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Old 11-26-2014, 09:21 PM #3617
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Default Re: LPF's Religion





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Old 11-26-2014, 09:40 PM #3618
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
To me, creating a universe from nothing, and then having everything work perfectly out for the perfect situation where the world is the right size, distances are right, types of materials are right, everything is right, and then somehow, living beings like us somehow evolved out of the explosion is crazy.
Well fortunate for humankind science doesn't care about yours or anyones personal laymen's opinions, gut feelings, or wild hairs. Nor is science done by popular consensus. So personal opinions and inability to make sense of the data in no way discredits anything. Its your right to think and feel anyway you want but it ends there. A personal gut feeling. It should have no bearing on the world yet sadly it does. Mainly in Lower education and schools.
We are falling further and further behind as the leader in science and technology as a country due to things like creationism being forced into places it has no business being. The science class room. couple that with the indoctrination of our nations youth to think the evil scientists can't be trusted and their explanations are as you put it, crazy. Save that stuff for theology or even history class its not science never will be. Its holding us back as a nation and holding back us as a species. This is why I try to help people understand critical thinking and its importance. Rather than tell people what to think Its more important to help them learn HOW to think. Critical thinking and rational discourse is key to our future.

The difference between what we are both saying is one of us is at least trying to back up points with verifiable facts and findings or at least sound reasoning. I don't go out on limbs or give my opinions. Although I don't yet have a Phd I do have a firm understanding of the value of the scientific method as well as give credit to men and woman that have done the work and know what they're talking about. It takes some pretty serious arrogance to not have studied a specialized field like particle and theoretical physics yet claim that those brilliant peoples findings are bat shit crazy.

You know how people use the term Pursuit Of Happiness to describe their life. Well , mine can be described as The Pursuit Of truth. I WANT TO BELIEVE AS MANY TRUE THINGS AND AS FEW FALSE THINGS AS POSSIBLE. I wish more felt this way. It matters it truly does.
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:54 PM #3619
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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The claim is skin has color. I accept that claim as true. AI accept the true claim because it can be demonstrated that skin has color independently verified and tested. Not only that, I can KNOW skin has color. Knowledge=justified true belief. I am justified in believing skin has color because I can give empirical evidence showing such...
glad you are a "believer" that feels justified
However, in reality skin is transparent. It is the melanocytes which are the cells that produce melanin which actually colour our skin.

Just as when we dive deeper into religion, it's actually not important what one believes (Thor vs. Jeebus vs FSM), but how we act, and the true intent behind the actions (are we acting out of love, or fear).

Skin = what we do
Melanin = intention
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Old 11-27-2014, 05:39 PM #3620
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Atheism (....ism?) is claimed not to be a belief "system" in the way religions are, atheists claim there is no evidence for God and that the burden of proof lies upon religion to prove otherwise.

I still think both groups of people are two sides of the same coin, they claim to know too much, one side requiring no proof of the existence of God and calling it faith, the other requiring proof and calling it reality but you will find that both a deeply religious individual and an atheist have one thing in common, they strongly believe one way or the other.

While those who are religious will agree they are part of a belief system, atheists won't. I suppose that is because there are few atheist organizations but lets level that out, remove all the dogma, churches priests and lets turn a religious individual to someone who merely has faith there is a God and an atheist as someone who denies the existence of God requiring proof. One states there is a God, the other there is no God.

Both claim to know too much, I think.

I think if you seek you will find, if you seek to know if God exists you will find what you are looking for, if you believe there is no proof of God and seek reasoning to show you are right, you will also find that is true too.

From what I just wrote I guess you would call me an agnostic, in that case... The middle layer of that same coin. We are all in the same boat, we don't really know much, do we. Maybe we all live in our own worlds, as we create them to be inside of us, in our minds, but at the same time we do not live in a total vacuum either, I don't think the universe works that way and because of that I believe there is a way out and that is through ourselves, that the kingdom of God is within (I don't like using the word "God" much, because of the religious baggage which comes with that). Do I claim to know this? No, I don't know much at all, do I believe this? I think so, at least, I'm not seeking to prove otherwise.

Will I claim any religion is the truth and the way? Hell no. I don't like it when people claim to know so much for an absolute truth. I don't see evidence any religion is the truth, nor will I state there isn't something more to reality on a spiritual plane for us, I think there is. From my perspective, for consciousness, we very well may be able to continue to exist beyond the death of the body. Why would I say that? I think we are beginning to see how that might be possible and it has nothing to do with religion.

Please don't start quoting sections of what I just wrote and tearing it apart for some logical position or another, I don't claim to know anything, I 'm just sharing my thoughts. Share you thoughts on your own platform without tearing at me please.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

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Old 11-27-2014, 05:59 PM #3621
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post

Both claim to know too much, I think.
I fail to see how choosing not to believe in due to no independently verifiable evidence is any way the same as choosing to believe due to upbringing, fear, comfort or any common reason to believe.

Atheist accept what is there, how is that claiming to know to much? Does that mean knowing only what is knowable is knowing too much?
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Old 11-27-2014, 06:19 PM #3622
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

OK, they deny too much, I don't see how we can know for sure. Absence of proof does not always mean it isn't true. We will never have an agreement on this planet of what "God" really means, I don't know what it really means. In that way, I think atheists are correct, the concept of God as we know it doesn't exist, I see no proof of it. But do I know much in regard to such a big question? No, I can only relate my own personal experiences and they lead me to believe religion and atheism are both wrong, from the larger perspective.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 11-27-2014, 06:34 PM #3623
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
Please don't start quoting sections of what I just wrote and tearing it apart for some logical position or another, I don't claim to know anything, I 'm just sharing my thoughts. Share you thoughts on your own platform without tearing at me please.
LP its a conversation. The quote button is there because this is the best way to converse with accuracy and not put words in someones mouth. I won't quote you then but you can't ask people to not respond to your words. That's unreasonable.

I will say this I think this is a really good quality discourse of the topic and would thank everyone invloved for having an insightful respectful discussion. Its pretty rare on forums for this topic to go this well, lol.
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Old 11-27-2014, 06:44 PM #3624
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You are correct, quotes have more of a function than just to take a small part of a post and tear at it, I stand corrected. Strangely enough, one of the most valuable things I have come to understand is that I can be wrong and I don't really know much for sure. I can have perspectives to fill a truck, real knowledge? Now where did I put that, hard to find such a small thing.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 11-27-2014, 06:49 PM #3625
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
You are correct, quotes have more of a function than just to take a small part of a post and tear at it, I stand corrected. Strangely enough, one of the most valuable things I have come to understand is that I can be wrong and I don't really know much for sure. I can have perspectives to fill a truck, real knowledge? Now where did I put that, hard to find such a small thing.
But the great thing LP is that you have the honesty to recognize this within yourself. That is a very important and admirable attribute and one I wish was more common.
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Old 11-27-2014, 10:15 PM #3626
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Old 11-28-2014, 09:06 PM #3627
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

LOL....Funny cartoon, I agree with it, but at the same time it is a healthy outlook to be thankful for something, even if only an illusion.

Cyparagon just negged me for asking people not to quote a small part of what I'm writing and use that little piece to attack me on my views of religion, what an arse that man can be! Got to love him for his honesty but you don't have to like him for his back side when it shows up, too often Cyparagon are you also this quick to miff in your everyday life outside of the forum? LOL... I lost 30% of my rep all at once because someone with a high reputation can do that with one vote but regardless, it didn't really change anything for me, I will still ask members to bear with me on such topics whether he personally likes it or not.

Cyparagon, please feel free to quote me on this and tear away, I think you need the release.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 11-29-2014, 12:31 AM #3628
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nwfreefly View Post
Well fortunate for humankind science doesn't care about yours or anyones personal laymen's opinions, gut feelings, or wild hairs. Nor is science done by popular consensus. So personal opinions and inability to make sense of the data in no way discredits anything. Its your right to think and feel anyway you want but it ends there. A personal gut feeling. It should have no bearing on the world yet sadly it does. Mainly in Lower education and schools.
We are falling further and further behind as the leader in science and technology as a country due to things like creationism being forced into places it has no business being. The science class room. couple that with the indoctrination of our nations youth to think the evil scientists can't be trusted and their explanations are as you put it, crazy. Save that stuff for theology or even history class its not science never will be. Its holding us back as a nation and holding back us as a species. This is why I try to help people understand critical thinking and its importance. Rather than tell people what to think Its more important to help them learn HOW to think. Critical thinking and rational discourse is key to our future.

The difference between what we are both saying is one of us is at least trying to back up points with verifiable facts and findings or at least sound reasoning. I don't go out on limbs or give my opinions. Although I don't yet have a Phd I do have a firm understanding of the value of the scientific method as well as give credit to men and woman that have done the work and know what they're talking about. It takes some pretty serious arrogance to not have studied a specialized field like particle and theoretical physics yet claim that those brilliant peoples findings are bat shit crazy.

You know how people use the term Pursuit Of Happiness to describe their life. Well , mine can be described as The Pursuit Of truth. I WANT TO BELIEVE AS MANY TRUE THINGS AND AS FEW FALSE THINGS AS POSSIBLE. I wish more felt this way. It matters it truly does.
Cheers
Well said. However, you noted that creationism is being forced into schools where it is not supposed to be. In truth, if you mean that any belief system should not be forced into an objective environment, then atheism should really be banned from schools as it is an intrinsic belief.
However, if one looks closer into what it means to be objective, one discovers that in the end, there is no pure objectiveness per se. Why is this? Because believing that there is such a thing as objectiveness and that it is possible to achieve that goal is in itself a belief. In the end, certain beliefs must be kept, certain ultimate grounds trusted by faith. Agnosticism, or the belief that one cannot know a belief, is questionable in this light.

Whatever. Well said.

EDIT: @LaserProject,
'tis true sometimes. Must turn the other cheek.
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Last edited by NRGLite; 11-29-2014 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:35 AM #3629
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Instead of believing religion or atheists, I am tending towards Biocentrism as being the reality we find ourselves in. According to biocentrism, a new "theory of everything," the material and immaterial worlds are co-relative. Life and consciousness represents one side of the equation, matter and energy the other.

Art Bell interviews Robert Lanza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tGUfXOe9Jg

http://www.robertlanzabiocentrism.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXZOhqbQsOw&feature=plcp
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Sam's Laser FAQ: Sam's Laser FAQ: Welcome Page

RHD's Relative Perceived Brightness Calculator. Compare brightness @nm: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/relativebrightness

To shorten my signature I have moved most of my laser related web links to this forum page, the second post in that thread shows most of my builds... Alaskan's Laser Links: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/al...ml#post1449395


Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.
.........................
PhotoB****t high jacking you too? Use this link instead:
http://imgbb.com

High resolution of my avatar: https://ibb.co/fWOhXF

Last edited by Alaskan; 11-29-2014 at 01:53 AM.
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:38 AM #3630
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Which might be why so many people are pissed when someone plays around with his cat with a 5+ mW laser pointer
In all seriousness, that is a view of ethics, but isn't the ultimate belief religion.
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-James Thurber (unadapted)

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET HIGHLY OFF-TOPIC:
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"If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; if thine enemy be thirsty, give him water to drink;so will you heap burning coals upon his head, and God will reward thee."-Proverbs.
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Old 11-29-2014, 04:26 AM #3631
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
Cyparagon just negged me for...
For asserting that you are above criticism.

Your attitude of "I'm right, and no one can say otherwise" needs to stop. You'll continue to receive red bars from me as long as it continues.
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Old 11-29-2014, 04:38 AM #3632
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

All the issues associated with religion or lack thereof (and there are issues, that's inarguable) would be reduced (if not completely eradicated) if people could just keep their beliefs to themselves, not try and force it or what they think are "proper" life choices onto anyone else.

We have the creativity and capability to believe whatever we want to believe, and by the same effect we are all different and as a species/society will never, ever, all believe the exact same thing.
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