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Old 12-19-2014, 02:35 PM #4001
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
This is an appalling thing to say, you are literally embarrassing me.

Step back and examine yourself Usabro. Don't come back to this thread unless it's with a good heart.
Your pretty good at forging messages, just like me.


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Old 12-19-2014, 02:36 PM #4002
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Refer to above
Originally Posted by Teej View Post


I missed the part where you showed how what you said was independently verifiable...?

If you seek god, then experience the existence of god, you've just independently verified god.

Um, that's not true. If I seek the blue rabbit, and experience the blue rabbit, I personally have verified that there's a blue rabbit, but, that's not independently verified in the context intended. IE: How do you define "Experienced the existence of a Blue Rabbit"?

Did I SEE it? In what way did I have this experience?

Is it just along the lines of " I just have this strong feeling that there's a Blue Rabbit, because Blue Rabbits are supposed to make me feel a certain way, and, I feel that way?







My impression was that you were essentially saying that your faith was more valid than other people's faith...

I never meant to directly of indirectly say this.

But, its what you did say, essentially that your experiences lead to your faith, and that others experiences that lead to their faith don't count (Or else you'd be agreeing that their religions are as valid (correct) as yours. IE: Your faith is more valid than their faith.



...and, the counter was then made that didn't prove that your faith, or their faith, was more valid, except in your opinion, and, theirs.

The proof I have is either not considered proof by you, or it's non-transferrable individual experiences.



Which means YOUR argument went in a circle, as it was self validating.
refer to above

I don't believe you CAN provide independent validation of your OWN faith, which is sort of what it seems you are asking how to do, rightly questioning how that would be possible?
refer to above



The "refer to above" means more circles, because the references are to the very (self validated) points that were objected to.



So, I have no doubt that you believe what you believe....that's a reasonable conclusion.

I also feel its reasonable to agree that others who base THEIR beliefs on THEIR faith, believe what THEY believe.


What has NOT been established is why YOUR beliefs are more valid...other than your statements indicating that your beliefs are more valid.


It doesn't mean you are wrong per se, or right, just that you have not actually made your point in a way that has diagnostic power relative to the topic.

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Old 12-19-2014, 02:39 PM #4003
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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......
Well now it's a circular argument.
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Old 12-19-2014, 02:40 PM #4004
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Maybe someone can rename the thread, "Circular Talk Religious Flamewar-ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!"
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Old 12-19-2014, 02:56 PM #4005
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Then how come the God of the Muslims doesn't claim to have died on the cross, and how come he has come up with works for you to do to be saved? Obviously these are two different Gods with different requirements.
I'll give it to you that Allah (not my god) is a spirit, most certainly a fallen angel (demon).
Sigh.

You are confusing these issues. One is who GOD IS, the other is what RELIGION.

All three worship the same GOD.

They just have different VERSIONS of him.

Jews don't believe Jesus was the son of god. That doesn't mean that they believe in a different GOD.

Muslims don't believe Jesus was the son of God either, and that doesn't mean that they believe in a different God either.


So, like it or not, despite your objections....Allah = God = Yahweh.


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Old 12-19-2014, 02:58 PM #4006
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Well now it's a circular argument.
LOL


Those dots were a place holder so I could stick in something later.


BTW - Showing how an argument is circular is not - in of itself, a circular argument.




Its circular when the LOGIC requires the argument (Argument in the case of logic is not between two people, its the logic itself applied to prove a case, etc) to have a given that is used to prove itself.

Faith based arguments are circular by their nature, as no facts are available when its a belief-based argument.


It doesn't prove that the argument's CONCLUSION is wrong, it just proves its an invalid argument to reach that conclusion.



IE:

Me: I have experienced a blue rabbit.

You: Prove it.

Me: My proof would not be accepted by you.

You: Has this been independently verified?

Me: Yes, by me.


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Old 12-19-2014, 03:01 PM #4007
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

No. Then I guess in your mind I'm neither of all three. However I am a Christian and Allah is not the same as my God, but Yaweh is. Jews have a contorted view of what really happened and Muslims with their Allah, they may think/say he is the same, but he certainly is not. In fact, I just had a debate at the grocery store when I got into a conversation with a guy there. He thought they were the same until I told him they weren't.
If they were, then explain why they have different rules, books, laws, what your saying is made up, and you cannot even speak because your not a Christian.

No hard feelings outside of this thread!
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:14 PM #4008
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
No. Then I guess in your mind I'm neither of all three.

However I am a Christian and Allah is not the same as my God, but Yaweh is.

Jews have a contorted view of what really happened and Muslims with their Allah, they may think/say he is the same, but he certainly is not.

In fact, I just had a debate at the grocery store when I got into a conversation with a guy there. He thought they were the same until I told him they weren't.
If they were, then explain why they have different rules, books, laws, what your saying is made up, and you cannot even speak because your not a Christian.

No hard feelings outside of this thread!
You are STILL confusing who god is, with the religions of those who worship her.


I was a Christian. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

It made my family very happy.


I am not a dog. I do understand what dogs are though, and, I feel I can speak about dogs with some degree of knowledge, having had pets and read alot about them.

If you feel that only dogs should be allowed to discuss dogs, that's going to severely limit some forum discussions about dogs though.

The example of some guy who doesn't believe in gravity convincing a guy at a grocery store that 3 religions don't know who their own god is...doesn't actually change who their god is btw.

You worship Allah, even if you can't comprehend the difference between religion and god.


Protestants and Catholics also differ on beliefs, but, its the same god.

The Jews and Catholics also differ on beliefs, but, its the same god.

The Muslims and Catholics also differ on beliefs, but, its the same god.


They are all different RELIGIONS, with the SAME GOD.

YOUR misinterpretations don't change anything - THEY believe they are worshiping the same god, from the same bibles.

They just all worship the same god DIFFERENTLY.



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Old 12-19-2014, 03:18 PM #4009
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Teej View Post
You are STILL confusing who god is, with the religions of those who worship her.


I was a Christian. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

It made my family very happy.


I am not a dog. I do understand what dogs are though, and, I feel I can speak about dogs with some degree of knowledge, having had pets and read alot about them.

If you feel that only dogs should be allowed to discuss dogs, that's going to severely limit some forum discussions about dogs though.

The example of some guy who doesn't believe in gravity convincing a store clerk that 3 religions don't know who their own god is...doesn't actually change who their god is btw.

You worship Allah, even if you can't comprehend the difference between religion and god.


Protestants and Catholics also differ on beliefs, but, its the same god.

The Jews and Catholics also differ on beliefs, but, its the same god.

The Muslims and Catholics also differ on beliefs,, but, its the same god.


They are all different RELIGIONS, with the SAME GOD.


You are being so flat out dumb. If I tell you it's not true, then it's not true. No debate.
And now your calling God "her" OMG.

This shows how uneducated you are. It says in the Bible God is a "he."
Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:22 PM #4010
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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I hope you think for yourself once.
@teej-you do a good job being a dingus. If you don't know what it means look it up.
Thanks for channeling Pee Wee Herman, again.

I meant it...try to think instead of parroting stuff w/o evaluating it.

ALL of your info has been incorrect, and shown why. There is a reason for that.

I'm trying to get you to explore that reason.

So far, you reply as a child. Perhaps, being one, that's the best you can do...but, I have high hopes for you one day.

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Old 12-19-2014, 03:24 PM #4011
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Thanks for channeling Pee Wee Herman, again.

I meant it...try to think instead of parroting stuff w/o evaluating it.

ALL of your info has been incorrect, and shown why. There is a reason for that.

I'm trying to get you to explore that reason.

So far, you reply as a child. Perhaps, being one, that's the best you can do...but, I have high hopes for you one day.

I'd personally like to know how old you are, so I know who I am dealing with.
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Old 12-19-2014, 03:31 PM #4012
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
You are being so flat out dumb. If I tell you it's not true, then it's not true. No debate.
And now your calling God "her" OMG.

This shows how uneducated you are. It says in the Bible God is a "he."
Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.
LOL

One day, when you're older and wiser, it would be nice to have you re-read this thread.

So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.[/QUOTE]


Ok, so if you imagine you are translating Aramaic to Greek or Latin and back a few times... and there's no pronoun for both ***es at the same time, how else could they HAVE phrased this?

So, god created mankind (This includes woman in case you didn't know?) in his own image.

That either means god is a hermaphrodite (Both ***es), or, that god has no *** at all (Neither male or female), or, that the language's available did not contain a word that was both singular and gender neutral. (Or that the men who wrote it never considered that god was not a man, etc...)

YOU:
You are being so flat out dumb. If I tell you it's not true, then it's not true. No debate.

Me: So, you are the one person in the universe who knows all, and, if you say it, its true....and if you says something is not true, its simply not true.

"No Debate"


Hmmm, I can't seem to fathom why that would be the case, especially when you are wrong ALL the time.

Is it like opposite day, where we just take the opposite of what you say to be what you meant?





And as for your age or my age...You have peers who post more articulate arguments...so, age is not why you can't post intelligently all by itself. If you made any sense, or, posted things that were not wrong, I would respect that even if you said you were 3 years old...as the content is more important than your age.

My age is greater than your age, and I know that because the PATTERNS of your posts indicate a young person, a teenager perhaps. As for my age, well, my kids are old enough to be your parents...if that helps.

If I am wrong about you being a teenager....correct me...and I'll adjust the descriptions of my middle aged kids to be your grandparents, or, your age, or, whatever makes sense.

I will NOT tell you that I said you were a teenager, and you are because I said so, as I DO adjust my beliefs if evidence warrants it.


In the meantime, you being under 20 is quite believable based upon your evidence. If you are older than that, well, I'll rethink my assessment, and, frankly, will have expected more if you were older yet not proportionally wiser.

I think you are older than 12 though....lets go with ~ 16?


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Old 12-19-2014, 03:59 PM #4013
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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You brought it back into a circle after I explained how it is independently verifiable.
No, you used the same argument for your divine experience as you did for your holy book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
What kind of validation are you looking for?
explain to me how your religious experience is more valid than any other. Understand that "[deity] showed himself to me" is claimed by members of every other religion. Understand that "Lots of people agree with me" is claimed by members of every other religion.

If "[deity] showed himself to me, and other people have seen him" is evidence I should accept from you, then I have to accept it from everyone that makes that claim, and the whole thing falls apart.

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I'd personally like to know how old you are, so I know who I am dealing with.
You need to value an argument based on its merit, NOT on who made it or how old he is.

If a 9-year-old told you the factorial of 6 is 720, would tell him he is wrong?
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Old 12-19-2014, 05:03 PM #4014
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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...If they were, then explain why they have different rules, books, laws, what your saying is made up, and you cannot even speak because your not a Christian.
I'll gladly explain. you see, all these religious texts were written by people, at different times, so the stories will have some properties of emergence, much like slight language changes that accumulate over time to make totally new languages. spanish and french are both derived from the same original language, but are now so distant they can not understand eachother, much like christians and muslims.

BTW USAbro, there are Christians who deny that jesus was also god, (I used to be one) and believe that Christ and God are completely seperate entities. a proper reading of the bible with a concordance will show that they were seperate, and the few verses that seem to indicate they are the same (I and my father are one) can actually be explained to understand that he meant he was equal to god, or shared gods purpose. he also says anyone can become one with god, does that mean anyone can be god? apart for these supposedly explainable few verses, the rest of the story only remains internally consistent if you believe they are different entities. for example, if they were the same being, why would christ go away to pray to god, or draw in the sand waiting for god to tell him how to handle the stoning of the audultress. or why would a dove alight on Christ's shoulder, and a vioce for heaven, that is not coming from jesus proclaims, "this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased" (matthew 3:17)

the voice didnt say, "this is me, I sure do love myself, it pleases me" though that ego display would be fitting for the megalomaniac



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Old 12-19-2014, 05:38 PM #4015
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
I'll gladly explain. you see, all these religious texts were written by people, at different times, so the stories will have some properties of emergence, much like slight language changes that accumulate over time to make totally new languages. spanish and french are both derived from the same original language, but are now so distant they can not understand eachother, much like christians and muslims.

BTW USAbro, there are Christians who deny that jesus was also god, (I used to be one) and believe that Christ and God are completely seperate entities. a proper reading of the bible with a concordance will show that they were seperate, and the few verses that seem to indicate they are the same (I and my father are one) can actually be explained to understand that he meant he was equal to god. apart for these supposedly explainable few verses, the rest of the story only remains internally consistent if you believe they are seperate entities. for example, if they were the same being, why would christ go away to pray to god, or draw in the sand waiting for god to tell him how to handle the stoning of the audultress. or why would a dove alight on Christ's shoulder, and a vioce for heaven, that is not coming from jesus proclaims, "this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased" (matthew 3:17)

the voice didnt say, "this is me, I sure do love myself, it pleases me" though that ego display would be fitting for the megalomaniac


I prophesy the picking and choosing of what to take as true, and what to discard, from the word of god, so as to preserve whatever world view must be preserved.

IE: Do not count anything that contradicts the world view as valid, all items in this category are invalid, as a given.

ANY thing that confirms the world view is to be assumed as valid. Anything that doesn't conflict with the world view is to be assumed as valid.

Any claim that was supposed to confirm the world view, and later found not to, is not to be considered a counter argument, it is to be ignored as salient, and not valid.

This is to be followed by warnings of what will happen to those in conflict with said world view.


I have spoken, and, it is true.


Sincerely,

Most Humans




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Old 12-19-2014, 08:26 PM #4016
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

The more I argue the more everyone here including but not limited to, Cypargon, Shakenawake, teej, etc, keep saying stupid things that don't make sense.

@teej. Change your signature in your last post to, Sincerely, most idiots of the human race. When you don't even consider the possibility of God then how can you make wise decisions. What would you say when you die, if you stood in front of God? What then? Maybe I'm wrong but what if I'm right, then you'ed be screwed for eternity.

Last edited by USAbro; 12-19-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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