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Old 01-26-2011, 10:00 AM #1953
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

It's good to know the vast majority here feel as I do, my mom would drag me and my sister to church until I was about 12 years old. Even at that age I had enough of that dogma! It just seemed to have no relevance in my daily life. It's kind of a shame though, because with the exception of my dad, the rest of my family are STILL religilous oops I mean religious! Also has anyone here seen the commentary of Pat Condell? Truly dynamite stuff! He is even stronger about religion than Bill maher.


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Old 01-27-2011, 02:34 PM #1954
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by LORDJET View Post
It's good to know the vast majority here feel as I do, my mom would drag me and my sister to church until I was about 12 years old. Even at that age I had enough of that dogma! It just seemed to have no relevance in my daily life. It's kind of a shame though, because with the exception of my dad, the rest of my family are STILL religilous oops I mean religious! Also has anyone here seen the commentary of Pat Condell? Truly dynamite stuff! He is even stronger about religion than Bill maher.

Vocal majority does NOT equal vast majority.

I LOVE Pat Condell. He and I are "friends."

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Old 01-27-2011, 09:41 PM #1955
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Vocal majority does NOT equal vast majority.

I LOVE Pat Condell. He and I are "friends."

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Ahhh yes that's true, poor choice of words I guess. It's just good to be among kindred spirits, in interests as well as a certain view of the world!
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:46 PM #1956
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Ahhh yes that's true, poor choice of words I guess. It's just good to be among kindred spirits, in interests as well as a certain view of the world!
Agreed.

However, just for perspective:

We have >5,500 "active" members.
>400 of them visit the forum in any given 12 hour period.
How many members have posted in this thread?

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Old 01-27-2011, 10:16 PM #1957
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Agreed.

However, just for perspective:

We have >5,500 "active" members.
>400 of them visit the forum in any given 12 hour period.
How many members have posted in this thread?

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That's a very good point Dave. It just took me a long time to read all the posts in this thread ( And a great thread it is. ) So it just seems like more people share this opinion. But judging by those numbers, it's really a small percentage.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:32 PM #1958
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by LORDJET View Post
That's a very good point Dave. It just took me a long time to read all the posts in this thread ( And a great thread it is. ) So it just seems like more people share this opinion. But judging by those numbers, it's really a small percentage.
It is a small percentage of members posting in this thread.

The main point that I was going for is really dealing with the membership as a whole and the human tendency to want to part of the "in-group." It is NOT that it is a small percentage of the members here. The point is that it is an unknown percentage.

However, the human mind wants to be part of the "right" group. Therefore we have a tendency to perceive those that are like us as more numerous. We then "hang out with" the ones that are like us. We associate less with people that are unlike us. Soon we begin to believe that EVERYONE is like us.

It goes something like this:
I have a scientific mind -> I hang out in this forum -> I am an atheist ->
Most others who hang out in this forum must also have a scientific mind -> Most others on this list are also atheists

Once you add the unbalanced atheist vs. believer post count in this thread to the above thought process, it is a "natural" conclusion that the majority of members here are atheists.

The human mind hates "not knowing" so it just makes crap up to make sense of the world in the way that we want it to.

An empirical approach would support that the majority of people visiting here are Russian Orthodox
The majority of unique visits come through Russian servers -> The majority of people here are Russian -> 70% of Russian are Russian Orthodox -> Most people here are Russian Orthodox.

Prejudices and biases occur on ALL sides of the religion debate. These tendencies are hard-wired into our brains. Our job is to become aware of them and to deal with them when they become known to us

Bottom line -- We do not know if you are part of a minority or part of a majority here.

Peace,
dave
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:45 PM #1959
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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However, the human mind wants to be part of the "right" group. Therefore we have a tendency to perceive those that are like us as more numerous. We then "hang out with" the ones that are like us. We associate less with people that are unlike us. Soon we begin to believe that EVERYONE is like us.
Sorry for extrapolate this part only, from all the post, but i'm not completely sure i can agree with this rule (or, better said, i understand that some peoples follow it, i just personally don't agree to follow it too).

I mean, my convinctions, and my decisions, are not made cause i consider them "good for the right group", nor i usually want to be part of any "right group" (intended as "the majority is the right one" principle) ..... in fact, sometimes i had, and still have, lots of problems just cause i reject the "common convinctions" (aka "sheep branch convinctions" ).

I mean, i act in a certain way, and think in a certain way, not cause all the ones around are doing the same (half of the times, this does not happens ) ..... just cause i think this way is the right one, REGARDLESS that what all the others think ..... is this really so wrong ?

..... or i'm just the "strange one" in the village, for this ?
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:02 PM #1960
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Sorry for extrapolate this part only, from all the post, but i'm not completely sure i can agree with this rule (or, better said, i understand that some peoples follow it, i just personally don't agree to follow it too).

I mean, my convinctions, and my decisions, are not made cause i consider them "good for the right group", nor i usually want to be part of any "right group" (intended as "the majority is the right one" principle) ..... in fact, sometimes i had, and still have, lots of problems just cause i reject the "common convinctions" (aka "sheep branch convinctions" ).

I mean, i act in a certain way, and think in a certain way, not cause all the ones around are doing the same (half of the times, this does not happens ) ..... just cause i think this way is the right one, REGARDLESS that what all the others think ..... is this really so wrong ?

..... or i'm just the "strange one" in the village, for this ?
Discussions like this, and really science in general, are reductionist by their very nature. We can NEVER really talk about EVERYBODY. Scientists deal with the majority. Here is an example of a normal bell curve:


Most science (especially social science) only deal with the middle 68%. Once you move outside one standard deviation, the assumptions begin to break down.

If you move outside two standard deviations . . .well . . . There be dragons there

I would posit that you are outside two standard deviations with regard to the "in-group vs. out-group" dialectic.

Peace,
dave
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:14 PM #1961
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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I would posit that you are outside two standard deviations with regard to the "in-group vs. out-group" dialectic.
Uh. well, that's embarassing, you know ..... i always made my better for achieve the maximum possible results, and now you say that i'm two standard deviations outside .....

..... i'm feeling a bit embarassed .....
























..... i mean, "only" two ? ..... what can i do better, for get at least 3 ? .....

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Old 01-28-2011, 09:53 PM #1962
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Hmmm, interesting points guys. I will say that I have never really fit in, or felt the need to fit in with any group who claims to have ALL the answers about life, or the nature of the universe. Even at a very early age I kind of felt like I must of been dropped out of the sky in a titanium egg. I never really seemed to relate to, or even understand the human race as a whole. Let alone the desire to '' fit in '' with them.

I did however seem to want to know all I could about science in general, and technology. I guess you could say that was my world. Religion just seemed empty to me, I just couldn't wrap my head around any belief that claimed to have all the answers! I guess you could say I am a truth seeker. I only believe what I know to be fact, and can be proved.

It is just nice to come here and see that some of you feel along the lines as I do. You have to understand that living in the " bible belt '' I often find myself having to listen, ( almost on a daily basis at my work ) to these narrow little sheep mentalities go on about what they believe. But I am always respectful, and never get involved in these discussions. So I guess you could say after all these years I am still hungry for the truth and curious about life and the universe!

My 2 cents,
Jim
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:33 AM #1963
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

^ uhm ..... but, if really happens that any (entity, individual, group, whatever) have the complete knowledge about ALL the answers, "it" become, for definition, a God itself .....

Isn't this a little bit contradictory ?

Anyway, some religions already say something similars too ..... there are some, but the first that come in mind is Hebraic, where (AFAIK) the knowledge of the "real" names give material control on the things that belong to this name, and where the knowledge of the "real name of God" make yourself a God .....

(and sorry to the Hebraitic religious ones, if the above statement is incorrect somewhere ..... no intentions to offend, i base my knowledges only from things that i read from books ..... i still don't know the "real name" of the knowledge )
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:19 PM #1964
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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<snip> i base my knowledges only from things that i read from books .....i still don't know the "real name" of the knowledge )
That would be: Homer Edmund Purdy III

Embrace your deity.

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Old 01-30-2011, 10:53 AM #1965
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'm really enjoying this discussion, it's good to be among people who seem to share my views on religion(or at least those who are posting in this thread seem to), In my opinion it is a symptom of the human condition to want to believe in things such as religion and life after death, even with no hard evidence. My parents were pretty surprised the first time their 14-year old son told them that.

Quote:
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Discussions like this, and really science in general, are reductionist by their very nature. We can NEVER really talk about EVERYBODY. Scientists deal with the majority. Here is an example of a normal bell curve:


Most science (especially social science) only deal with the middle 68%. Once you move outside one standard deviation, the assumptions begin to break down.

If you move outside two standard deviations . . .well . . . There be dragons there

I would posit that you are outside two standard deviations with regard to the "in-group vs. out-group" dialectic.

Peace,
dave
This is very true, but from my experiences with smart people(most of which I only know online, not many smart people live in small Australian towns), They are almost always on the fringe groups of the curve, generally not fitting in with the in-group, preferring technology to sociality and being "loners" or hanging around in small groups of similar people (where available), possibly giving rise to the stereotypical "nerd" type.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:29 PM #1966
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Im sad that not many people here believe in christ.
But i expected this...lasers are...sci-fi like. So people believe this is all human made.
But let us remember that all devices and stuff on the world, is not made by humans. We just shaped the raw materials...but we did not create the beginning of the earth - the materials everything consists of.
I dont know the whole bible out of my head and i really dont want to fight and argue people here.
For me there are 2 beliefs in the whole world. Believe there is a god, believe there is no god.
For believers in god there us plenty of proof god exists.
For believers in the evolution there is plenty of proof evolution exists.
Evolution has more followers and therefore more "proof".

Yes i believe in life after death. We humans dont know shit about the universe and what was created whoever started this earth. May it be god evolution or whatever.
We probaly dont know 1% of what there is to discover in technology and stuff.
So its save to assume we also dont know that there can be life after death - our minds cant set to it, its "unbelievable".
And i have no reason to believe in god because i fear death or something. Everyone fears death. Its all around you. Just not literary. But everything here on this planet falls apart one day. Its death, in some kind of way. Maybe some people say they dont fear it, but they will experience the fear once their brother dies or so. So im not talking about the fear of dieing yourself

Okay i will try to answer reply's to this post....but dont ask me to hard questions because like i said i dont know everything...
I will read with a open mind, i always do.
But i wont make this a religious fight or something.

Thanks and good night now.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:49 PM #1967
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
I have one central belief in my life


I believe I'll have another beer


Beyond that, all bets are off.

Peace,
dave
i use to think some wise shit came out of a bottle but not any more now i try to believe that i am living in the moment
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:33 PM #1968
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Default Re: LPF's Religion



Peace,
dave
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