Old 07-25-2013, 09:30 PM #2881
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

This is perhaps a strange analogy, but. I once knew a Grand Master. His line was one of the first to incorporate Mixed Martial Arts into their forms. While it is commonplace now, back in the day it was highly frowned upon. Bruce Lee was supposedly killed for sharing this arcane knowledge with the Western world.

In Vietnam and in practical combat, he and others discovered that many of the traditional forms were not practical and in fact were getting people hurt. Why?

After much research, one example was from Karate. It was originated in Okinawa not Japan as a way for the natives to defend themselves against their oppressors since weapons were outlawed. The Emperor of Japan kidnapped the creator of Karate and his family and basically forced him to teach the technique to his military.

They had his family and would kill them if he refused. What was he to do? He lowered the stance so movements would be telegraphed. He placed weapons in awkward positions to delay movements. He sabotaged the forms to give his students the upper hand in a battle.

Traditional Martial Artists were so dogmatic about "Tradition" that no amount of convincing would convince them their forms or beliefs were flawed.

I look at religion in a similar fashion. Not the goodness and compassion in individuals so much as how people can become so adamant in their "beliefs" that they leave reason behind.

Sorry for the rant and the somewhat off-topic post

~ LB


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Old 07-25-2013, 09:35 PM #2882
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Not offended Dave, didn't mean to come across that way.

If the point is "taking ANY single (or very limited) source(s) and deciding "Truth" based on that limited knowledge is invalid"

Then why does it say bible, if it had said single world view the point would have been much more clear.
Because I didn't draw it

I am a wordsmith NOT a graphic artist

I cannot speak for the artist, but I *suspect* that it says bible because it was drawn by someone from the US or some other place where the bible is the prominent religious text and they speak English.

Artists can only work with what they know.

I believe that if it was drawn by an artist from Vietnam then it would have said "Shruti" and the other words would have been in Vietnamese.

Your reaction herein illustrates the problem with limiting the knowledge base.

Also, what does the phrase "taking a jab at" connote to you if not a defensive reaction to some offense?

Peace,
dave
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Old 07-25-2013, 09:54 PM #2883
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Your reaction herein illustrates the problem with limiting the knowledge base.
Well now your the one drawing conclusions.

Quote:
Also, what does the phrase "taking a jab at" connote to you if not a defensive reaction to some offense?
It's simply a description of an observation I made within the context of this thread.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:17 PM #2884
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Well now your the one drawing conclusions.

It's simply a description of an observation I made within the context of this thread.
Yes, I am drawing conclusions. I'm not afraid to admit it.

If I did not draw conclusions, based on information, what purpose would conversation serve?

I didn't ask what you read

I asked what the phrase "meant" to you (even with the qualifier of "within the context of this thread")

What does being "jabbed at" mean to you?

You used it. It must have some meaning to you.

Peace,
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:34 PM #2885
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
Same here, Leo.

I will help out people asking for my help, not because I expect something in return from them, like monetary compensation or promise of some imaginary "heaven" or whatever. I will help because I will feel good about myself afterwards.

If you do not feel good about yourself when helping out somebody, instead requiring absolute gain, you have far greater problems in your life than religion.
Good to know we share the same point of view...

offtopic: Damnit. I need to learn proper english so I can express myself better. So much to talk but I can't!
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Old 07-26-2013, 12:57 AM #2886
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
It's under the belief there is more to a person than what you can see, that an individual has a "spirit", that will exist beyond our bodies passing away and acknowledging that we were created or that our creation was set in motion by the "creator" to make us. Ultimately the process is cultivating that spiritual side to grow closer to him. I'm sure you've hear the "be still and know that I am here" and "God is love" thing.
That clarified nothing for me. How does one cultivate a spirit? Define "closer" in this context. If all it takes to "develop a relationship" with someone is to be like them, then I've got at least several thousand friends I've never even met.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
it's a misconception that religion and knowledge can't mix.
Would you say it's a misconception that argon is nonreactive? Sure it reacts in certain cases at certain times, but generally speaking...
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:15 AM #2887
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Default Re: LPF's Religion


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Old 07-26-2013, 01:22 AM #2888
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@ daguin

You know what I meant, and I'm really not inclined to play into your word games I'm still a bit offput by this statement-

Quote:
Your reaction herein illustrates the problem with limiting the knowledge base.
"I conclude" that your saying my knowledge base is poor, which if true is wrong you don't know me very well, if not then my apologies.

@ Cyparagon

If its something you're actually interested in trying to do, my advice would be to start attending a contemporary Christian church, attend bible studies, and really become active in fellowship and seeking out answers. I'm referring to church as the group of people themselves not the building itself. Otherwise it's a deep subject not something I feel confident trying to explain on a message board, especially when I feel like I'm being grilled.

And I'm not a big fan of analogies to make a point so I'll just answer that literally... no.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:24 AM #2889
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post


I liked that one.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:36 AM #2890
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
If its something you're actually interested in trying to do...
No. I'm asking you to explain your relationship.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:04 AM #2891
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Do you honestly care? You seem pretty set in your beliefs.
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:53 AM #2892
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Old 07-26-2013, 04:24 PM #2893
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:12 PM #2894
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Do you honestly care? You seem pretty set in your beliefs.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:17 PM #2895
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@ TheDukeAnumber1

You support your position repeatedly by using one source almost exclusively
You immediately take a defensive position to protect "a text" from attack
-- not your religion; not your beliefs; not you as a person; a text
You are either unaware or unwilling to consider the underlying message of art
When asked for clarifications, you shift into evasive maneuvers

Those things illustrate a limited knowledge or experience base

It is not a "word game"
It is called "perception checking"
It is used to help understand meaning
I do not wish to assume I "know" what you were thinking, so I ask for clarification

You also seem to believe that these conversations are about changing you
For me, at least, they aren't
You are a believer
You *want* to believe
I believe you have that right as long as you are not hurting yourself or others

These conversations are for the people reading them that are still searching for truth
Yours are the arguments that they are going to hear in their places of worship or when confronted by "witnesses"

Peace,
dave
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Last edited by daguin; 07-26-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:13 PM #2896
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”
- Aristotle
The relationship is experienced through people, events, and the holy spirit. I've seen god act through others lives as well as mine and when we are together and you can see him working through a group of people you feel close to god. An example of an event would be seeing needs met in an extra ordinary or even ordinary ways can be seen as him providing, I'd include this in with admiring nature and creation, being a part of this is part of the relationship. And the holy spirit would be noticing god moving in yourself that's beyond mind and emotion, being strong through hardships and temptation to tempter your character and learn to discern his will, this is the personally communicative part of the relationship

I'm more of a technical writer than a "wordsmith", that's the best I have atm to describe it.

@ Daguin

You're really stretching things about my intentions here. This is an interesting and neat threat, I like it, but let's be honest a lot of it focuses on taking a dump on Christianity. Which is fine, that's your right and some even have pretty valid points with the problems in Christianity and religion as a whole.

I am a believer, so I came in here just to me the guy on the other side of the table and discuss, not to flame.

Quote:
You support your position repeatedly by using one source almost exclusively
You immediately take a defensive position to protect "a text" from attack
-- not your religion; not your beliefs; not you as a person; a text
You are either unaware or unwilling to consider the underlying message of art
When asked for clarifications, you shift into evasive maneuvers
I felt I was discussing at first not being defensive until you started grilling me. If my faith is being discussed, I'm going to reference my experience and the bible, those are the main sources I'm going to reference since it's on topic, I don't have a limited knowledge base.

I understand the underlying message you're referring to but there is definitely more than one going on there, and my intent wasn't to be evasive I just don't see this conversation with you becoming very productive for anyone.

Quote:
You also seem to believe that these conversations are about changing you
For me, at least, they aren't
You are a believer
You *want* to believe
I believe you have that right as long as you are not hurting yourself or others

These conversations are for the people reading them that are still searching for truth
Yours are the arguments that they are going to hear in their places of worship or when confronted by "witnesses"
No I don't believe they are about changing me because in the big picture what do I really matter to you (<-rhetorical question). I agree with pretty much everything else there.

Also note that these conversations are pretty typical of atheists. A lot of dumping of religion and giving off a general sense of of how much smarter atheists are than believers. Not that this is wrong or upsets me, nor am I trying to offend anyone.
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