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Old 09-01-2014, 06:43 AM #3521
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Question. Given what we now know, with reference to how big the universe is, and our minuscule size in it, why do all of the religious texts gloss over everything else out there?
Because we as human beings like to think that were the most important things in existance, and that if there was a god that created our universe, in all 48 billion lightyears of it, it would give half a care about what we do.


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Old 09-01-2014, 07:16 AM #3522
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Blarg King View Post
Because we as human beings like to think that were the most important things in existance, and that if there was a god that created our universe, in all 48 billion lightyears of it, it would give half a care about what we do.
That would be the rational explanation. I'd like to know the religious one.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:24 PM #3523
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'm an atheist in my heart. I don't beleive in a god.
My mom is a muslim and me and my sister haven't been to a mosque until last year because I don't know, we were busy with other things and it was too far.
I guess I never had that sense and a relationship with faith...
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:25 AM #3524
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

LOL, funny postings in this thread. For myself, I like spirituality but religion, not so much. You don't have to be spiritual to be religious, nor religious to be spiritual. For myself, I find more value in a different kind of understanding which doesn't need to have belief in "God" but nor does it necessarily exclude the concept either. To explain some of it, I view each and every one of us as part of the same thing exploring life in parallel, past, present and future to come.
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:41 PM #3525
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
I like spirituality
Many people say this. I don't think it has a consistent definition though. What does it mean to you?
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Old 09-07-2014, 06:06 PM #3526
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

What a lot of "believers" don't seem to understand is that the scientific explanation cannot be boiled down to "oh it all just happened by chance". No one with a brain is saying everything just magically lined up and chance had it that we are here today.

I watch The Amazing Atheist sometimes on YouTube, usually in small chunks as I find him quite a handful to watch, but boy does he have a way with words. The following video addresses the "chance" theory many religious people retort with, and also addresses evolution.

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Old 09-08-2014, 11:26 AM #3527
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Many people say this. I don't think it has a consistent definition though. What does it mean to you?
To me it is the connection between all life forms we each have, being spiritual is realizing it and can be so much more too. I don't know if I can give a single sentence answer to what it means to me, nor a paragraph or pages for that matter. One thing I know for certain, belief itself in such things is a poor excuse for experience, belief is OK, but it is soooo pale to direct experience, which I have had. At least, tongue in cheek, that is what I believe.
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"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 09-08-2014, 03:09 PM #3528
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

This thread has been an interesting read. I think I've only ever witnessed a single productive debate about religion. I've never seen either "side" convince anyone that their position is correct, but this particular debate was about the question of whether it is reasonable to believe in a deity. The conclusion (based on the collective response of those who watched the debate) was that it is not unreasonable to believe in a deity - which was quite a concession from the atheist in my opinion. My experience has been that atheists are just as religious as God believers, with each convinced that they have a moral obligation to convince the other of their stupidity. Why is everyone so "religious" about their belief system? Is it because the slow and selective processes at work in the universe favor a species with this type of behavior? Or are we all compelled by some higher intelligence to behave that way as a matter of design? It is indeed interesting that it can be enjoyable to ponder such questions. I'd just like to say - thank God for the big bang and evolution (or whatever else we determine through faith, the scientific method, or free thought) that has gotten us here and able to do just that. Cheers!
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Old 09-08-2014, 07:12 PM #3529
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Deity? An individual to be called God who made all of mankind and life on Earth? I don't think such exists, if it did, because the universe is such a big place, it would be a god with a little g, although fully warranted the title "god" or perhaps gods if another civilization had created us through gene splicing of the existing life on earth to create man. For a "God" with a big G, I think of it as being much more than any single individual could ever be and in that way, contrary to most religions except perhaps Buddhism in some ways.

The closest thing I can express as God is perhaps a Omniscient= All Knowing, Omnipotent= Existing Everywhere at Once field of intelligence within and behind all things which influences the progression of life as a great attractor towards more complexity. God knows, for the most part matter is going the other direction through entropy, but life cheats it. We pay a price for that cheat, death of the individual but genetics allows us to becoming more complex as a species over time.

I left out Omnipotent= All-Powerful because I think the universe allows us to do what the hell we want as individuals in this place, whether that be constructive or destructive, there is no "God" with a big G as an individual which will prevent us from doing what we will. Maybe some gods, but in the big picture I think we are completely free to do as we will to the limit of our capabilities, allowed to do so, as we can. Maybe it is all-powerful but chooses to give us complete freedom of choice? After all, what would we be without it? Mere machines, I think.

Does God exist? I think so, but not in the concept of most religions, perhaps what it really is far from our ability to conceive much about it, something bigger and better than any single being could be, not some powerful deity who created mankind only to send us to hell if we don't accept or worship it. To me, such a being would not be worthy of worship. That said, it doesn't mean we can't create our own hells from going the wrong direction too.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

Last edited by Alaskan; 09-08-2014 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 09-08-2014, 11:36 PM #3530
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
To me it is the connection between all life forms we each have
Even the mosquitoes, roundworms, tsetse flies, tapeworms, ticks, ringworms, liver flukes, guinea worms, human botflies, fleas, lice, and bedbugs? Any idea how I would go about severing those connections?

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Originally Posted by Laser Project View Post
direct experience, which I have had.
Hundreds of people have had "direct experience" with the ghost of elvis.
Millions of people have had "direct experience" with aliens.
Billions of people have had divine personal revelation not only contradictory to your god, but contradictory to each others' god contradictory to yours.

If we are to believe your personal revelation, we must believe all personal revelation, but since those revelations contradict each other, the whole thing falls apart. Unverifiable personal experience may be sufficient reason for you to believe what you do, just don't expect us to take your word for it.
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Old 09-09-2014, 12:50 AM #3531
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I don't expect as I don't take anyone else's word for their own experiences either, yet I sometimes enjoy reading them. Belief is a poor substitute for direct experience and that is a slippy slope in itself, any direct "experience" is, after all, founded upon belief any way you cut it, believing what you experience to be real is still the same thing. As you well understand, we each recreate the world we experience within us using limited senses as well as limited intellect to be able to fully fathom what is really going on.

From that, our world views are all illusions of self, based on something real of course, but how we view it will never quite be what we are trying to understand, we are too limited to fully understand the world around us from macro to micro to be able to honestly say we "know" reality. Although, we are obviously very good at reproducing accurate enough models of our universe within our knoggins to a lessor or greater degree between us, if we couldn't we wouldn't have computers, cars or rocket ships. Still, with all our science the best we can do is approximate most of our reality, each of us living in a different one from small to large degree, due to the need to map the external world within, each unique from our own perspective, individuality forcing that on us.

Regarding my own thoughts and beliefs, although I offer them to everyone when posting such statements here, I am really trying to reach out and share with those who already understand, those who don't see some of the things I think are real need not believe how I do, even in regard to a God or no God, especially that. I honestly don't think it matters in the long run what we think from day to day, or year to year in regard to such. I believe we are set loose upon the world to become what we will, that is all.

The larger value of communication, for myself, is understanding your thoughts, not my trying to have someone to understand mine, yet I still offer a point of view but it is good to share when we can.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

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Old 09-09-2014, 05:35 PM #3532
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Lets just say for a moment that there is a "god" (which I don't believe). Would a being that powerful really give a crap about what we do? Would a being that powerful even recognize us for what we are? Or would we appear to it the way bacteria appears to us?

Have your faith if you want to, but don't pass judgement or try and control people through it.
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:31 PM #3533
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I really don't think there is a "God" in the way most religions teach, unless, we are in some kind of virtual reality, then who ever made the machine is the God but as far as looking at our individual lives and judging us, I think not.

An interesting youtube compilation on the virtual reality theory, some parts sketchy, some solid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p-r58dMQFY - The first few seconds seem kind of hokey, but once past that fairly good, although there is a part I had to skip, couldn't take much of him today, right as he often is.
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"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 09-09-2014, 10:11 PM #3534
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrowBar View Post
I've never seen either "side" convince anyone that their position is correct,
Personally I feel that science has done that rather well, so I feel no need to waste my breath trying to convince when science has already done it. If people want to be blind to that, they certainly aren't going to listen to me.

Believing in the god over the scientific explanation is often a get out clause because people don't understand (and don't want to understand) the science behind it. To them it's all too complicated and couldn't have just "magically happened" (which as I have already explained is another bunk theory) so bam, god. That's how these people reconcile their thoughts, but the whole "god" theory is just as illogical as their false idea about the science they're condemning, so although self fulfilling it's equally as short sighted.
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Old 09-10-2014, 01:19 AM #3535
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Scientists today are the new high priests for society, but leading edge scientists are now turning metaphysical when they understand the implications of leading edge science today. Today, we are coming to the understanding that consciousness is primary in the universe, matter secondary. To me, that is a spiritual statement but one which does not need a God figure behind it, something much bigger is behind it, much bigger than the universe as it now appears there are multiple universes. However, there is much room for debate as we are talking theory on that one, of course.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:04 PM #3536
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