Old 12-04-2014, 11:13 PM #3729
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
I'm not misinformed.

We don't know everything. For example, Uranium 238 shows it's possible for things to happen without a cause, like the matter in the universe to form. That goes against a God. How do I refute that?
This is an example of what teej was saying about tricking those that do not know.

If you knew about nuclear decay, you would have known that is the cause of radioactivity.

If you knew about stellar processes, you would know all elements are created within stars or as they die.

Although, if your above statement where true, how did we create nuclear power and weapons? God didn't tell us.


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Old 12-04-2014, 11:14 PM #3730
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
They take one type of formation, say accretion, and then say "Rocks can therefore form in a short time, and don't need
I think you mean concretion, ya idiot

creationists get caught lying and misrepresenting DELIBERATELY, in order to fool others, quite often

if you think dog breeding refutes evolution, here is a good clip



on homo***uality:



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Old 12-05-2014, 12:16 AM #3731
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
It's interesting to note that most people in the U.S. are christian, or call themselves that at least. the country also has the most prisoners in the world, both total numbers and per capita

this begs the question:

Are americans really that much more criminally inclined than the rest of the world, or is something wrong here?




Pardon my intrusion. I haven't been participating in this discussion, but just a question, does having the "most prisoners in the world" mean we are "much more criminally inclined"? Perhaps we are just more inclined to jail a man for a minor demeanor than other countries? Or maybe we just don't give the death penalty as much? The later can hardly be accurately inferred from the formal, yes?

If you start an argument with a couple statements like that, it ruins credibility.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:56 AM #3732
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Dang, I had nearly finished a response, and accidentally exited the page before posting, so this is take two

Quote:
Pardon my intrusion. I haven't been participating in this discussion, but just a question, does having the "most prisoners in the world" mean we are "much more criminally inclined"? Perhaps we are just more inclined to jail a man for a minor demeanor than other countries? Or maybe we just don't give the death penalty as much? The later can hardly be accurately inferred from the formal, yes?

If you start an argument with a couple statements like that, it ruins credibility.
You are correct on multiple accounts. except I think you meant inferred from the former

It had thought that the statement could be interpreted in some ways I did not intend, but had not edited it. I can do that

while America may not have the highest execution rate, maybe not even per capita, the total number executed in the world are insufficient to explain the descrepancy in total prisoners.

It's my opinion that the main reason America has the highest incarceration rate is that it has been privatized into a new industry, the prison industry, but that's a whole other topic.

Prison?industrial complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I did not even mean to imply that believers are absolutely more criminally inclined.

I DO agree with Aronra's opinion in the video that:

with or without religion we would have good people doing good things, and bad people doing bad things. to get good people to do bad things though, I agree, requires religion

thank you for bringing this to attention, it's good to clarify and I am certainly not above reproof. no pardon needed. on the contrary, you show great intellectual fortitude and grit, and for that I rep you sir. A truth seeker delights in being shown wrong, and welcomes it. such is my philosophy, because knowing the truth and promoting it is far more important than being right. this is why I think those seeking the truth are far more trustworthy than those who claim to have it already. hopefully this restores credibility
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:05 AM #3733
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

If proof is good, reproof must be even better.

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Old 12-05-2014, 01:38 AM #3734
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I dearly hope for the sake of the human race that nobody actually believes the Noah's Ark story.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:06 AM #3735
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
I dearly hope for the sake of the human race that nobody actually believes the Noah's Ark story.
In the big picture what does believing that pirticular story matter? You can argue evolution all day but when it comes down to following Christ day to day actions and the way we treat others shouldn't be affected by it.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:35 AM #3736
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
@teej-your posts are getting so long, I don't even read through them all the way. Please make it a little shorter.
If you actually cared about this topic you would read his words and realize he is a explaining things quite clearly. These explanations can not be dumbed down any more than many people here have tried. If you don't understand the arguments for and against then you shouldn't attempt to refute them. If you can't extend the courtesy and read a persons reply that was written for YOU maybe stop wasting their time by asking questions and for clarification.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:40 AM #3737
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

4,000 year old cuneiform tablet of Flood story found.

Quote:
So, why does this new discovery matter? It matters because it serves as a reminder that the story of the Flood wasn’t set in stone from its earliest version all the way through to its latest incarnation.

The people who wrote down the Flood narrative, in any of its manifestations, weren’t reporting on a historical event for which they had to get their facts straight (like what shape the ark was).

Everyone reshapes the Flood story, and the ark itself, according to the norms of their own time and place.
...or here's Joe the Plumber's version...

Quote:
I’m often amazed at our lack of knowledge about history. Ordinary people are hungry for this information, yet the organizations responsible to disseminate these facts seem to have an agenda to keep us in the dark. This is especially true when it comes to our ancient human history.

I won’t hold you in suspense with this article: The Ark of Noah has been found. It’s real. I’ll describe the evidence in some detail and end with the historical and religious implications.
I too am often amazed



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Old 12-05-2014, 02:50 AM #3738
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
In the big picture what does believing that pirticular story matter?.
Because believing in something so ludicrously impossible demonstrates a severe lack of critical thinking capability. There is such thing as taking too much on faith.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
when it comes down to following Christ day to day actions and the way we treat others shouldn't be affected by it.
I should hope that how you treat others has way more weight on the good/bad scale then weather or not you believe in Christ.
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:53 AM #3739
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerbeak View Post
An odd shaped land formation, "larger than a football field".

Irrefutable evidence that is
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Old 12-05-2014, 03:22 AM #3740
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Because believing in something so ludicrously impossible demonstrates a severe lack of critical thinking capability. There is such thing as taking too much on faith.

I should hope that how you treat others has way more weight on the good/bad scale then weather or not you believe in Christ.
That's pretty judgmental to be honest, and how do you identify what's too much faith?

Also what are you even talking about? A good/bad scale? My point was that believing the story or not shouldn't effect the manner in which a practicing Christ follower deals with others.
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Old 12-05-2014, 03:48 AM #3741
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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That's pretty judgmental to be honest, and how do you identify what's too much faith?

Also what are you even talking about? A good/bad scale? My point was that believing the story or not shouldn't effect the manner in which a practicing Christ follower deals with others.
I would identify too much faith as believing in something that is so completely impossible.

As to the second bit, it would seem I mis-interpreted what you said.
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Old 12-05-2014, 03:51 AM #3742
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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how do you identify what's too much faith?
I can think of one example of having too much faith, when people try to pray a sickness away instead of getting proper medical care. It has happened and people have died because of it.


It reminds me of a joke:
A man was trapped after a flood. After a day a boat came along and offered to rescue him, the man said "no thanks, the lord will save me." The next day a helicopter came and offered to rescue him, the man again said "no thanks, the lord will save me."
He then died, and when he got to heaven he asked God why he didn't save him and God said "What do you mean I didn't try to save you? I sent a boat and a helicopter!"


Having too much faith is when your faith blinds you to common sense.
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Old 12-05-2014, 05:47 AM #3743
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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how do you identify what's too much faith?
.
Any amount of belief with out any evidence could be seen as too much. I think faith is exalted by religions to try to paint it in a positive light because its such a poor method of determining what is real or true. In no other area of peoples lives do they hold beliefs based up the absence of evidence other than with God. Many believers often try to pull the ole equivocation and claim even atheists have faith about things. Except they always use a scenario to make their point that actually DOES have justification to accept. Hence its not faith its trust or confidence.
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:46 AM #3744
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Regarding the idea of the flood and creationist beliefs.
In every other area of a creationist life they deduce what is true or real by where the evidence leads. But when it comes to the age of the earth or the idea of a global flood, logic and reason is tossed aside for willful ignorance.
This acceptance of such a story taken as historical account is gullibility.

There are so many reasons to know this was myth and not an original one at that. I won't bother listing them.

This story is so extraordinary that for many young children's it is their first experience of questioning of the validity of the bible and what they are being taught. So why is that? Even young kids can realize how silly this story is and many denominations of Christianity no longer teach this as historical fact but as myth.

So for a grown adult to believe this story happened is a clear demonstration of willful ignorance.
They are choosing to accept this story first then looking for any way to spin reality to fit their needed belief.

In science and in life you accept what the observations and evidence points toward. There may be instances in life you have to use your gut feeling and guess but that's because their isn't any evidence present to help you decide what to accept or not. In creationism and the flood story it's accept first then look for anything that could possibly be molded and distorted into fitting the claim. I would have some respect for young earth creationist if they admitted what is so glaringly obvious.

That they really have no good reason to reject the science other than they feel they must because somehow it threatens them. People want so badly for something to be true that it doesn't matter what they see or learn. Nothing can get through their denialism.

People are free to bury their head in the sand and accept as fact flood myths and reject the known age of the earth. But because all the observations and all the data in all the sciences ALL points to the same thing, young earth creationists shouldn't pretend their ideas should be taken seriously by anyone. And honestly although they may dislike it they shouldn't be surprised when people laugh at these ideas.
It is the stuff children's books are made of. A creationist is so convinced that this is all very normal and rational that they have a real disconnect about the preposterousness of their ideas. I may not agree but I don't find a person believing in God as absurd. But a global flood or a young earth? Yes absolutely absurd.
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Last edited by olympus mons; 12-05-2014 at 07:15 AM. Reason: sorry for the double post
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