Old 02-15-2012, 06:37 PM #2241
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Uhm, you do realize that the BIBLE is man made right?

Also last I checked the stuff Darwin came up with, is was, and continues to be called the Theory of Evolution.

Religion meanwhile does not allow for the possibility of being fallible.

Religion... sense it goes not make. I think I'd rather subscribe to the church of Star Wars, at least then I know it's fun fiction.
So allow me to ask you this: What is the nature of evil?


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Old 02-15-2012, 07:12 PM #2242
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
So allow me to ask you this: What is the nature of evil?
IMO evil is an abstract construct that depends on the perception of the individual.

When you call something evil imo you're narrowing your understanding of the situation.

Is it evil to kill another?

What about to save yourself?

Is the danger immediate or theoretical?

Is cancer evil?

What about non man made natural disasters? The suffering of people is undeniable. Is causing such suffering an act of evil? If so, is god evil?

Getting back to the realm of humanity, and myself, to me Hitler was evil.

Was he evil in the eyes of the german people who followed him at the time though?

So to me evil is anything that I cannot reconcile with my own mores.

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Old 02-15-2012, 07:23 PM #2243
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

"Evil is the violation of, or intent to violate, some moral code." Morality is different to everyone - open to interpretation. You might think burying a woman up to her waist and having a group hurl rocks at her until she is dead is evil. Some Islamic communities on the other hand consider it to be their God-given duty - the exact opposite of evil. Who is correct? In a way, neither and both.

From an evolutionary standpoint, we have developed morality to progress as a species. Every man for himself is bad for survival. If we feel for each other and help one another and act as a group, we have a better chance of surviving. I generally subscribe to the idea that something is immoral if it harms someone else. There are certainly exceptions, but those are dealt with on a case-by-case basis. There are no black-and-white rules like that ten commandment nonsense.
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:27 AM #2244
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Hehe, lovely discussion on morality... yet I can't stop staring at Caitlyn's Troll cosplay. Blizzcon2011 was a good year.
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Old 02-16-2012, 12:49 PM #2245
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

"nature of evil" ? ..... easy to see it ..... anyone able to look in a mirror, can see it .....
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Old 02-20-2012, 06:59 PM #2246
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Meme Jesus

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Old 02-20-2012, 08:02 PM #2247
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
So to me evil is anything that I cannot reconcile with my own mores.
+1
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Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
"Evil is the violation of, or intent to violate, some moral code." Morality is different to everyone -
Yes.
In order to more comprehensively define "evil", I believe what we have to establish is an "across the board" moral code that covers all bases, or is ambiguous enough to cover most situations to an extent. [without using blanket statements or being too black and white]
................
Is gluttony evil?
If so,... I'm fucked.!!!!
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"nature of evil" ? ..... easy to see it ..... anyone able to look in a mirror, can see it .....
Yes. We all have the capability of doing "evil" deeds (and can see in ourselves this truth when looking in the mirror), but some have a greater propensity for evil. *devil-smiley

Why is this? ... Do these "evil" individuals have a different moral code than the societal "norm".???
Or are they just completely amoral?
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:21 PM #2248
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash View Post
Yes. We all have the capability of doing "evil" deeds (and can see in ourselves this truth when looking in the mirror), but some have a greater propensity for evil. *devil-smiley

Why is this? ... Do these "evil" individuals have a different moral code than the societal "norm".???
Or are they just completely amoral?
The capacity for moral behavior, or lack thereof is often related to empathy.

That's why some people will feel sick at even seeing abhorrent acts or their aftermath, and others have zero reaction.

An even more disturbing third option are people who derive enjoyment from making others suffer.

Often it's been hypothesized that if there was a way to allow perpetrators to experience the consequences of their actions, repeat offenders would for the most part become a thing of the past.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:33 PM #2249
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Thanks Dave, funny.
The MEME currently is "story time Jesus". Other than the link in that article (KYM Link) the full set can be found at QuickMEME.

Very nice! Thanks for the link to the others

I ain't gonna get crap done today, am I?

Peace,
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**EDIT** P.S. I see Locke vs. Hobbes coming on
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:20 PM #2250
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

agnostique
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:38 PM #2251
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
IMO evil is an abstract construct that depends on the perception of the individual.

When you call something evil imo you're narrowing your understanding of the situation.

Is it evil to kill another?

What about to save yourself?

Is the danger immediate or theoretical?

Is cancer evil?

What about non man made natural disasters? The suffering of people is undeniable. Is causing such suffering an act of evil? If so, is god evil?

Getting back to the realm of humanity, and myself, to me Hitler was evil.

Was he evil in the eyes of the german people who followed him at the time though?

So to me evil is anything that I cannot reconcile with my own mores.

Fun conversation to have over a few drinks
For sure, a fascinating topic! Is it then evil to have (with the knowledge of Hitler's intent) gone in and taken Hitler "out" while he was still "non evil" from the German people's point of view? In other words, can ignorance allow anything at all to become acceptable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
"Evil is the violation of, or intent to violate, some moral code." Morality is different to everyone - open to interpretation. You might think burying a woman up to her waist and having a group hurl rocks at her until she is dead is evil. Some Islamic communities on the other hand consider it to be their God-given duty - the exact opposite of evil. Who is correct? In a way, neither and both.
How about you too, Cyparagon? Does acting in ignorance excuse a "culture" from what universally does hurt others?

The underwear bomber was acting by "The will of God", killing in God's name. Does that actually say anything about his God? Or does it define a range of ignorance from which he acts?

You might find that cultural differences which result in different moralities, can prevent cultures from colliding or interacting together as humans are supposed to be able to do. If we're all human, then why the different moral rulers? You could always consider the famous question: What do men live by?

Should one culture have to avoid interaction with another culture, for fear of getting beheaded? Is there nothing wrong with that? Or is it wrong for one culture to "project" a subjective evil onto another one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash View Post
Yes. We all have the capability of doing "evil" deeds (and can see in ourselves this truth when looking in the mirror), but some have a greater propensity for evil. *devil-smiley
Everyone who acts, breeds both good and evil. More good for some, or evil for others.
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:45 AM #2252
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Good questions. I'll address them when I have more time tomorrow

Quote:
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An even more disturbing third option are people who derive enjoyment from making others suffer.
Suddenly, BDSM
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:15 AM #2253
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Since this kind of started with me posting Yoda...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoda
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
Quote:
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For sure, a fascinating topic! Is it then evil to have (with the knowledge of Hitler's intent) gone in and taken Hitler "out" while he was still "non evil" from the German people's point of view? In other words, can ignorance allow anything at all to become acceptable?
Well here you're also touching upon another very interesting concept... the greater good.

Is killing one infant morally justified if it saves a thousand lives?

What if that baby in turns grows up to become a scientist, and develops a vaccine that saves millions?

So now we're also touching upon the subject of willful ignorance. Or our own attempts to rationalize our actions.

Ultimately, imo, ignorance is not a valid reason for allowing evil to persist.

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Suddenly, BDSM

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Old 02-21-2012, 07:32 AM #2254
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well, about "morality", i always considered it as BS.

So-called "morality", imho, depend from time and ethnic /social contests, it's not a value, it's an excuse

In the past, in some countries and ethnic groups, was "moral" to eat the brain of the enemy you killed, in a public ceremony, for "celebrate the value of the enemy" ..... and anyone that don't do that, was considered "amoral" and avoided from any other.

Again, in different conditions and ethnicity, infanticide was considered "moral", especially for twins birth (the credence was that a woman can give birth only to one soul at a time, so the first of two twins was killed, cause it was a "soulless" creature, a demon).

Lots and lots of examples, similar to these ones, in all the history, i don't need to write down all them, i think ..... the fact is that "moral" is like BS, it can justify or criminalize anything, literally

Different thing is if you speak about "ethic", or, also better, about "personal ethic" ..... in my mind, ethic is that what * MY * conscience say that is right and wrong ..... as example, i can go out and shot in the head to the first person i don't like the hair color ..... i don't do this, not cause moral say that in this specific context it's a wrong thing, but cause MY ethic say that this is not a good thing to do, regardless the context.

Is, basically, the same error that is always done confusing, as example, "law" and "justice" ..... and other similar concepts .....
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:42 AM #2255
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I have never been one to ponder on the good and evil debate. I live my life the way I want to... if people have a problem with it I'm happy to listen to their reasoning, but ultimately won't change my ways.

I don't live to make other people happy.

Lase

EDIT: My religious beliefs = Nihilistic
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Last edited by Lase; 02-21-2012 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:53 AM #2256
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lase View Post
..... My religious beliefs = Nihilistic
Yes, but, "ethic nihilism" or "gnoseologic nihilism" ?

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