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Old 11-14-2014, 08:35 PM #3569
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Ash View Post
This

"If God has created the world, his primary worry was certainly not to make its understanding easy for us.." - Albert Einstein
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Old 11-14-2014, 11:48 PM #3570
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Well in that case, if you're only doing to be on the safe side, how do you know you're believing in the right god?


Religion Adherents
Christianity 2.2 billion
Islam 1.6 billion
Secular[a]/Nonreligious[b]/Agnostic/Atheist ≤ 1.1 billion
Hinduism 1 billion
Chinese traditional religion[c] 394 million
Buddhism[d] 376 million
Ethnic religions excluding some in separate categories 300 million
African traditional religions 100 million
Sikhism 23 million
Juche[e] 19 million
Spiritism 15 million
Judaism 14 million
Bahá'í 7 million
Jainism 4.2 million
Shinto 4 million
Cao Dai 4 million
Zoroastrianism 2.6 million
Tenrikyo 2 million
Neo-Paganism 1 million

And since you do confine yourself to that one belief, does that not make you more or a sinner, since you are aware that you are sinning against god, as opposed to say an atheist, agnostic, or believer or another religion who sins from a lack of understanding?

Seems like a no win proposition
Sorry, just have to comment on the first part of this.

If I were to say:

90% of the population believes that ALL lasers should be outlawed and possession made illegal, and ALL "mobile" lasers confiscated.
5% of the population believes that only people misusing lasers should be punished.
It's obvious that everyone agrees, and the 90% are absolutely correct. (because they have the consensus.)

Just because "everybody" believes it does NOT make it true.

I guess it is like Cyparagon has previously said about "appeals to authority." (I think that is the right term, correct me if it's not.)
/end rant]

Sorry, I guess it's my pet peeve about people confusing what they THINK it is vs. what it IS.
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Old 11-15-2014, 03:02 AM #3571
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I have no religion, but I can see that it does a lot of good for some. It's a shame so much bad is done in its name.
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Old 11-15-2014, 04:06 AM #3572
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Here's what gets me; you can be highly spiritual without being religious, you can be religious without being spiritual..... So, what is religion other than a belief system? Is that it, a belief system? Is that what people are killing others over in these religious wars going on, mere beliefs? Why are beliefs so important some are willing to give up their lives, or take someone else's life over? That's some powerful mental wiring to do that, why is that wiring so powerful?

Imagine a world without religion, sounds pretty good, doesn’t it? No religious bigotry, no “righteous” judgment, no cruelty “in the name of God,” no holy wars, no honor killings, and no shame in just being yourself. I could live in a world like that but a world completely devoid of spirituality isn't something I'd want.

Can you be spiritual without being religious? I say yes, and I think all would be well for those who are.

Don't ask me to define spirituality or equate it, I don't think I can do it justice, maybe hint at some of its facets, but as a whole, it is something I aspire to have but master, not, a far not. I believe in spirituality, something love is a part of, something I will never kill another human being over, something I think is a part of consciousness at its base and for which consciousness can grow into to find a wonderful fulfilling wholeness at our full potential, at our full potential able to accept one another for what we are, even if such opposes that acceptance and seeks to destroy such unity.

IF there be a God I think such has little to do with religion and lives in the silence between all thought and word. No judgment, no reward, no punishment, never has, never will, but all we see and become rides on it, exists due to its eternally inexplicable existence which requires no one to believe in it to have their own fruitful existence, to become what they will.

I am beginning to think it is better not to believe in a forever hidden God you will never find as you think it exists, far better to believe in each other and the good you can do for one another. Strange thing can happen, some religious groups come close to doing just that, believing in the good they can do for one another, but far too often they have this God thing that keeps getting in the way. I don't think God hides its existence without reason, the reason is clear, love one another, not your beliefs in a supreme being, not a God you can't see. Religion based on God can turn very evil but based on love for one another can be heaven on Earth.

If you feel you need to be close to God, just be spiritual, that is as close as you can get and is far more direct than trying to get there through a religion, no matter what they promise.
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Old 11-15-2014, 04:10 AM #3573
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I don't really have a religion I suppose. I think God exist but I don't really attend church or pray on a regular basis

-Alex
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Old 11-15-2014, 04:54 AM #3574
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Obviously I don't think it is necessary to believe in God or go to church, but at the same time I think this thing we call God exists.... except for myself the only kind of God I can currently accept is one which does not need, desire or require to be worshipped by its own creation, one which never punishes or rewards us for anything we will ever do, one which created reality such that we are our own reward or punishments by the nature of our own acts and what we become from doing so.

I believe this is the reality we find ourselves in now, but also with the belief that individual consciousness can be eternal. I suppose this doesn't necessarily mean any one of us will exist forever as some kind of self-conscious entity, but I think we can, if we follow the path which will allow it (nothing to do with religion). However, after a long enough period of time I suspect what you know yourself as today can be something so different from what you can become, you might not believe the transformation possible.

What do I really know of all of this? Nothing. I'm dreaming it up folks, obviously, as I row my boat along. There's a strange solace in the realizing that I don't really know much of anything for sure, except that I think and therefore I am, I know my own reality and have hints of yours where my ability to understand allows it, but that's about it. Why a solace? Not really knowing much for sure (even if you believe you do) makes us innocent in many ways.
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"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

Last edited by Alaskan; 11-15-2014 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 11-15-2014, 07:03 AM #3575
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Unfortunately I would have to refer to myself as atheist yet I think thats an unnecessary label. ie, What do we call a person that doesn't collect stamps? I guess Ive heard no sound or valid argument nor read or experienced anything to suggest the existence of supernature let alone a god or supreme being. But trust me, Ive searched. The application of critical thinking seems to be quite a damper on the god claim.

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Old 11-15-2014, 01:25 PM #3576
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

So you not aithiest, your agnostic?
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:55 PM #3577
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
So you not aithiest, your agnostic?
atheist is the default position. We don't say "there may or may not be unicorns". We are entitled to live our lives as though unicorns do not exist until they have been proven to exist.

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Unfortunately I would have to refer to myself as atheist yet I think thats an unnecessary label. ie, What do we call a person that doesn't collect stamps?
Imagine a world where 90% of humans collect stamps, and stamp collecting ran every facet of these peoples' lives AND afterlives. There would be a certainly be a word for a person that does not collect stamps in said world.

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
what is religion other than a belief system?
Religion is a belief system that requires faith. Faith of course, is defined as belief without evidence. So religion is a belief system that requires the acceptance of ideas without evidence. Your idea of spirituality is exactly that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
you can be highly spiritual without being religious, you can be religious without being spiritual.

...what is religion...?

...Don't ask me to define spirituality...

...If you feel you need to be close to God, just be spiritual...
So... they're two completely different concepts, but you don't know what either concept is?

AND YET one is a perfectly reasonable substitute for the other?
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Old 11-15-2014, 04:59 PM #3578
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Religion is a belief system that requires faith. Faith of course, is defined as belief without evidence. So religion is a belief system that requires the acceptance of ideas without evidence. Your idea of spirituality is exactly that.

So... they're two completely different concepts, but you don't know what either concept is?

AND YET one is a perfectly reasonable substitute for the other?
Your ability to base all I understand on a few words posted in a forum is equally amusing to me - Posts like this are the reason I said I won't tell you what spirituality means except for a few facets of it, it is easy for anyone, from low to high IQ to wrongly argue and debase any statement made by anyone, especially in forums. Anyway, I shared what I was willing to share, for those who understand or don't disagree I won't get rebuffs, for those who either don't understand or disagree, quotes and laughs, especially if their sense of reality is too far different. Besides, I am still growing spiritually like everyone else, whether they know it or not. My sense of spirituality might be wrong for someone else who needs a different sense of spirituality, due to where they are at the moment, even if the best they can do is have faith in the dogmas of some religion or another.

Maybe I am wrong, I can't really know from a few words in a forum, but it appears you are biased towards religious ideals. In my own experience, faith is a poor excuse for knowing for yourself, spirituality will give you that, in time, but faith can certainly be a good starting point. In my opinion, religion based on faith alone is for the blind who won't grow enough spiritually to know for themselves, or can, but need a starting point. Albeit, I will agree many require religion because they can't seem get there on their own.

Religion can be far from all bad, but it can also turn evil and be used for power instead of pointing to a heaven within, pointing outward to find God through their own organizations too much of the time, or hides the fact you don't need religion at all. Spirituality is an inner experience, you can draw from many outside sources such as religion, but it only ignites within, that's where it becomes meaningful and without the encumberments of dogmas. As long as you are stuck associating spirituality with a religion, you are stuck in that religion. If you think you can't be spiritual without religion, or grow beyond what religions teach, that is as far as you will grow for awhile.

You can have better than faith, you can find something greater than faith on your own through your own innate spirituality, you can't be conscious without having it, buried though it may appear to be.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

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Old 11-15-2014, 05:34 PM #3579
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by USAbro View Post
So you not atheist, your agnostic?
No. I could be labeled agnostic/atheist though. I'll explain quickly. Agnostic is a position regarding knowledge while atheism is a position regarding the God claim specifically . You either accept it or reject it. Acceptance would be the position of theists while rejection atheist. A misunderstanding of atheism is that its the position that states "there are no Gods" which isnt exactly true to the definition although some atheist may feel this way. There are no Gods is a statement of knowledge.

I could be considered agnostic/atheist because I reject the God claim for lack of evidence or sound argument yet do not claim to KNOW there are no Gods. I may be 99% sure there are no Gods but because of things like hard solipsism absolute certainty is so limited in our reality so the most accurate position is agnosticism. I dont know. This is why science deals in probabilities and not absolute certainty.
Knowledge is defined as justified true belief so therefore its impossible for a person to know the existence of God. They may believe it but because that belief is faith based it is unjustified and could not be considered knowing or knowledge. Faith is defined as the belief in something without evidence therefore makes atheism the default position as said earlier and why I feel its not me that should have to carry a label.

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Old 11-15-2014, 05:45 PM #3580
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

While I posted earlier I sometimes ponder we are not supposed to directly know God, that it's existence is purposely inexplicable to us, at the same time, from what I can tell, we are made from the very same fabric, at our very base... through that, there is a connection and with that connection, you can know some things for yourself, if you are spiritual enough.

Do I think we are required to do or be anything, much less believe in "God". Hell no, I don't think so. None of that is required of us, IMHO, but I also think what we do matters to and for us, what we can become, if we can find love for one another. I don't believe there is a God out there wanting anyone to worship it, or some big thing that created the universe that is on such an ego trip.

I sometimes get impatient with hard core religious types but equally hard core atheists who also claim to know far more than they can prove or for that matter, disprove. Both wearing their own blinders of choice to limit their field of view, often wanting others to put them on too, join their clubs. I say you don't need to believe in God any more than you don't need to disbelieve in it... Just be, grow, learn, treat one another right and try to find love... anything else is a bonus. In the end I think we will get where we are ultimately going anyway, belief or disbelief, mere faith or not.

The main thing in life is to have experiences, the way the universe works will do the rest... but try to be kind, in most cases being kind is more important than being right when it comes to relationships.

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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Last edited by Alaskan; 11-16-2014 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 11-16-2014, 12:25 AM #3581
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Thumbs up Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
...
IF there be a God I think such has little to do with religion and lives in the silence between all thought and word.
...
+1 this
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:25 PM #3582
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
Your ability to base all I understand on a few words posted in a forum is equally amusing to me
I can only work with what you give me. It's not my fault if you're a bad communicator.
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Old 11-18-2014, 04:35 AM #3583
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

OK, I'm a bad communicator, if that settles it, it works for me too.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 11-21-2014, 06:06 PM #3584
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



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