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Old 08-13-2013, 05:07 PM #3073
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

That our comprehension is limited is an interesting point Duke. I once had an Anatomy teacher in Art School. She told us one day that she began to believe in God after years of studying Anatomy and the Human body. In her opinion, it was too complex and beautiful to be the result of random chance.

Intuition, can sometimes facilitate science and understanding. Eureka moments. But different realities rarely mix well You risk ending up living in a fantasy, separate from the rest of the world. "Persecuted for Righteousness Sake." I wonder sometimes

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Old 08-13-2013, 05:17 PM #3074
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
1. "Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence" is a simple statement of truth, you may apply it in whatever ridiculous way you wish but to deny it's true is pulling a blanket over your head.

2. I've tried to explain that in earlier posts.

3. I have seriously contemplated the possibility on my own, and have been open to discussion on it this whole time, you seem to get very defensive and rude at the idea of god existing.
1. Please go re-read what I wrote. What makes your proposition for the existence of god anymore valid than anyone elses, for any other preposterous idea, if you cannot disprove it? Can you prove that Santa isn't real? I mean can you REALLY prove it?

2. You've failed to offer any insight beyond just faith.

3. I highly doubt this... it completely contradicts what you said earlier "so what it would take to turn me isn't even something I could fathom."

Which is it?

For me, what would it take to make me believe in god? It would take a miracle. For example, if overnight, every person with severe heart diseases, mental illness, and cancer inexplicably just got better.

Or how about god smiting a few truly evil people?

Also I am defensive, because if there is a just and caring god... where has he been the last few thousand years, and just look at the harm religion has caused, or has been used to excuse.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:17 PM #3075
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Are either of you absolutely sure that you have a full and complete understanding of these good/bad events, and that you can use them personally as 100% proof against god's existence?
More like there is not enough evidence for us to believe in him or worship him. If he showed up tomorrow and gave proof of himself, I might be more inclined to believe in him... or I might label him as a con man depending on what he was asking for in return.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Firstly, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
humanity killed god's one and only son, I wouldn't expect things to be the same as they were before the crucifiction.
Firstly, god knew full well what would happen since day one, and still allowed his son on earth. It's his fault. ANALOGY ALERT: would you blame a zoo tiger if it ate a rabbit you threw into its enclosure?

Secondly, he was brought back from the dead anyway and lives forever in heaven - no harm done - that's a pretty good deal for him. I've never understood why the resurrection story was a big deal.

Usually I would agree... if it was early in the game or if the data set was small. But if you perform an experiment billions of times over thousands of years and get no consistent results, THEN absence of evidence IS evidence of absence.

ANALOGY ALERT: I dare you to PROVE the easter bunny doesn't exist. Sure, there's no evidence, but surely "absence of evidence is not absence of evidence."

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
We are limited, what we know is far far from everything that is
And that is exactly why jumping to conclusions has been a bad idea for us as a species. If we work with what we know (science!), we get a technological revolution and a vastly improved quality (not to mention LENGTH) of life. If we work with Leviticus, we get the dark ages.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:22 PM #3076
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Lazerbeak View Post
That our comprehension is limited is an interesting point Duke. I once had an Anatomy teacher in Art School. She told us one day that she began to believe in God after years of studying Anatomy and the Human body. In her opinion, it was too complex and beautiful to be the result of random chance.
Did she convert to a specific religion?
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:24 PM #3077
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazerbeak View Post
That our comprehension is limited is an interesting point Duke. I once had an Anatomy teacher in Art School. She told us one day that she began to believe in God after years of studying Anatomy and the Human body. In her opinion, it was too complex and beautiful to be the result of random chance.

Intuition, can sometimes facilitate science and understanding. Eureka moments. But different realities rarely mix well You risk ending up living in a fantasy, separate from the rest of the world. "Persecuted for Righteousness Sake." I wonder sometimes

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Old 08-13-2013, 05:28 PM #3078
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
More like there is not enough evidence for us to believe in him or worship him. If he showed up tomorrow and gave proof of himself, I might be more inclined to believe in him... or I might label him as a con man depending on what he was asking for in return.





Firstly, god knew full well what would happen since day one, and still allowed his son on earth. It's his fault. ANALOGY ALERT: would you blame a zoo tiger if it ate a rabbit you threw into its enclosure?

Secondly, he was brought back from the dead anyway and lives forever in heaven - no harm done - that's a pretty good deal for him. I've never understood why the resurrection story was a big deal.

Usually I would agree... if it was early in the game or if the data set was small. But if you perform an experiment billions of times over thousands of years and get no consistent results, THEN absence of evidence IS evidence of absence.

ANALOGY ALERT: I dare you to PROVE the easter bunny doesn't exist. Sure, there's no evidence, but surely "absence of evidence is not absence of evidence."



And that is exactly why jumping to conclusions has been a bad idea for us as a species. If we work with what we know (science!), we get a technological revolution and a vastly improved quality (not to mention LENGTH) of life. If we work with Leviticus, we get the dark ages.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:31 PM #3079
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

A new study has shown that the brain cannot empathize and analyze at same time

Brain Can't Empathize And Analyze At Same Time

I was pondering the implications of this phenomenon with regard to the types of discussions we have here (and elsewhere)

If the brain is "busy" feeling, it is incapable of critical analysis
If the brain is "busy" analyzing, it is incapable of understanding feelings

It is not that people like Duke are not able to think critically in general
It is that while they are "feeling" and thinking about their relationship with a deity, their brain is incapable of critical thought

It is not that people like me are unfeeling or unable to empathize in general
It is that while critically analyzing the concept of a "personal relationship" with a "god' we are incapable of understanding what is being "felt" by the religious person

@ IE -- I know of no cure for the problem as long as our societies are so overcrowded.
The resources for what needs done, at the scale that it needs to be done, is not available
We are reaching the limits of our environment
"Something" will have to break

@ Duke -- How is my proclaiming that there is no god any more rude than your proclaiming that there is a god?
You appear to have begun to retreat into platitudes and sound bites again so I am going to leave you alone for a bit

What are anyone's thoughts on the implications of the "perpetual rivalry" of thought vs. feelings with regard to religious discussions?

Peace,
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:39 PM #3080
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
A new study has shown that the brain cannot empathize and analyze at same time

Brain Can't Empathize And Analyze At Same Time

I was pondering the implications of this phenomenon with regard to the types of discussions we have here (and elsewhere)

If the brain is "busy" feeling, it is incapable of critical analysis
If the brain is "busy" analyzing, it is incapable of understanding feelings

It is not that people like Duke are not able to think critically in general
It is that while they are "feeling" and thinking about their relationship with a deity, their brain is incapable of critical thought

It is not that people like me are unfeeling or unable to empathize in general
It is that while critically analyzing the concept of a "personal relationship" with a "god' we are incapable of understanding what is being "felt" by the religious person

@ IE -- I know of no cure for the problem as long as our societies are so overcrowded.
The money for what needs done, at the scale that it needs to be done, is not available
We are reaching the limits of our environment
"Something" will have to break

@ Duke -- How is my proclaiming that there is no god any more rude than your proclaiming that there is a god?

You appear to have begun to retreat into platitudes and sound bites again so I am going to leave you alone for a bit

What are anyone's thoughts on the implications of the "perpetual rivalry" of thought vs. feelings with regard to religious discussions?

Peace,
dave
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當局者迷 旁觀者清 : The stander-by sees more clearly than he who plays.

People in the end are emotionally driven beings and with emotions you have sides and with sides you have biased judgements.

That's why maths is our ONLY savior in this world.
Numbers never lies.
They don't take sides and they are not open ended.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:11 PM #3081
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You know, I've recently become somewhat addicted to a show... Kitchen Nightmares.

It's not particularly funny, or educational. In fact I can easily make fun of myself for watching it, and I know several of my friends irl would

What I find to be so interesting is that the changes implemented are all very common sense, and tend to be the same at every restaurant.

Given that people who apply to be on the show, have seen at least some episodes, what strikes me as amazing, is that people don't implement the ridiculously obvious changes themselves to begin with.

They are running complicated businesses. Usually they are not dumb, and yet they fail to see really blatantly obvious details.

How they respond when issues are presented to them... that's the reason I watch the show.

It seems to me in general, most people fall into a pattern, a rut, and they are completely unable to see outside of it barring rather extreme intervention.

What's scary to me is I try to take a step back and analyze my own life, and how to improve it, and I am often unable to do so, despite being reasonably intelligent.

So Dave I suspect it's more a question of how we're wired than anything else, that we are not able to perceive our own faults properly, building walls of rationalization, and willful ignorance, when we subconsciously just don't want to face the truth.

On the other issue, I fear you're right. While I've looked at models a while back that suggest a capacity for earth of 30 billion, I just can't see that actually happening. I hope you're wrong, but I do greatly fear you're right. Society as it exists now, is a horrible house of cards that's ready to collapse. I think the bigger question to be concerned about is whether the collapse will be a gradual striation and degradation of society, or much faster forced by some cataclysmic event. A truly monstrous tsunami, earthquake, supervolcano eruption, or just a few hurricanes of a scale we're not used to, would destroy society as we know it.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:44 PM #3082
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Old 08-13-2013, 06:45 PM #3083
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Infinitus, I don't know what specific religion she converted too, if any. I think she was Gay, so a whole nother discussion there I'm sure it was a fairly progressive church if she did. I watch Restaurant Impossible. Interesting point about people being to close to a problem. I always love watching the reveal at the end. Always makes me feel good

EpicHam, I am familiar with Fractals. I find them fascinating, and also see them used in the process of Life. The head is a reflection of the body. The reason acupressure and acupuncture work. Another professor told me he had a colleague who could recreate a persons face just by seeing a picture of their body.

Daguin, not making light of it, but it reminds me of the joke about the male brain and the penis not being able to be used at the same time. Rather interesting point. Explains the disconnect quite well. Buckminster Fuller showed in the 70's that we have enough energy resources. Land for cattle being converted to crops would solve a lot of issues. It is a matter of people not being able to work together. Politics, Religion, Cultural Differences, Inability to communicate. I think these are the major hurdles, not availability of resources. Education as well. I read once about a team of doctors sent into a rural village in Southeast Asia. They brought condoms to lower the rate of unwanted births. After many months they returned to find the rate of pregnancies hadn't dropped. It was then that they discovered the men had poked holes in their condoms so they could go pee

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Old 08-13-2013, 07:02 PM #3084
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I asked about a specific religion, because to me it seems that she started to believe in something bigger than herself, but not really a god as defined by christianity, or other common religions.

Loled at pocked condoms.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:16 PM #3085
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
I asked about a specific religion, because to me it seems that she started to believe in something bigger than herself, but not really a god as defined by christianity, or other common religions.

Loled at pocked condoms.
It seems like Spirituality is the "in" thing now. Want to believe in a higher power but without all the guilt?

The New Age Movement is pretty interesting. Angels and Spirit Guides mixed in with a dash of quasi-science and crystals. Not cheap by the way

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How To Get Along and Be Accepted at LPF ~ click here If you don't like to read.
How to safely lase by Sigurthr
Donate to LPF
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The 3 Furies ~ by Master Photon Wizard Daguin (blk C6 hosts w/ Mrcrouse FR)
Alecto 405nm
Tisiphone 445nm
Megaera 660nm
Gram (Wrath) 445nm ~ an SBA Lasers Custom Build (polished Kryton host 9mm 445nm)
Malice ~ an SBA Lasers Custom Build (Sinner MS-SSW host PL520)
MXDL host 56mw Fasttech green Pman custom build
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Gordon host 33mw Fasttech green Pman custom build
Dr. Evil & MiniMe (SL Twintask host 660nm Mrcrouse HS & FR - in dev)
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:42 PM #3086
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Organized, and for profit religion is never cheap... I mean just look scientology. They pump their believers dry.
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:13 PM #3087
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Yep. Ever heard of the Raelians? Attended a meeting in Canada years ago to do some research. Quite a scam. Recruiting women from the *** industry to lure men with money into the fold. ****** massage as part of their rituals. They are the one's protesting for women to have the right to go topless btw. Frightening how big they are getting.

Intelligent Design for Atheists

Their Leader Claude Maurice Marcel Vorilhon (born September 30, 1946, in Vichy, Allier, France) says his mother had *** with an Alien and he is a hybrid. His real family is quite embarrassed by him to say the least

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__________________
"There are monkey boys in the facility."
How To Get Along and Be Accepted at LPF ~ click here If you don't like to read.
How to safely lase by Sigurthr
Donate to LPF
"The Collection"
The 3 Furies ~ by Master Photon Wizard Daguin (blk C6 hosts w/ Mrcrouse FR)
Alecto 405nm
Tisiphone 445nm
Megaera 660nm
Gram (Wrath) 445nm ~ an SBA Lasers Custom Build (polished Kryton host 9mm 445nm)
Malice ~ an SBA Lasers Custom Build (Sinner MS-SSW host PL520)
MXDL host 56mw Fasttech green Pman custom build
B&D host "Dominator" 103mw Fastech green Pman custom build
Gordon host 33mw Fasttech green Pman custom build
Dr. Evil & MiniMe (SL Twintask host 660nm Mrcrouse HS & FR - in dev)
Daguin Mini Red
Deadeye Lasers Sirius 445nm Blue
AnselmoFanZero MLG-01 445nm Blue
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Old 08-13-2013, 08:23 PM #3088
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I can't believe there are people gullible enough to fall for such crap.

Although I can't really argue against beautiful women having the right to go topless
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