Old 12-03-2014, 09:51 PM #3697
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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secular people do things that are considered wrong by Christians.
It's interesting to note that most people in the U.S. are christian, or call themselves that at least. the country also has the most prisoners in the world, both total numbers and per capita

this begs the question:

Are americans really that much more criminally inclined than the rest of the world, or is something wrong here? (for clarification, refer to post #3741)

It's also interesting to note that while non-believers account for about 10% of the population, they account for something like 00.1% of the prison population. that is to say, about 1 in ten people you meet will not believe in god, while only about 1 in a thousand prisoners will not believe.

my opinion is that it is not hard to sell hope that cant be verified to someone who has no hope at all, not that religious people are more criminally minded per se, though this is sometimes the case. I don't think any truely religious person would not break the law in any number of ways, if they were convinced it was really god's will.

if belief in a god somehow makes a person more moral, and non-believers are less moral, how come there is this GLARING discrepancy?

why did god reward the resisting of first born infanticed ordered by a king in order to save moses, yet turn around and do a little firstborn infanticide himself shortly thereafter? clearly he has his favorites, and it's "no holds barred" for the rest

more people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. when you believe god is on your side, and more importantly can convince others of this, any attrocity becomes possible as god's will. I'm glad I am in this country, where I can say as much, because Islam demands death for apostacy, as well as for making a drawing of the prophet.

If any religious here want to know what it's like to be atheist, just know that you are already atheist about a great number of gods. I just believe in one fewer than the rest





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Old 12-03-2014, 10:00 PM #3698
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Killing and God go hand in hand...

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Almighty GOD, Who art the Author of liberty
and the Champion of the oppressed, hear our prayer.

We, the men of Special Forces, acknowledge
our dependence upon Thee in the preservation of human freedom.

Go with us as we seek to defend the defenseless and to free the enslaved.

May we ever remember that our nation, whose motto
is “In God We Trust”, expects that we shall acquit
ourselves with honor, that we may never bring shame
upon our faith, our families, or our fellow men.

Grant us wisdom from Thy mind, courage from Thine
heart, strength from Thine arm, and protection by Thine hand.

It is for Thee that we do battle, and to Thee belongs the victor’s crown.

For Thine is the kingdom, and the power and the glory, forever. AMEN
No intention to offend, just making a point

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Old 12-03-2014, 10:23 PM #3699
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I believe that the discrepancy in the prison population is due primarily to the large numbers of minorities that are the bulk of the prison population, at least in per capita. There are also many right wing people who fought for tougher laws and longer sentences for crimes that are not even state crimes in my state any longer, or in Colorado as well. These misguided attempts to bring down "crime" which was already at an all time low at the time that these laws were enacted have led to larger prison populations and may have little to do with a person's belief system.
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:16 AM #3700
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
I believe that the discrepancy in the prison population is due primarily to the large numbers of minorities that are the bulk of the prison population, at least in per capita. There are also many right wing people who fought for tougher laws and longer sentences for crimes that are not even state crimes in my state any longer, or in Colorado as well. These misguided attempts to bring down "crime" which was already at an all time low at the time that these laws were enacted have led to larger prison populations and may have little to do with a person's belief system.
I agree with that.

I've worked in some prisons, and the general belief that is shared MOST by everyone incarcerated is that they didn't think they'd get caught.

MOST of them are pretty bad at decision making. People in prisons are to a large degree in for using drugs. They tend to have dependent personalities, and need to have "a crutch" to get through life. They tend to have trouble with addictions, such as alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc.

Many DO pretend to "find god", because they were told that the parole board is more likely to believe you might actually be turning over a new leaf if you suddenly become religious, but the people ON the parole board say they're wise to that, and that the recidivism rate is worse for those who "find god" than the ones who "find a job". Again, most are assumed to be pretending, rather than truly practicing.

As minorities are over represented in the prison system at large, relative to their out of prison demographics, many studies have been done to find out why. The general consensus is that people with fewer legal opportunities tend to be more willing to pursue illegal opportunities.

IE: They have to pay the rent, and Mickey Dee's paycheck is a bit short...but Ms Chavez leaves her window open sometimes....and her pure is right on the table by the window...

So they make a moral choice that they will do something they know is wrong, for the money.

This is exactly like one poster in this thread who admitted (Bravely) that he or she would lie if their boss asked them to....to keep their job.

Same concept, do what is wrong, on purpose, for the money....knowing that its wrong, and, that whoever you lied to would suffer the consequences of your deception (Why else would you need to lie to them?).

The differences are more related to your demographic, in that for example a minority busted in the act is far more likely to be turned in, and, if turned in, more likely to be convicted, and if convicted, to receive a harsher sentence.

So if a bunch of preppy white kids in a suburban neighborhood is surprised by a cop knocking on their car window while they are smoking something not allowed in that area to be smoked...the cop is more likely, statistically, to consider them to be just feeling their oats and out having fun and not a menace to society, and give them a warning and off they go scott free.

If its the same kids in dew rags instead of rugby shirts, the cop is more likely, statistically, to view them as potential threats to society, and out for trouble, and arrest them.

Some of this, in many areas, is magnified to a fine burning point by the presence of gangs. In some areas, if you are not in a gang, you are a victim of the gang. CHILDREN have to choose "sides", or die/suffer serious injuries. MOST kids, regardless of culture, just want to fit in and be accepted....and gangs are the most natural organization of humans...and, naturally, the kids get sucked in.

They tell them they're all brothers, all for one and one for all, and that they must be willing to kill, or die, for their gang without question.

Some of these kids are so dangerous you would not believe it. Cops get used to seeing them, and, even cops of the same minority will start acting prejudiced against their own as a result of endless brutality by these kids.

Its human nature. Soldiers told to win hearts and minds go out and play soccer with kids, give them presents, and its all nice, and then one kills some troops with a bomb, or leads troops into ambushes, and suddenly the perspective shifts, and "they" are all potential enemy combatants, even if they don't shave yet.

Then ALL the kids are treated gruffly and without respect because they might be about to kill you...and if you have to kill them, you don't want to like them first.

So the cops, and judicial system, becomes prejudiced over time. New idealistic cops are fair and unbiased, until they get burned, and, eventually, they too are turned.

They don't get in trouble for letting a preppie go, they don't get in trouble for arresting gang members, but arresting a preppie means a real live lawyer, not a public defender with the rubber plead guilty it gets you out faster stamp...and actual court costs and time, and reports, and character witnesses who knew little Fauntleroy since he was in Choir etc...and, well, the conviction rate is low...from a prosecutor's perspective, it ties up the court too long to be worth it.

Arresting a gang member means in/out guilty, NEXT!

So, they are not in gangs because they are atheists OR Catholics, or Muslims....they are in because joining was a matter of survival. (They were simply wrong about what that survival would look like. If you talk to a kid in a gang, most believe they'll probably be dead by 25 or so at the most. If I drew a bell curve, the center might be ~ 22 -24 yrs...for 12 yr olds.

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Old 12-04-2014, 01:31 AM #3701
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Teej, I was also trying to get across the fact that minorities are also innocent of any crimes and are convicted because they are unable to afford a "real" attorney instead of the public defender who don't really care whether or not they are or are not guilty of the crime they are accused of.
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:49 AM #3702
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Done with this thread. It's going nowhere. Those professional scholars take hours debating, I don't think meandering here on a forum will get either of our points across.
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:49 AM #3703
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
Teej, I was also trying to get across the fact that minorities are also innocent of any crimes and are convicted because they are unable to afford a "real" attorney instead of the public defender who don't really care whether or not they are or are not guilty of the crime they are accused of.
I did mention that in my allusion to the public defender with the rubber pleading guilty gets you out faster stamp.

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Old 12-04-2014, 01:55 AM #3704
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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(How many bibles did you read, and evaluate, to be SURE the ONE you refer to is actually the "right" bible?)




Last verses, where the angry Leprechaun essentially says that if you don't believe he exists, he will punish you.

The book of life thing taken from the tree of life thing.

So the Church, a few hundred years after Jesus was dead, added a section to go with their new Bible/Word of God propaganda product, that if you better believe the propaganda or bad things will happen, etc.

IE:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Translation: Copy this and mail it to ten other people. Someone you don't even know didn't pass this chain letter on to 10 other people, and they suffered a horrible agonizing death, and then an eternity of suffering by yet another immortal supernatural being, so, you better copy this chain letter and pass it along, or, suffer the same horrible fate.




(Pasted)



The following is an excerpt from Dr. Thomas Holland's Crowned With Glory, 2000, used with permission.
Revelation 22:19 -"book of life" and the last six verses of Revelation 22

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

While the focus of this verse deals with the phrase "book of life" as opposed to "tree of life." the issue is deeper. The manuscript Codex 1r used by Desiderius Erasmus to produce his Greek New Testament is missing the last six verses of Revelation chapter twenty-two. It is thought that Erasmus took the Latin Vulgate and retranslated these verses back into Greek. [1] Assuming this hypothesis is true we must ask ourselves the following questions. First, if Erasmus did in fact make use of the Latin Vulgate to supply these last six verses, has the usage of the Latin corrupted the text? Second, was Codex 1r really the only Greek manuscript used by Erasmus for this passage?

Certainly the Latin Vulgate and the Greek Textus Receptus are similar in these last six verses. This, of course, would be natural if the Latin was based on early Greek manuscripts that correspond with the Textus Receptus. We must remember that most of the Greek manuscripts of the second, third, and fourth centuries have not survived the passage of time. However, the Vulgate and the Textus Receptus are not identical either. For example, the conclusion of Revelation 22:20 reads in the Receptus, Amen. Nai, erchou, kurie Iesou (Amen. Even so, come Lord Jesus). The Latin reads, amen veni Domine Iesu (Amen come Lord Jesus). The Textus Receptus includes an additional affirmation nai (even so), an addition not found in either the Greek Critical Text or the Latin Vulgate.

If Erasmus did translate back into Greek from the Latin text, he did an astounding job. These six verses consist of one hundred thirty-six Greek words in the Textus Receptus, and one hundred thirty-two Greek words in the Critical Text. There are only eighteen textual variants found within these verses when the two texts are compared. [2] Such textual variants, both in number and nature, are common throughout the New Testament between these two Greek texts. For example, the preceding six verses, Revelation 22:10-15, have fourteen textual variants which are of the same nature, and in Revelation 21:3-8 we find no fewer than twenty textual variants. One would expect, therefore, a greater number of textual variants if Erasmus was translating from the Latin back into Greek, and yet the two texts are extremely close. Even if he did translate from the Latin into Greek it would have no bearing on the doctrine of biblical preservation. Preservation simply demands that God has kept and preserved the words throughout the generations from the time of their inception until this present day and even beyond. It does not demand that these words be preserved in the original languages only.

However, this brings us to our second question. Did Erasmus really translate the Latin back into Greek? Textual scholar Herman C. Hoskier argued that Erasmus did not do this. Instead, he suggests that Erasmus used other Greek manuscripts such as 2049 (which Hoskier calls 141), and the evidence seems to support this position. [3] Manuscript 2049 contains the reading found in the Textus Receptus including the textual variant of Revelation 22:19. To this we can also add the Greek manuscript evidence of 296, and the margin of 2067.

Additionally, the Greek text copied by Erasmus in Revelation 22:16-21 reflects a consistency that is found elsewhere in the Textus Receptus, suggesting that it was copied from other Greek manuscripts and not translated from the Latin back into Greek. In Revelation 22:16 we find the phrase tou dabid (the David) in the Textus Receptus as opposed to the Critical Text's dauid (David). While the English would translate the two identically, it is interesting to note that in Revelation 3:7 we find the same thing. In that passage the Textus Receptus places the definite article before the name of David just as it does in Revelation 22:16, while the Critical Text does not use the definite article before David's name in either passage.

To counter this it has been noted that within the text of Erasmus at Revelation 22:16-21 there are a few unusual spellings, for example elthe (come) instead of the normal erchou (come). This suggests that Erasmus was copying from a Greek manuscript and not translating from the Latin. Erasmus, it should be remembered, was one of the greatest scholars and thinkers of his day. He was fluent in Greek and several other languages. He would have known that the normal New Testament word for come is not elthe but is instead erchou. In fact, Erasmus used erchou in Revelation 22:7; 22:12; and even in 22:20. There must have been a reason for Erasmus to depart from the normal form of the word and write elthe in 22:17. Moreover, the Latin for come in 22:17 is the same Latin word in 22:20, veni. This further suggests that Erasmus was not really translating from the Latin, but was using an additional Greek manuscript other than Codex 1r.

Likewise, there is textual evidence for the reading book of life instead of tree of life. As noted above, the reading is found in a few Greek manuscripts. It is the main reading among the Latin witnesses. The phrase book of life is also the reading of the Old Bohairic version. Finally, it is the reading found in the writings of Ambrose (397 AD), Bachiarius (late fourth century), Primasius (552 AD) and Haymo (ninth century).

One must also consider the internal evidence. The phrase tree of life appears seven times in the Old Testament and three times in the New Testament. In these verses we are told we will be able to eat of this tree, and that this tree of Eden will reappear in Eternity. The idea that one can have their share taken away from the tree of life seems abnormal to Scripture. However, the phrase book of life appears seven other times in the New Testament (Phil.4:3; Rev. 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12, 15; and 21:27). In each case we find the book of life either contains or does not contain names, or names are blotted out of it. Therefore, the phrase, "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life," is extremely consistent with the biblical texts.

As can be seen from this text, the warning is ominous. While one may understand this passage to apply only to the book of Revelation, it is clear from other passages that the same is true of the whole of Scripture (Deuteronomy 4:2; Proverbs 30:6). When applied to the verses discussed in this chapter we must conclude that somewhere in the process of transmission someone either added to the text or omitted from it. There's the rub, and it should be taken seriously. Scholarship is a noble and honorable profession. However, it ceases to be both if it seeks to usurp the authority of the Lord God. After all, our commitment does not so much rest with our scholarship as it does with the ultimate Scholar.



[1] Erika Rummel, Erasmus' Annotations on the New Testament: From Philologist to Theologian (Toronto: University of Toronto Press, 1986), 93. It is claimed that Erasmus openly declares in the Annotations of his 1516 edition (page 675) that he "ex nostris Latinis supplevimus Graeca" (supplied the Greek from the Latin). Thus the claim that last six verses of Revelation chapter twenty-two were retranslated from the Vulgate into Greek. However, the reprint of the 1516 edition of Erasmus does not contain this phrase on page 675 of his Annotations, which is the conclusion of his notes on the book of Revelation. Nor is such a phrase found elsewhere in that edition.




So, who's word?

Who's chain letter is the RIGHT CHAIN LETTER?



Whoa whoa whoa, no the church didn't right that. The Bible says all the Bibles words are God breathed an that he inspired everything written. Nothing was added after.
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:57 AM #3705
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Done with this thread. It's going nowhere. Those professional scholars take hours debating, I don't think meandering here on a forum will get either of our points across.
LOL

Actually, everyone made their points...and every one heard everyone else, but if you want well informed intelligent people to agree the world is 6,000 yrs old or that there's no such thing as evolution, or that Christians don't sin but everyone else does, you'd have an uphill battle.

If you want to point out that "problem is that O2 is needed for combustion", your point is well taken, and, universally agreed to in the context under discussion...it is needed, and there are fire triangle charts and all sorts of evidence to prove you are indeed correct.

You have made your point, and, everyone here is convinced that you are right.

You DID essentially also take pains to post that you are NOT trying to change anyone's mind, and everyone is free to make their own choices...and that your beliefs are yours.

So, in summary, I think we disagree about some of the points, and agree on others.

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Old 12-04-2014, 02:17 AM #3706
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Done with this thread. It's going nowhere. Those professional scholars take hours debating, I don't think meandering here on a forum will get either of our points across.
probably the cognitive dissonance kicking in.

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

first two paragraphs:

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced, individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable and are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance, as well as actively avoiding situations and information which are likely to increase it.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:22 AM #3707
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Done with this thread. It's going nowhere. Those professional scholars take hours debating, I don't think meandering here on a forum will get either of our points across.
On the contrary, its gone to some very good places. Your points have gone no where maybe that's what you meant. If you wan't to engage in the Great Debate you need to learn more. Much more. Its quite clear you really don't know these topics at any depth below surface level understanding and even then there were some things your own fellow Christians would probably have cringed at hearing. You are reciting things you have heard but don't actually grasp the meaning or concepts so when you are challenged you have no where to go. At least people took it easy on you. Not sure if you are aware of that or not. Probably not.
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Whoa whoa whoa, no the church didn't right that. The Bible says all the Bibles words are God breathed an that he inspired everything written. Nothing was added after.
O well then...if the bible says the bibles true then of coarse! Have you been saving that ace up your sleeve all week? You should really follow through with your idea of not engaging further. Do you know what a circular argument is? If not see the above example in the text box aka your reply.

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Old 12-04-2014, 02:38 AM #3708
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
Whoa whoa whoa, no the church didn't right that. The Bible says all the Bibles words are God breathed an that he inspired everything written. Nothing was added after.
Oh, wait, missed that....well they tried to right it I think, or at least make it more right.

If you want to go to the Vatican (I've been to the Vatican) and look at the documents, or, read the references posted by scholars who actually do this for a living, you would see that there are MANY MANY MANY versions of the bible....and, they have differences.

So even if the people who made up the bible tell you a story about who wrote it, it doesn't mean what they said means any more than anything else they wrote.

So they added to the bible, and left stuff out, over and over and over again.

The edited it.

Compare the King James to any of the other main bibles out there....there are differences.

Compare THOSE bibles to the Latin versions or Greek versions....more differences. There's stuff in the older ones that are different...so, which version is "right"?

If all of them are gods word with no editing, how can they end up different?

You can simply say, I have the 237th version, and, I believe IT is the unadulterated word of god....and assume the versions closer to the original date of creation were NOT the word of god, and theologians in the church, um, corrected the new versions to give you the new "right" version?

Do you HAVE a 300 year old version? How about a version written 300 years after Jesus died?

I would think logically, that the version that came out FIRST would be the closest to the "right" version, because, typically, if you can't edit something because its perfect...all versions after that first one would also be perfect.

BUT, the problem is that you probably don't OWN a first edition bible (You COULD shock me and show some ancient tome...), but one printed in perhaps the last hundred years or so...WELL over a THOUSAND of years after the first one.

Did it get edited a few times over those almost two thousand years?

Yeah, it did. It was not in English for example...gods words were not in English. Some was in Aramaic. There are Latin and Greek versions.

As one other poster mentioned, some errors were the moral equivalent of typos, a scribe trying to translate from one language to another would read a passage, think it said one thing, and write that in the new language...and, millennia later, some scholar with the older version would scratch his head and say...hey, it says the guy was 8 yrs old here, and 18 yrs old there...

And sometimes the church would decide that a particular story would better illustrate a moral or point they wanted to make, so they'd edit a passage or two to better make the point.

This lead to other problems in continuity though if you want to treat it as history instead of as inspiring parable, etc.

So, the church has edited "the bible".

The church itself has earlier versions and newer versions, and, they are different.

If you can have the first one be "right and perfect", and the others after that you reject as not the word of god, that would be fair....but you'd need to learn some ancient tongues before you'd be able to start the process in a meaningful fashion.

If you want to simply insist that the one written almost 2 thousand years later is the same as the one written almost 2 thousand years earlier...even the church would laugh at that...its SO well documented its not really up for debate.

You could start with some of the versions mentioned in that pasted part....and compare some of them....or, compare the VATICAN SCHOLARS' interpretation of them, etc.

Did you know the Vatican has an observatory? They not only admit that they were wrong about the whole "world is at the center of the universe" thing, they now contribute to the science of Astronomy in a real and concrete way. The Jesuit Brother (Guy) in charge is a real scientist, and, is passionate about his work.

He combines his love of science with his love of god, and, makes a difference in the world. Very down to earth guy despite his "heavenly" involvement.

He believes in evolution, and says the world is billions of years old, can explain the big bang and astrophysics in detail, and how it all works and is not impossible, and wishes the loonies saying otherwise would stop making it harder for intelligent people to accept Jesus.


The very same techniques used to add up the age of the earth were used to predict when the second coming would be, and, well, some very recent attempts to get that date were very embarrassing for the dopes who gave away all their possessions and money, etc, because they were planning on the rapture date given to them.

Some fell for it TWICE in a few year period, when the guy who got it wrong, then claimed he forgot to carry a two or something like that, and NOW he was SURE, he rechecked his math, and THIS TIME the rapture was guaranteed! But, the date came and went, and, he went too.

It would be different if the bible itself included a day planner that listed important dates to help mankind, like:

January 25, 10 pm, Tsunami will strike the coast of Florida off Miami.

January 31, 10 pm, Rapture.

October 19, 10 pm, Raiders win Superbowl



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Old 12-04-2014, 03:14 AM #3709
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

They translated it to the best of their ability. They didn't change it. Many scholars who are knowledgeable in many languages would say that the current existing translations are very accurate, and at the very least, some words have more than one meaning.
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:30 AM #3710
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
They translated it to the best of their ability. They didn't change it. Many scholars who are knowledgeable in many languages would say that the current existing translations are very accurate, and at the very least, some words have more than one meaning.
Um, not the real scholars.

Its not just mistranslations, it actual SECTIONS AND STORIES.

So, sure, considering what they had to do, especially by hand way back...it was back breaking work...and they got through it...but, they made BOTH mistakes, and changes, over the years.

So there's simple errors like 18 to 81, and stuff like guessing at what things meant, and being wrong. There's translation errors, transcription errors, poor translations that lead to some odd versions...etc. One version had a translation about blowing horns, and, the translator took it upon himself to translate that as Jews having horns, and jews were depicted as having horns. This was popular at the time, as the church was prosecuting jews, and depicting them with horns (Like the devil's) was a great way to spread the word about how evil they were. Later versions simply left out those parts.


There's also idiom, some things just don't translate. If a passage said something like "And then he bought the farm", and, at the time, it meant he died, and, hundreds of years later, it was translated as the guy not dying, but actually buying a farm...except, then, the new expression for buying a farm is "getting into livestock", which, in the next language, is a euphemism for liking to sodomize sheep, and, eventually, the story takes on new meaning. Someone then reads about this guy who did this and that and then sodomized sheep, and thinks, wait, what's the MORAL here? We can't have the guy sodomize sheep and nothing bad happen? Surely the part where he was punished for that was left out? So they pore over the manuscripts, and, either find a way to work sheep into the beginning of the story, so the end has a punchline/comeuppance, or, they add a section about how he was punished for it despite being a good man before that...or whatever worked as a story that made more sense....or, they just shrug and decide the story has no value as a lesson or allegory, etc, and they just leave it out altogether. (Made up using modern idiom...)

So, some like to interpret the bible down to whether some one said one preposition vs another, because one preposition could be taken one way, and the other would allow another meaning...but given the translation accuracy, doing that over an ENGLISH version is an exorcize in futility.

Its like the two people arguing on the plane to Hawaii about whether its pronounced "Hah Why He" or "Hah Vy He"...and they arrive and go up to a native and ask, and the native says its pronounced "Hah Vy He", and they say think you, and he says You're Velcome".







So the ~ 2k yr old version is NOT THE SAME as the versions you buy at the bookstore or Amazon, etc.

They describe different events in some cases. Some differences are who was at the tomb, how did Judas die, did Jesus get vinegar or myrrh concoctions, where was he when anointed, etc...

The accounts, in the bibles, differ.

How can that be?

Easy: editing.

They changed it. A lot. Many times. You can READ the different versions.

I'll wait.


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Old 12-04-2014, 03:40 AM #3711
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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First video, wow, enjoyed that. The end was worth it but man, talk about a dystopian future

Second video, Lol

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Old 12-04-2014, 04:22 AM #3712
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I don't understand you teej, you just don't make sense to me, but maybe I don't to you.

Last edited by USAbro; 12-04-2014 at 04:32 AM.
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