Old 08-12-2013, 04:22 PM #3041
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



Study Finds That Religious People Are Less Intelligent Than Atheists

Peace,
dave


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Old 08-12-2013, 05:49 PM #3042
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

That study rings true from my personal experience.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:12 PM #3043
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quick question to the atheists/everyone. When past wars and happenings that are generally blamed on religion are brought up. Is the logic behind that, "because people did these bad things, therefore Jesus cannot be the messiah and god cannot exist"?
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:25 PM #3044
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Quick question to the atheists/everyone. When past wars and happenings that are generally blamed on religion are brought up. Is the logic behind that, "because people did these bad things, therefore Jesus cannot be the messiah and god cannot exist"?
War is nothing but business.

It is great to sell weapons en masse.
But you cannot make new bullets if you don't shoot old ones.

The fact that millions of innocents get killed, and suffer unspeakable horrors all because of an imaginary value that is money, personal gain of few selected individuals who stumbled upon power, is the ultimate proof to me that there is absolutely no such thing as benevolent, all powerful entity.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:30 PM #3045
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Quick question to the atheists/everyone. When past wars and happenings that are generally blamed on religion are brought up. Is the logic behind that, "because people did these bad things, therefore Jesus cannot be the messiah and god cannot exist"?
As an atheist;

1. Whether I blame religion (christianity, islam, judaism, etc,.) for a war depends on the conflict in question. Crusades? Yes I blame christianity.

2. Since Jesus didn't save me... well he's certainly not a messiah. Nor have I seen any evidence of him saving others throughout my life. ( I think I would've remembered.)

3. The "logic" behind the argument is that, if you have a kind, and caring god, and yet said god does not do a damn thing to stop immense suffering... well the god is either not there, or he doesn't give a crap. Logic would dictate the former.

For anyone religious, a question... aren't you pissed the hell off?

I would be if I believed in a god, and he allowed this to go on:

Torture against Gay Teens in Russia - Please help end this now! - Imgur

On a lighter note...

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:00 PM #3046
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Quick question to the atheists/everyone. When past wars and happenings that are generally blamed on religion are brought up. Is the logic behind that, "because people did these bad things, therefore Jesus cannot be the messiah and god cannot exist"?
The problem is not limited to simply war
To try to limit the discussion to war alone limits the debate
Atheists do not blame "war" on god
People do both good and bad things
Sometimes the good and bad are done in spectacular ways

The problem lies in the question, "Where was god; before, during, and/or after the event?"

The logic is simple

No interventions, prohibitions, aftercare, and/or "undoing" of wars, disasters, pestilences, illnesses, injuries, etc. by some supernatural being = no caring god
An omniscient, omnipotent, "all loving" god could do any of the above loving actions, right?

This leads to the inescapable conclusions that god is either uncaring, unable, or non-existent.

The easiest argument is made from the non-existent conclusion, but would work equally well in either of the other two potentials as well.
Just substitute one of the other conclusions (uncaring or unable) for non-existent

No god = no jesus christ sent to "save" humanity

No jesus christ = no messiah to return or act

It is not that god is responsible for wars
It is that an imaginary being is incapable of making any concrete difference in the world.

The problems caused by the belief in these imaginary beings (including , but not limited to religiously justified wars) far outweigh the good done by the people enamored with the belief

Peace,
dave

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:12 PM #3047
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

If more religions both preached and practised this, perhaps atheism wouldn't be eroding the ranks quite so quickly;

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:16 PM #3048
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.
- Einstein

Are either of you absolutely sure that you have a full and complete understanding of these good/bad events, and that you can use them personally as 100% proof against god's existence?

Reference to Einstein quotes on spirituality.
Albert Einstein Quotes on Spirituality
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:24 PM #3049
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
- Einstein

Are either of you absolutely sure that you have a full and complete understanding of these good/bad events, and that you can use them personally as 100% proof against god's existence?

Reference to Einstein quotes on spirituality.
Albert Einstein Quotes on Spirituality
I don't need to use them as proof against god's existence.

You are making the claim god exists so the burden of proof lies with you.

You postulate there is a god. Then answer the following;

Where is god?
What is god doing?
Has god done anything for you?
Do you have proof that it was god doing it?
Does god interact in any way with you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Einstein
The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:40 PM #3050
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Firstly, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Quote:
Are either of you absolutely sure that you have a full and complete understanding of these good/bad events, and that you can use them personally as 100% proof against god's existence?
I'm not trying to push anything on you or prove anything to you. If you would focus more on the original question please.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:53 PM #3051
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Firstly, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.
It's precisely what it is. Where else except in this discussion would you seriously contemplate accepting the answer "You can't prove that I'm wrong therefore I must be right." ?

For example, would you like to buy a 10 gigawatt handled laser from me?

Works perfectly. Only $500.

One caveat. It emits in a portion of the electromagnetic spectrum that cannot be detected by any means available to you.

We have a deal? I'll PM you my paypal email ASAP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1
you have a full and complete understanding of these good/bad events, and that you can use them personally as 100% proof against god's existence?
What exactly would you accept as 100% proof of god's non existence?

If you ask me how you can prove to me that god exists, I can give you an answer. I can give you lots of examples.

Can you do the same?

Can you produce 100% proof for the existence of god?

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:30 PM #3052
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I can't remember if I posted this or not. sorry if I did:

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:56 PM #3053
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

It is impossible to prove that something doesn't exist
That's what "mystery" is all about
It is impossible to prove something as silly as there are no people living in the interior of our planet

It is possible to prove that something exists
We can prove that there are creatures living at the deep ocean vents that derive all their sustenance from chemical reaction with the vent
There is no proof of the existence of "any" god beyond what is possible by man alone (or other "natural" processes)
The claim for existence is the churchs'
The proof of that existence must come from them

If one believes in the bible, the "god" of the bible was apparently VERY active in the world BEFORE humans developed the ability to record such events

That same god has been conspicuously inactive since we have been able to record any actions taken by him.

IIRC, the "activity" of said god actually ceased rather rapidly after the ascension of Christ
There have been sporadic "miracles" performed by people destined to become saints in the mean time, but even those have stopped with the advent of the camera and VCR

Peace,
dave

**EDIT** -- There must be something in the air right now
Religious Family Abandons the US: Gets Lost at Sea

To stand by and declare that one's god is good while these atrocities are happening is the epitome of naivete.
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Last edited by daguin; 08-13-2013 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:09 AM #3054
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@ IE

No it isn't, and that's not even a religiously derived argument. Just because you cannot see it doesn't mean it isn't there. People had no way of proving atoms existed, but they saw evidence, searched, and found them.

And for proving god doesn't exist? I know he does, so what it would take to turn me isn't even something I could fathom.

@ daguin

Einstein has said it better than I can.

"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books—-a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects."

We are limited, what we know is far far from everything that is

"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift."

An atheist society is what we are creating. Also humanity killed god's one and only son, I wouldn't expect things to be the same as they were before the crucifiction.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:21 AM #3055
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
@ IE

No it isn't, and that's not even a religiously derived argument. Just because you cannot see it doesn't mean it isn't there. People had no way of proving atoms existed, but they saw evidence, searched, and found them.


And for proving god doesn't exist? I know he does, so what it would take to turn me isn't even something I could fathom.
1. You're right. It's not a religiously derived argument. It's a rational, logical argument.

Or can you prove to me that 3 headed aliens aliens in cloaked ships aren't circling our planet, and watching us as part of their own version of animal planet?

Well? Can you prove it?

If not, than why is your proposition that there is a god anymore valid than my proposition about aliens?


2. What exactly is your basis for that belief?

3. So you're cannot entertain the possibility that there is no god even as part of a discussion? Or answer the same exact question that you are ready to lob away as proof of your deity's existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
An atheist society is what we are creating. Also humanity killed god's one and only son, I wouldn't expect things to be the same as they were before the crucifiction.
Would an atheist society be so bad? Clearly a religious society isn't working out too well.

Also... and correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we all "god's children"? If not, are we Satan's children?
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:52 AM #3056
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Sorry to interject Gentlemen

I think the disconnect or fear is this. To a Christian which America is and has been for quite a while. God is Love and Truth. This is true for most Religions I believe. When they hear the President say "...and God Bless the United States of America. The feeling is one of comfort and reassurance. Soldiers tend to be very Religious in their way too.

Working for the common good of the whole. Survival is ingrained in all higher orders of Life as Daguin pointed out If I'm not mistaken. This is perhaps easier for the "Star Trek", "Star Wars" Generation to understand without the trappings of "Religion" or "God" in the traditional sense.

The thought of being "Right", "Knowing" what the right choice is, having a benevolent Being of "Pure Love" watching over you is reassuring, especially during troubled times.

Sorry, my two cents

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