Old 07-25-2013, 12:57 PM #2849
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
Why would we need to? If we spent half what was spend in all wars put together into space programs...

You can see where I'm going with this. In space!


Which will never happen.
Not until the next cold war.

The 50 years long Cold War stand as the quickest technological hurdle ever in the history of mankind.

What we need now.
Is humanity to stand on the brink of TOTAL MAD!
That!
Will either propel us to the space age, or it will annihilate EVERY man and woman on the face of the Earth.

WAR is our religion .
Without war , humanity has NOTHING!

Suffering is our drive.
Without suffering and adversity , humanity won't progress.

Crisis is our strong atomic force.
Crisis binds us all together. Despite of our differences and heterogeneous nature.

WAR !!!!!


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Old 07-25-2013, 01:10 PM #2850
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I hope that's a quote from somewhere, otherwise I'd ask you to take a step back and read what you wrote.

In any way, disagreed. You cannot rationalize "wanting for war" in any possible conceivable way. The very "need for war" in order for something to happen is what's fundamentally wrong.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:21 PM #2851
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
I hope that's a quote from somewhere, otherwise I'd ask you to take a step back and read what you wrote.

In any way, disagreed. You cannot rationalize "wanting for war" in any possible conceivable way. The very "need for war" in order for something to happen is what's fundamentally wrong.
I don't want war.
I want a COLD war.

A war which major nations hold each other by the throat and keep on comparing their peen length.

In case you didn't notice.
Almost all of our technology today comes from wars.

Take the iPhone for example.


Launched in 2007, the iPhone brought many of the now familiar capabilities of the iPod together with other communications and information technologies made possible by federal funding:

The microchips powering the iPhone owe their emergence to the U.S. military and space programs, which constituted almost the entire early market for the breakthrough technology in the 1960s, buying enough of the initially costly chips to drive down their price by a factor of 50 in a few short years.

The early foundation of cellular communication lies in radiotelephony capabilities progressively advanced throughout the 20th century with support from the U.S. military.

The technologies underpinning the Internet were developed and funded by the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Agency in the 1960s and 70s.

GPS was originally created and deployed by the military's NAVSTAR satellite program in the 1980s and 90s.

Even the revolutionary multitouch screen that provides the iPhone's intuitive interface was first developed by University of Delaware researchers supported by grants and fellowships provided by the National Science Foundation and the CIA.


Rocketry , computers , planes, railroad,radars and long range communication,etc.
With great wars , comes great technology.

However, wars themselves are intrinsically costly in terms of both monetary and human resources.

Thats why a COLD war is the best option for the human race to leap into the new age.

There will be tension , there will be fear, there will be disparity .

However, in the past 30k years . Since when the human kind has collaborated for extended time in excess of a few decades just before they start spying on each other and then conducting technical and political espionage between allies.
Finally the alliance collapsing over mistrust and fear for their own dominance?
(Kinda like the relationship between America ,EU and Russia)
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:36 PM #2852
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You're well versed.

The point your making is valid, and is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

We need to be motivated by threat of destruction to do something productive. That is, I say again, what's fundamentally wrong.

Same with, coming around full circle, with religion. People feel the need to be motivated by the threat of eternal suffering / promise of eternal happiness to do something. Why?

If we diverted efforts into progress of our civilization because of objectively better future, instead of subjective gain of individual... we'd get places.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:47 PM #2853
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
Same with, coming around full circle, with religion. People feel the need to be motivated by the threat of eternal suffering / promise of eternal happiness to do something. Why?
I've always kinda viewed it as seeking a spiritual relationship with the creator, motivation coming from spiritual instinct and feeling lost without.

Micah 6:8
New International Version (NIV)

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

In the hypothetical everyone was like this, what's left is to be happy and seek technology to improve eachothers quality of life.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:47 PM #2854
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
You're well versed.

The point your making is valid, and is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

We need to be motivated by threat of destruction to do something productive. That is, I say again, what's fundamentally wrong.

Same with, coming around full circle, with religion. People feel the need to be motivated by the threat of eternal suffering / promise of eternal happiness to do something. Why?

If we diverted efforts into progress of our civilization because of objectively better future, instead of subjective gain of individual... we'd get places.
Sadly, as with all organisms.
Without any threat to their existence , or long term well being , they would not change.

As the weather is getting warming , the migration month of birds are being delayed further and further.

As the threat of total annihilation diminishes , companies are resorting to refurbing over used and tested ideas instead of JVing on R&D of innovation technology.

We've reached the scientific equivalent of an energy barrier.
If we were to be excited to the next stage, we MUST first overcome that mode of thought.

Yet , that'll require the rewriting of the entire human nature.
Fear of death , pain , suffering .
All those must first be removed if we were to jump through that barrier and move into perpetual technological grind.

Or we can have a war and have a massive boost every century.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:59 PM #2855
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Eudaimonium View Post
Same with, coming around full circle, with religion. People feel the need to be motivated by the threat of eternal suffering / promise of eternal happiness to do something. Why?
A cane. Religion is a cane that people need.
Its emptyness being filled by something else.

edit:
lucky enough I don't feel empty

Last edited by Leodahsan; 07-25-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:05 PM #2856
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Same here, Leo.

I will help out people asking for my help, not because I expect something in return from them, like monetary compensation or promise of some imaginary "heaven" or whatever. I will help because I will feel good about myself afterwards.

If you do not feel good about yourself when helping out somebody, instead requiring absolute gain, you have far greater problems in your life than religion.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:15 PM #2857
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Isn't that still doing something for a gain, for that good feeling.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:19 PM #2858
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Yes it is.

But in the event that one day religion will be disputed and proven false, like that article above mentions, my motivation for helping and doing good does not disappear and never will.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:27 PM #2859
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Then the people who were religious will become just like you.
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Old 07-25-2013, 02:55 PM #2860
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Which will never happen.
Not until the next cold war.

The 50 years long Cold War stand as the quickest technological hurdle ever in the history of mankind.
umm Correlation does not imply causation. The cold war was preceded by WWII which in turn was preceded by germany, under hitler, dumping everything they had into science and innovation. when WWII started, germany was by far the most technologically advanced nation on the planet. this advantage helped them to steamroll over everything in their path at the start of the war, and forced those who wished to oppose them to follow suit. when the war ended, there was something of a mad grab for nazi scientists on all sides, war criminals were offered sanctuary and put in charge of innovation in other countries (NASA anyone?) The pattern of innovation did NOT start with the cold war, it preceded it by more then a decade.

Also, it did not end with the cold war either. just look at how fast things have changed in the past 20 years. The space race itself was cold war driven, however that doesn't mean that one can justify a claim that all of the technological innovation that happened during it was as well.

While this does NOT remove the argument that war drives innovation. (far from it in fact) I felt the need to point out that the claims the cold war accounted for everything are something people spout that they have heard others spout, without deeming to look into it themselves. (much like religion in general.....)
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:22 PM #2861
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

No War, no Religion, Compassion and Good Deeds for their own sake? Are you a "Dreamer" Eud?

I think you are not alone



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Old 07-25-2013, 06:26 PM #2862
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

"Dreamer"? That is some sort of recognised term for specific personalities?

Or if you think, do I think I've been born on a wrong planet, every time I open a news portal site? If so, yes.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:38 PM #2863
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
I've always kinda viewed it as seeking a spiritual relationship with the creator
<insert imaginary friend joke here>

But seriously, I've never understood how you can develop a relationship with a being that doesn't talk back or make himself known in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDukeAnumber1 View Post
Then the people who were religious will become just like you.
You've made a tremendous underestimation of the number of people who use religion as a justification for hatred in lieu of compassion.
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Old 07-25-2013, 06:54 PM #2864
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
But seriously, I've never understood how you can develop a relationship with a being that doesn't talk back or make himself known in any way.
It's under the belief there is more to a person than what you can see, that an individual has a "spirit", that will exist beyond our bodies passing away and acknowledging that we were created or that our creation was set in motion by the "creator" to make us. Ultimately the process is cultivating that spiritual side to grow closer to him. I'm sure you've hear the "be still and know that I am here" and "God is love" thing.

Quote:
You've made a tremendous underestimation of the number of people who use religion as a justification for hatred in lieu of compassion.
Yeah I understand that, I'm just a little tired of all the negative judgment.
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