Old 02-28-2014, 05:42 AM #3441
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Javalin View Post
But accepting God as your creator and Jesus as your savior you are saved from hell.
So you think all Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and atheists will burn in eternal hellfire regardless of how gentle and selfless they are. Is that healthy? To think that of your fellow man?


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Old 02-28-2014, 03:00 PM #3442
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'd really like to talk through this to the best of my knowledge. I'm definitely no expert on the matter but any questions that stump me or anything I'm unsure of I will get a good answer for you. But please let's keep this civil as I respect your opinions, please respect mine. Having said that:

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Originally Posted by Shakenawake View Post
I take the bible as a whole. it says that even if one has never lied, stolen, killed, etc, (which I grant that most people have, but it is possible for someone to not have done these.) they are still damned by this original sin. also, these are all finite crimes. why is infinite punishment for finite crimes OK morally? no matter how much good you do in your life, one white lie and no accepting of Christ and its off to the lake of fire with thee. though my reading tells me that even without a single sin of your own we are doomed because of Adam. cant keep changing the rules, moving the goalpost on us

what about all the people in history who were presumably descended from Adam, then later settled in the Americas pre-Columbus. their people died for thousands of years without ever hearing about christ, yet they were all sinners. they are all doomed to hell just because they had no access to "the good book" and it's message and gift of salvation?
The Old Testament in the bible was a different time for sure. Under God's Law I don't think too many people made it to heaven. It is 100% impossible for a human to have NEVER sinned. Jesus was the only man to have lived a perfect life, and he was God in the flesh. God saw that we couldn't live perfect lives, so he sent his son Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. So no, one white lie, one stolen thing, those will not exclude you from heaven. But not accepting God and Jesus will.

I don't think God ever moved the goalpost backwards, in fact he has moved it closer, more in reach. That's the difference between living under his law (before Jesus) and under his grace (after Jesus).

I don't want to say yes they were doomed, I'll have to ask the questions myself as I know children and mentally handicapped people will still go to heaven if they couldn't comprehend, I'm not sure how or if that would translate to someone who never heard about them. I do know though that this is why God tells us to spread the message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
So you think all Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and atheists will burn in eternal hellfire regardless of how gentle and selfless they are. Is that healthy? To think that of your fellow man?
I do think that's what happens. To answer your questions about whether or not it's healthy I thought of it this way:

You are in your car on a desolate, deserted road and you see a young kid riding a motorcycle as fast as he can with no helmet. Your significant other is with you and you turn and say, "He's going to get himself killed" You pull next to him at the only stoplight for miles and tell him that if he doesn't stop driving so fast he's going to die. The next morning you see his mangled bike on the news. You don't smirk and get a smug look turning to your significant other and say, "See look there, Told ya so."

You told him to slow down not because you were better than he was, not because you were smarter or because you wanted to ruin his fun. You said it because you cared. Because you loved him enough to express your concern. But you couldn't make him stop what he was doing, you couldn't change the course of his life or how he died. That was his decision, and the next morning you were probably upset because despite anything that you could have told him, the choice was his.
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Old 02-28-2014, 04:56 PM #3443
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



I guess god didn't get the memo.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:55 PM #3444
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

There has to be a lack of... creativity.

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Old 02-28-2014, 09:53 PM #3445
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Raptor jesus lmao

I believe in almighty Loc Nar
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:36 PM #3446
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Javalin View Post
you see a young kid riding a motorcycle as fast as he can with no helmet...
Your analogy has fallen apart already. There is EVIDENCE that helmets save lives.

It's more like trying to put tinfoil hats on everyone because you think the government is reading your thoughts. Sure you could argue you're "looking out for their safety," but you just end up looking psychotic to most of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javalin View Post
not accepting God and Jesus will [send you to hell]
Why is that a suitable punishment?

You're familiar with infinity, and basic math associated with it, yes? For example
∞/999999999999999999999999999999=∞

Consider this: even the atrocities of Hitler were finite. To punish someone infinately is infinitely disproportionate to even the actions of hitler. Say a guy doesn't hold the door for you in a crowded shopping mall, so you rip out his fingernails, torture his parents in front of him, then behead him with a fork. What you have just done does NOT EVEN COMPARE with the disproportionate punishments and "justice" of your god.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:31 AM #3447
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Satan's original problem, that he disagreed with god?

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Old 03-03-2014, 02:14 PM #3448
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
Your analogy has fallen apart already. There is EVIDENCE that helmets save lives.

It's more like trying to put tinfoil hats on everyone because you think the government is reading your thoughts. Sure you could argue you're "looking out for their safety," but you just end up looking psychotic to most of us.



Why is that a suitable punishment?

You're familiar with infinity, and basic math associated with it, yes? For example
∞/999999999999999999999999999999=∞

Consider this: even the atrocities of Hitler were finite. To punish someone infinately is infinitely disproportionate to even the actions of hitler. Say a guy doesn't hold the door for you in a crowded shopping mall, so you rip out his fingernails, torture his parents in front of him, then behead him with a fork. What you have just done does NOT EVEN COMPARE with the disproportionate punishments and "justice" of your god.
Okay, the whole helmet thing aside, because the analogy would work even if he was wearing a helmet, heck, he wouldn't even have to be speeding, or even on a motorcycle. My point wasn't what he was doing it was the concern for his life and the basis for WHY you would want to say something to him. But I guess that point was missed...

You say that the punishment is disproportionate, but that isn't my call. Maybe a way to think of it is like this. Heaven is God's kingdom. It's his house. His domain. If you do not show love for him (Or even acknowledge his existence) Why then would he (or should he) want you in his home with all of his friends? The idea here is that he wants to love you, all you have to do is let him. You gave the example of Hitler, but the "punishment" is not for the things you do. There are a lot of "good" people that do not make it to heaven.

I don't want to turn this thread into something that gets shut down. I'd like to answer any questions you might have, but you have to realize that I don't have definite proof of God's existence, as you do not have proof that he doesn't.

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The story with Satan is basically this: Satan was supposedly very beautiful but he had a bit of an ego problem. He eventually thought that he should be the highest power in heaven. He thought he was as good as (or better than) God himself.

As you can imagine this didn't sit well with God, so he cast him out of heaven. There's a lot a back story that, to be honest, I don't have the schooling to verify if it is fact or not.

If you are still curious let me know and I'll do some reading and give you my personal interpretation. (I've got a migraine, otherwise I would do it now)
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:23 PM #3449
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

the burden of proof rests on the one making the claim. If I said, "leprechauns exist", and someone said to me, "no they don't." wouldn't it sound absurd for me to say, "you can't prove they don't exist"

right now I cant decide if the one true god is the flying spagetti moster (ramen!) or the I.P.U.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:46 PM #3450
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Hey, you leave the FSU out of this! You can't prove he isn't really out there
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:12 AM #3451
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Javalin View Post
Maybe a way to think of it is like this. Heaven is God's kingdom. It's his house. His domain. If you do not show love for him (Or even acknowledge his existence) Why then would he (or should he) want you in his home with all of his friends?
That would be a valid analogy if there was proof that he existed. It's more like he takes a 20 century vacation, never showing himself, never interfering, then when people start to doubt his existence, god shows indifference at the literally unimaginable amount of suffering that happens. Dick move.
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:48 PM #3452
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I strongly believe that church "services" use known brainwashing (hypnotism) techniques on their congregation.

CONVERSION is a "nice" word for BRAINWASHING and any study of
brainwashing has to begin with a study of Christian revivalism in eighteenth
century America. Apparently, Jonathan Edwards accidentally discovered the
techniques during a religious crusade in 1735 in Northampton, Massachusetts. By
inducing guilt and acute apprehension and by increasing the tension, the
"sinners" attending his revival meetings would break down and completely submit.
Technically, what Edwards was doing was creating conditions that wipe the brain
slate clean so that the mind accepts new programming. The problem was that the
new input was negative. He would tell them, "You're a sinner! You're destined
for hell!"

source:
THE BATTLE FOR YOUR MIND, by Dick Sutphen
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Old 03-08-2014, 03:51 PM #3453
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Lets pretend for a moment that there is a god, and it did indeed create the universe. Do you honestly think that in all 48 Billion light years of the universe it would really give a care about what we do? The universe is massive, who's to say that we're the only living things in it, and that somehow we're more important? Its pretty presumptuous.

And I think any entity capable of creating a universe, and populating it with beings of free will wouldn't care what we did. I would imagine any god watching humans go about their business would be like us watching ants. We observe them, and understand them at a basic level, but we don't condemn them for doing what they do (unless they invade our houses XD)

Also I just can't wrap my head around the whole afterlife thing. No matter how much you believe, there is absolutely 0 proof there is any life beyond this one, so why limit yourself in the life you do have?

I'll agree many of religion's base principles are good (don't kill, don't steal, etc) but I find it almost sad that some people would need the threat of eternal damnation to follow the guidelines of being a decent human being.

And you know what? Atheist shouldn't "burn for eternity". Atheists can be just as good people as anyone of faith (and sometimes exceed them). If there is a god, would it not make sense to judge your creations solely on their actions, and not weather they follow a man-made worshiping scheme? If I we're a god with the capability and intellect to create a universe, I would be understanding if my creations we're doubtful of my existence if I had never done anything to show them I exist.


So yeah, theres my 2 cents on this whole thing. Enjoy.
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Old 03-10-2014, 02:53 PM #3454
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 03-14-2014, 04:17 AM #3455
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Default Re: LPF's Religion







Obviously these are generalizations, but it would be easy to conclude that as people become more secure (wealthy/higher GDP) and better educated morality becomes less and less intertwined with religion.

It's also interesting to see the differences in age groups.

Religion is losing ground.

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Old 03-24-2014, 04:51 PM #3456
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