Old 12-17-2010, 02:22 AM #1825
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Religion is like a penis

It's fine to have one.
It's fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.
And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats.

May your God be with you.

This is a quote I found, and if anyone thinks it's inappropriate I will delete it.

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Old 12-17-2010, 02:33 AM #1826
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coherent Light View Post
Religion is like a penis

It's fine to have one.
It's fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around.
And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my children's throats.

May your God be with you.

This is a quote I found, and if anyone thinks it's inappropriate I will delete it.

Cohernet:
Sure, but this debate is interesting.

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Old 12-17-2010, 02:37 AM #1827
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

As long as everyone is respected a debate over religion can be stimulating, and provide food for thought to all parties involved.

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Old 12-18-2010, 03:20 AM #1828
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
This alone should prove that no text is the immutable word of any god.

Try a quick read of :

"The Dark Side of Christian History" by Helen Ellerbe

for some historical info about the many re-writes

Peace,
dave
If God breathes scripture, is it inerrant?

@Awesome Guy Will: http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/

People of all forms of religion, and atheism present. You should check it out.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:51 AM #1829
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Moving right along, who knows anything about Gnosticism.

Not that I am "one" or anything I just find it pretty interesting (I don't know how to properly word anything to do with Gnosticism. Is one who practices Gnosticism a Gnostic?)
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:02 AM #1830
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Yep it's Gnostic. I find Them an interesting group, and it's too bad the church pretty much wiped them out in the 4th century. I think some of their churches are still accessible in parts of Egypt.
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:31 AM #1831
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
If God breathes scripture, is it inerrant?
If god "breathes" he is not god

Peace,
dave
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:40 AM #1832
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
If god "breathes" he is not god

Peace,
dave
God "breathed" life into man, giving him the "image" of God.

C'mon man, you know this.

"breathes", as in - God inspired.

If God inspired scripture, is it inerrant?
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Last edited by Meatball; 12-18-2010 at 04:51 AM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:50 AM #1833
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Are there not other parts of the bible that were omitted at one point in time? I can see how you could claim that the bible might have been inerrant at one point in time, but I seem to recall some parts of the bible that were considered "controversial" being omitted during one of the translations.

Can the entire bible be considered inerrant if parts of the original were omitted?
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:58 AM #1834
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
"breathes", as in - God inspired.

If God inspired scripture, is it inerrant?
Emotion laden jargon and my humorous play on words aside;

My suggestion above stands.

Read: "The Dark Side of Christian History" by Helen Ellerbe to get a sense of who REALLY "inspired" the different translations down through history and their motivations for doing so

You may also see some of those "inspirations" still active in your church leaders today

If you want to believe, then believe. Just don't pretend that these facts do not exist and then try to convince others that they do not exist.

The only "divine" process that could have possibly led to the different translations of the text through time, IF the words were "divinely inspired," would be that god changed through time to more closely match the desires of the political and church leaders of the time.

That doesn't lead one to see much in the way omniscience or omnipotence in the "author."

Peace,
dave
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:03 AM #1835
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

^^^^ I Like It..
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:04 AM #1836
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Well I believe that the "Word" is the scripture in its original form.

The Old and New Testament, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God.

Greek is a much more "rich" language than English.

Parts have been taken out before, but they have certainly been put back in for the most recent versions of the Bible. The New American Standard is considered the most accurate "English" version. Remember the versions only exist to keep up with current, changing languages.

Any (half-way respected) additional version of the Bible is derived from the many thousands of original texts we have in their original languages- all of which are 99% identical. The 1% difference accounts for some mis-spellings as grammer and whatnot changed over time. The context is 100% all there though.

Any other part of the "Bible" that was omitted, (take the book of Thomas for ex.) were not included to be part of the actual Bible, because the author, and the date of composure didn't appear to line up with the others it was compared with. Thus, it could not be anonymously decided that it could be trusted as something that was truly "God Inspired".

Consider that number of original copies of Shakespeare's works that we have, and how we've filled in our own words for the missing pages!

Quote:
Originally Posted by daguin View Post
Emotion laden jargon and my humorous play on words aside;

My suggestion above stands.

Read: "The Dark Side of Christian History" by Helen Ellerbe to get a sense of who REALLY "inspired" the different translations down through history and their motivations for doing so

You may also see some of those "inspirations" still active in your church leaders today

If you want to believe, then believe. Just don't pretend that these facts do not exist and then try to convince others that they do not exist.

The only "divine" process that could have possibly led to the different translations of the text through time, IF the words were "divinely inspired," would be that god changed through time to more closely match the desires of the political and church leaders of the time.

That doesn't lead one to see much in the way omniscience or omnipotence in the "author."

Peace,
dave
Are you speaking of Robert Boyle?

Or the corrupted Catholic Church of the time? Perhaps Some French or English King?

We all know of their errors. No one can deny them. Boyle had good intentions though.

I don't see such "inspirations" in my church today- I'm not charismatic by any means!

I'm an old earth creationist Berean, I check it with the Word first!

Now, back to the question:

IF God inspired scripture, would it be inerrant?
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Last edited by Meatball; 12-18-2010 at 05:11 AM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:07 AM #1837
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
Well I believe that the "Word" is the scripture in its original form.

The Old and New Testament, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God.

Greek is a much more "rich" language than English.

Parts have been taken out before, but they have certainly been put back in for the most recent versions of the Bible. The New American Standard is considered the most accurate "English" version. Remember the versions only exist to keep up with current, changing languages.

Any (half-way respected) additional version of the Bible is derived from the many thousands of original texts we have in their original languages- all of which are 99% identical. The 1% difference accounts for some mis-spellings as grammer and whatnot changed over time. The context is 100% all there though.

Any other part of the "Bible" that was omitted, (take the book of Thomas for ex.) were not included to be part of the actual Bible, because the author, and the date of composure didn't appear to line up with the others it was compared with. Thus, it could not be anonymously decided that it could be trusted as something that was truly "God Inspired".

Consider that number of original copies of Shakespeare's works that we have, and how we've filled in our own words for the missing pages!
WOW! If you truly believe this, then you have not done ANY independent research of your own text or the plethora of other "scrolls" found.

Oh yea -- Greek isn't the original language of the scrolls

Peace,
dave
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:09 AM #1838
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

You are forgetting about the little party that the christen church had in the 4th century where they willy nilly decided what books to include in the bible and what to throw out.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:20 AM #1839
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatball View Post
Well I believe that the "Word" is the scripture in its original form.

The Old and New Testament, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God.

Greek is a much more "rich" language than English.

Parts have been taken out before, but they have certainly been put back in for the most recent versions of the Bible. The New American Standard is considered the most accurate "English" version. Remember the versions only exist to keep up with current, changing languages.

Any (half-way respected) additional version of the Bible is derived from the many thousands of original texts we have in their original languages- all of which are 99% identical. The 1% difference accounts for some mis-spellings as grammer and whatnot changed over time. The context is 100% all there though.

Any other part of the "Bible" that was omitted, (take the book of Thomas for ex.) were not included to be part of the actual Bible, because the author, and the date of composure didn't appear to line up with the others it was compared with. Thus, it could not be anonymously decided that it could be trusted as something that was truly "God Inspired".

Consider that number of original copies of Shakespeare's works that we have, and how we've filled in our own words for the missing pages!



Are you speaking of Robert Boyle?

Or the corrupted Catholic Church of the time? Perhaps Some French or English King?

We all know of their errors. No one can deny them. Boyle had good intentions though.

I don't see such "inspirations" in my church today- I'm not charismatic by any means!

I'm an old earth creationist Berean, I check it with the Word first!

Now, back to the question:

IF God inspired scripture, would it be inerrant?
The original question was much more close to simply "If god?"

I'm not "referring" to anything beyond what I have written. You do not need to try to figure out what my intentions are. I have been very much up front with them. The only "fact" you referred to in your statement above was that "you believe."

Read something not given to you by your church.

Or are you not strong enough in your belief to eat the meat?

Peace,
dave
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Last edited by daguin; 12-18-2010 at 05:23 AM.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:21 AM #1840
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Coherent Light View Post
You are forgetting about the little party that the christen church had in the 4th century where they willy nilly decided what books to include in the bible and what to throw out.
Council of Nicea perhaps?

Book of Thomas, Judas.. thrown out during that time! The apocrypha is a collection of those questioned "books" that were presented as God "inspired", but could not find their place.

That's essentially where All the collected "God inspired" material came to be either put into a collection (The Bible) or not.

Such a process would be painstaking.
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