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Old 12-20-2010, 08:32 AM #1873
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Faith is a gift. You either have it, or you dont. People always say 'proof'. Well faith is like love. You cant make someone fall in love, but you can obviously see the love shared between two people. Same with God. You cant make people believe in God, but you can obviously see people who have God in their heart. There are too many people in the world who follow a religion to call it some fake, unjustified action. Being scientist you have to except the fact that 100's of millions of people cant be wrong. Statistically it cant be denied. Now what peoples interpretation of Gods will is completely man made, to serve man's ego, pride, ect. Thats where organized religions fails. You dont need 10 commandment to tell you what is right and wrong, you already know it. You dont need the Bible/Qur'an/ect either. All religious testaments were man's interpretation of what he thought it should be. This is not to say its bad in its entirety. Some people need a guiding hand, because their own personal direction is misaligned. In fact most of the people in the world are misaligned. So religion has its place. It also goes the other way unfortunately, and people use it for their own misguided reasons. But there will always be the two sides of that coin, just like everything else in this world.

You guys can sit here, and quote back and forth, but you're only echoing others opinions. Faith is personal, and different for all. No one can completely prove, or disprove it. So all the arguments are a wast of time, but men will never let it lay. Thats where Tyler's argument of pride comes from. It is truly the root of all the agony in the world. Peace can only come from being humble, and accepting. Which is where the term "The meek will inherit the Earth" comes from. If we truly were meek people, there would be no war, no starvation, no pestilence, and people would be at one with the environment, moving forward a break neck speeds. Religions were made to guide people to this. There are no negative religions, other than Satanism. What is truly unfortunate is that most religion has not changed with the times, and that is its fatal flaw. Ideals can still be kept under new rules. But once again pride has made this impossible. If you are to proud to accept others idealisms, and ways, then we are all lost.

I'll give you a personal example. I dont not believe in abortion, period. But who am I to tell you what you should believe in? If you chose pro choice, I accept your decision. Everyone has to live with their own consequences, on both sides of the coin. You dont have to agree with a person to love them. Pride, an intolerance are the true evils of the world.

Rant over, I'm out, again.

May peace be with all of you.


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Old 12-20-2010, 12:14 PM #1874
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Very interesting to look at, thanks!

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Old 12-20-2010, 02:56 PM #1875
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Tech_Junkie View Post
There are too many people in the world who follow a religion to call it some fake, unjustified action. Being scientist you have to except the fact that 100's of millions of people cant be wrong. Statistically it cant be denied.
Tens of millions of people actively refute the theory of evolution and the Earth being over 6000 years old, too - just because it is a widely-held belief doesn't necessarily mean it's true.

Another example - if you ask someone on the street the Monty Hall Problem then they will say the odds are 50:50, but it is mathematically demonstrable that this is not the case. Intuition is an amazing tool but it isn't infallible.

If you mean that the fact faith is so common and widely-spread suggests something is there, then another way to look at it is that people have an innate desire to feel connected (an useful social instinct), and have a fear of the unknown. Religion or personal faith fill those "boxes" and make our lives more emotionally comfortable, thus some form of faith is widely found.

Other than that, I couldn't agree more with your points. Religion, organised or other, could be a great force for good in the world if wielded responsibly and sensibly. Unfortunately, in its current form, I'm not so sure that is the case.
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Old 12-20-2010, 03:51 PM #1876
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Tens of millions of people actively refute the theory of evolution and the Earth being over 6000 years old, too - just because it is a widely-held belief doesn't necessarily mean it's true.
This is very true. If any young earth creationist tell you they have evidence, they will give none, or just point you top Ken Ham!

No thanks to some of the Greeks, and the Christans from history who felt they got "burned" by science since they're interpretation of Bible became a legalistic "literal" one.
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:29 PM #1877
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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What is truly unfortunate is that most religion has not changed with the times, and that is its fatal flaw.
But to change rules would be admitting the church was wrong.

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God didn't "write" anything except the ten commandments... Would you say that God is incapable of having a man write without errors, after being inspired?
"The Ten Commandments are woefully inadequate as a moral guide. The first four are blatant religious propaganda - basically a plug for the Hebrew God. The remaining six are dangerously held up as exhaustive and inspired by those who apparently haven't read them. For example, one wonders how 'lying' and 'envy' make the list of big don'ts, but not rape, torture, child abuse, racism, slavery... And surely nobody still seriously believes that black and white moral guidelines are of much use in a grayscale world. 'Thou shalt not kill' - but what about in genuine self-defense? 'Thou shalt not bear false witness' - but what about lying to the Nazi officer who asks if you are hiding Jews? True morality requires judging each case on its own merits, not just overlaying the same clumsy morality stencil on everything."


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Being scientist you have to except the fact that 100's of millions of people cant be wrong. Statistically it cant be denied.
Ahem... Roman mythology, Egyptian mythology, Greek mythology, Norse mythology to name a few. "Christians dismiss 9,999 religions as false. Atheists dismiss just one more."
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:14 PM #1878
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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But to change rules would be admitting the church was wrong.
Guess I'm not done.

You missed the whole point of my post, and your anger is evident.

People who make their own interpretations of the basic ideals of religion are wrong, not the ideals of religion itself. Regardless of your views on certain religions, Christ, Muhammad, Buddha ect where men of peace, understanding, and love. Those rules should never be changed, they are not "wrong". The structure of religion is what needs to be changed. Every day society moves in a different direction, but religion has been static for the most part. Heck, the pope finally made littering a sin just a few years ago. This clearly shows how far back things really are.

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If you mean that the fact faith is so common and widely-spread suggests something is there, then another way to look at it is that people have an innate desire to feel connected (an useful social instinct), and have a fear of the unknown. Religion or personal faith fill those "boxes" and make our lives more emotionally comfortable, thus some form of faith is widely found.
I realize there are "sheep". Those are the misaligned people I talked about. They are not the millions of people with true faith in their hearts. Once again, you cant make someone have faith, they have to find it for themselves. The population of people of faith has been studied over, and over for thousands of years. Why? Because it a common fixture in society, and always will be. As long as faith exists, God exists. To this day, they cannot explain, or ever will explain why people have faith. To me its a simple, there is a higher being, and its a positive entity. I see it everyday. I'm not a sheep, or have any deep voids that need to be fulfilled. I even abandoned the religion I was brought up on. I know in my heart 100% that a higher being exists. No one will ever understand this unless they are blessed with faith.

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Old 12-20-2010, 05:15 PM #1879
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Tech_Junkie View Post
Being scientist you have to except the fact that 100's of millions of people cant be wrong. Statistically it cant be denied.
Oh, yes it can. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."-Einstein.

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Very interesting to look at, thanks!

-Trevor
Yep, I've been trying to find the article directly published from some .gov website that I used last year for a project, but I can't seem to... It was very interesting, if I recall correctly the person most likely to get an abortion in the US was an unmarried catholic black woman between ages 25 and 30.
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:43 PM #1880
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Every day society moves in a different direction, but religion has been static for the most part.
Yes, but like I said - one reason the church doesn't change its rules is because that would be like admitting it was wrong. And that is NOT the church's M.O.
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:52 PM #1881
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

There is no wrong, just restructure. All the older rules still apply, there would be amendments to fit today's society, and a restructuring to appeal to a new audience. They did it with the New Testament. It didnt mean the old testament was wrong.

The main reasons why they are not changing is... 1. comfort level, 2. money, and 3. power. Its the same with the US government. As long as no ones comfort level is disturbed, and the people in power are making the big cake, nothing will change. And it even goes above that.

Sad really.
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:56 PM #1882
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

The Pope is apologizing for a lot of stuff lately, admiting that his church did wrong/not good enough.
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:58 PM #1883
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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The Pope is apologizing for a lot of stuff lately, admiting that his church did wrong/not good enough.
I heard that about the old pope. I'm not really sure how the new one is doing.
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:16 PM #1884
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ratzinger is even more apologetic!
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Old 12-20-2010, 11:46 PM #1885
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Thats a good thing.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:19 AM #1886
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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There is no wrong, just restructure. All the older rules still apply, there would be amendments to fit today's society, and a restructuring to appeal to a new audience. They did it with the New Testament. It didnt mean the old testament was wrong.

The main reasons why they are not changing is... 1. comfort level, 2. money, and 3. power. Its the same with the US government. As long as no ones comfort level is disturbed, and the people in power are making the big cake, nothing will change. And it even goes above that.

Sad really.
So what you are saying is that morals change? It looks like love and peace might not be the best things after all...
If religion taught morals in a good way, it wouldn't try to be so self-assured and forceful. If the bible said "Live to the most recent moral standards", then it might be a force for good, but instead it says "Kill the gays, make women marry their rapists, slavery is OK."
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:53 AM #1887
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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So what you are saying is that morals change? It looks like love and peace might not be the best things after all...
If religion taught morals in a good way, it wouldn't try to be so self-assured and forceful. If the bible said "Live to the most recent moral standards", then it might be a force for good, but instead it says "Kill the gays, make women marry their rapists, slavery is OK."
First, when you debate, you need to know your subject. Not echoing what others have told you about the subject. There is nothing in the Bible that says kill gays. In fact one of the Commandments is tho shalt not kill. Show me where it says "except fags" on the tablets, LMAO. And the other subjects are what I was talking about that needed to be updated, obviously.

I'm not going to keep debating with you guys, because it goes against my point. There is no end to the argument, so why keep debating it? I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm not preaching, I'm giving you the side of a person that has faith, and my personal feelings on the subject. Take what you will from it, and thats it.
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Old 12-21-2010, 05:58 AM #1888
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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First, when you debate, you need to know your subject. Not echoing what others have told you about the subject. There is nothing in the Bible that says kill gays. In fact one of the Commandments is tho shalt not kill. Show me where it says "except fags" on the tablets, LMAO. And the other subjects are what I was talking about that needed to be updated, obviously.
Holy crap, I'm so tired of posting this everywhere...
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Got it? That's one of many anti-homo***ual sentiments in the bible... Also, the reason it doesn't say "except gays" on the tablets is because the whole bible is one giant contradiction.
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