Old 06-23-2009, 12:03 PM #385
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by jander6442 View Post



fun stuff. Religion get you some
bahahahahahahahaaaa


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Old 06-23-2009, 03:44 PM #386
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I just got trolled.






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Old 06-23-2009, 06:10 PM #387
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by icecruncher View Post
Ya know, that is the best analogy of religion EVER lol but we and they know that lasers in fact exist so it's not the same thing at all.


A ton of analogies in this, but one of my favorite is from Arthur C Clark who said that "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Lasers are a cool example - They don't exist naturally. They are totally man-made. Einstien postulated the existence and possibility of a laser way before they were created. "The power of the sun in your hand."

Just because you don't understand it or can't touch it or prove it's existence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Lots of astronomical objects things fall in this category and a lot of math is based on imaginary numbers (sq rt -1).

;D ;D ;D
You mentioned Einstien...

Just an interesting side note, Einstien believed that there must have been intelligence behind 'creation'.

He saw the incredible design in everything. Design always reflects intelligence.

Even something as simple as a swinging door with a handle and a key lock is a design that had to be designed by someone.

Now if we choose to misuse the design, that dose not make it a bad design. For instance:

A knife is probably one of the most useful tools that man has ever designed. But using a knife for killing, does not make the design a bad thing. Just the misuse of it.

The problems that we have in the world, including disease and imperfection, we have brought upon ourselves...
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:14 PM #388
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

According to wikipedia, "In a 1950 letter to M. Berkowitz, Einstein stated that 'My position concerning God is that of an agnostic.'"

Even if he wasn't, it's hardly a sound argument to claim "so-and-so believed it, so it must be true."
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:00 PM #389
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I could have sworn I read somewhere that he believed in a Creator...

Anyway, I did not say that just because he believed it, that it must be true.

It doesn't really matter what he believed. Each person will believe what makes sense to them. I just used him as an example to illustrate the sound reasoning of:

Design = Designer

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Old 06-23-2009, 09:26 PM #390
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

A pocket mini kit exists, therefore it is a design which has a designer = Jayrob.

A Jayrob MXDL red mod is probably one of the most useful tools that man has ever designed. But using an MXDL Laser for killing, does not make the design a bad thing. Just the misuse of it.



Is it possible? Jayrob = god of LPF?
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:40 PM #391
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

yeah I see what your saying and it is a good argument. I know the people who brought us "Intelligent Design" talk about "irreducible complexity." Their argument was that some systems are so irreducibly complex that some one had to design it. Irreducibly complex systems are those where you cannot remove any component and the system still function.

Irreducible Complexity and Michael Behe on Intelligent Design

My view is that these systems are so complex that there can be no designer. From the tiniest atom to the vastness of the universe, this system is so complex that one person did not set all this in motion. That's just what I believe, always ready to listen to what others believe.

When Richard Dawkins meets God, and asks God, “Sir, why did you take such pains to hide yourself,”

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Old 06-23-2009, 09:58 PM #392
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You crack me up Niko! (but never god of LPF)

With LPF, it is a 'collective' right? We all make up LPF, and we all learn from LPF. On the other hand, I don't want to let LPF be my god... But I sure do spend a lot of time on here!


k1kb0t, that's an interesting viewpoint too! It is amazing how infinitely small things are, as well as infinitely grand. What if the solar systems that are moving in perfect order around stars, which are moving in perfect order with-in galaxy's, which are also moving in perfect order with-in the universe (galaxy's moving among galaxy's), are all just a tiny atom in size comparison to what is out there? Like our solar system is to an ant?
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:45 PM #393
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

From that (wonderfully good, by the way) pamphlet posted earlier:

"Most people think that you need a god to explain the existence of the world. They point to the complexity and order of the universe as sure proof that it was once designed by a conscious entity, but stop one step short of reaching the glaring conclusion to their logic.

Such an intelligent designer, one might well presume, would have to be fairly complex and ordered itself, wouldn't it? Perhaps even more so than the universe? so then what created god?

It is a giant leap from 'we can't yet explain every aspect of the natural world' to 'god did it.' To rid us of a natural difficulty, the theist has invented a supernatural one"



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Old 06-24-2009, 03:39 PM #394
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

For sure we do not have all answers...

As a man, Jesus only spent a brief 3 1/2 years preaching about the Kingdom of God. But in that short span, the things he taught, and miraculous healing that he preformed, caused such an impact on mankind, that the entire world bases it's calender date on his birth!
Edit: (On what man thinks or estimates the year of his birth to have been)

So with that in mind, it just might not be a bad idea to look a little closer at the Bible. What if it really is true?

An ant does not have the mental capacity to figure out how to drive down to the store and buy a 5 lb. bag of sugar. But it is a simple thing for us. There are answers to things we do not understand. There is an answer to infinity. Maybe one day it will be explained to us...
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:14 PM #395
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
As a man, Jesus only spent a brief 3 1/2 years preaching about the Kingdom of God. But in that short span, the things he taught, and miraculous healing that he preformed, caused such an impact on mankind, that the entire world bases it's calender date on his birth!
Small points of contention: it's a popular misconception the AD/BC (CE/BCE) switchover is on the year of the birth of Jesus. Now, with better histories put together, we know that Jesus was probably born around or before 5 BC/BCE. He was born during the reign of Herod the great, who is now generally accepted as having died 4 years before "the switch". It is true, though, that the original western philosophers/theologians intended it to be placed on the year of his birth, it's just that in the 6th century AD/CE they didn't have the ability to get it any closer.

But as far as the rest of the world, you can be sure that the non-Christians don't use that calendar because it's based on Jesus. They adopted the Gregorian calendar much later, like in the past 100 years, because of the convenience of matching the western world. Really, it says more about the influence of the western world than it does about Jesus. It's just that the Gregorian is what the west uses, so other countries changed their own calendars to match the western calendar for convenience. Really, that's the entire reason that the CE/BCE convention exists. You use the same numbers, but calling it CE/BCE removes all religious connotations from the calendar system. The 4+ billion non-Christians of the world use the Gregorian calendar purely for convenience, no other reason at all. It's just the fact that western civilization proved to be the dominant cultural movement in the last couple hundred years, so everyone matched it. It's like the QWERTY keyboard: even if it's not the best, it's what people already use, so everyone matches it purely for the sake of convenience.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:30 PM #396
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I am catholic, but im not very dedicated to my religion. I go to church just a few times in a year( lets say 3 times in a year) but when I go it makes me so boring that I leave before the ceremony ends. Also when i travel to my parents country (Colombia) to visit my girlfriend, She is the one who is more dedicated in religion stuff than me. She makes me go with her and if I dont she really gets angry and it threatens me with stuff if I dont stay with her.
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Old 06-24-2009, 09:39 PM #397
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
the entire world bases it's calender date on [Jesus'] birth!
Funny you should say that, And I direct you to the wikipedia page of christmas which states,
Quote:
The nativity of Jesus, which is the basis for the anno Domini system of dating, is thought to have occurred between 7 and 2 BC. December 25 is not known to be Jesus' actual date of birth, and the date may have been chosen to correspond with either a Roman festival or the winter solstice
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrob View Post
Jesus... caused such an impact on mankind
Again, funny you should say that...



Just think... we could have been exploring the galaxy by now.

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Old 06-24-2009, 10:29 PM #398
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I stand corrected on the date of Jesus' birth...

I edited my point above.

Interesting that Dec. 25th was the Roman festival. They worshiped a Sun god. The days start go get longer again after the 25th.

I believe it was thought that they could unite the people by inventing the holiday Christmas. Since Romans celebrated this day in their 'Sun god' worship, and Christians recognized Jesus as the 'Son of God'...
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Old 06-24-2009, 11:03 PM #399
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

a design does not have to come from a designer, that's a common fallacy of the human cognition.

our brain is "designed" (genetically) to see patterns and create patterns, and we will see patterns in randomness, and perceive it as non-random.

when subjects were asked to generate a list of random numbers, they avoid consecutive runs of numbers thinking that such patterns/runs are too artificial.
Yet such patterns are bound to happen, we just fail to perceive them as random.

RNA has been spontaneously created by zapping elements with electricity; it didn't take a designer to do it.
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:27 AM #400
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by primary View Post
RNA has been spontaneously created by zapping elements with electricity; it didn't take a designer to do it.
What non designer set up the experiment? A man designed and set it up. A man curiously trying to figure out how life was created. How does a universe come into existence without God? Even a random universe would have to be create some how. I am far less interested in proving whether God exists and spend my time discovering what God is like.

BTW Christian here

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