become promiscuous.

And so forth....they tend to essentially act in a way that demonstrates that whatever happened was OK, they wanted it...so, they did not lose control, etc.

Obviously, not all people have this reaction, but, many do.

For example, when priests rape young choirboys, some of the choirboys become ***ually confused, and engage in independent homo***ual activities....sometimes with older men, etc.

These people also sometimes recover, and end up bi***ual or hetero***ual, despite the priest's raping, etc.

When a woman is pregnant, her hormone levels also seem to have an effect upon the developing fetus. If stress levels are higher, there is a tendency for more same gender preferences.

So, a chemical change occurs in a person's brain when exposed to trauma. These changes are not a choice, any more than its a choice to be drunk after drinking alcohol.

As for the majority of people, and animals, some are hard wired to be somewhere at the ends, and middle, of the gender preference scale, and its pot luck as to where you end up.

Animals exhibit the same patterns, in that same gender preferences are a percentage of most vertebrates populations.

Studies that exposed assorted lab animals to stress found the same correlation in the offspring and same gender attractions. The data indicates that the presence of stress, historically, would potentially mean a shortage of resources.

Population control in this manner would help limit the later number of young mouths to feed, but not the number of adults that could bring in resources.

This has been observed in mammals, fish, birds, and the statistics are consistent with human data.

We are all, for the most part, a product of nature and nurture. I don't think anyone decides that they will prefer blondes, or redheads or brunettes, I think they simply find a "type" hot, and, might not be attracted to someone fat, or, skinny, or red haired, or tall, or short, fair skinned, dark skinned, etc....

They are attracted to who they are attracted to, and, probably haven't a clue why. If you tell them to prefer short fat girls with zits, it probably won't work if their real preference was for tall blonds with freckles.

You can't "choose" who you are attracted to. Nature/Nurture already did it for you.

So, no, its not a "choice". The choice, if any, is to be yourself, or, to pretend to be someone else.


Many studies of why priests rape so many more children than all other job classifications combined found that this denial of their real desires, and their ATTEMPT to "choose" not to be a pedophile, and going into the clergy to avoid it....lead to their repressed desires finally exploding, and being exacerbated by their position of authority and respect in the community.

Pedophilia has victims who are traumatized, and it causes great harm.

The clergy prey upon vulnerable sheep in their flock.

If the priest was homo***ual, they don't rape young children, they drive to far away gay bars, turnpike rest stops, meet like-minded members of the congregation, etc...and try to satisfy their needs that way.

There's no victim, no trauma...just an attempt to avoid the stigma that has collateral damages. Damages due SOLELY to their ***uality being artificially classified as morally wrong.

So, homo***ual priests/hetero***ual priests who find that they have needs that are quite normal, but, are not allowed to fulfill, suffer for no reason whatsoever.

Pedophile priests are the real villains - and while they too are a product of nature/nurture...there ARE victims, and, the priests are criminals. The church, when the pedophiles are caught, just moves them to new parishes, etc, where they find new victims, instead of turning them in to the police though, so, its a lot harder to stop.

So, choice is the wrong term, and doesn't really apply in the true sense of the word...it would be the same as you telling me to not be attracted to woman, and to find a nice man and settle down, or, to be celibate.

I don't want a guy, and I don't want to be celibate...so, what's my "choice"?

According to the bible, homo***uality is a sin, and, its listed as about the same as talking back to your parents....

Why is talking back to your parents not acted on the same way?

Why is wearing clothing with more than two fabrics not acted on in this way?

And so forth. Its a bigoted primitive prejudice that exists partly because many people are aware of their own ***ual "scale" they are on, and fear that they might be gay, and "doth protest too much".

Its why Republicans who campaign against homo***uals are the ones who get caught engaging in homo***ual activities. And so forth.


Last edited by Teej; 01-05-2015 at 11:34 AM.
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