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Old 08-10-2010, 08:09 AM #1617
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

And, what do you prefer more, as polytheist ?

the 5th church of Christ Cosmonaut ? (none know what happened to the first 4, anyway )

The childrens of the last days ? (anything is permited, including murder ..... cause, after all, these are the last days )

Johannes gnostic church ? (where you can summon angels and saints for prepare you a cocktail, heat your bed and kill your enemies )

The revisited congregations of God in the world ? (wondering if was God that "revisited" them, and what "God" exactly )

Zeus and his company ? (ok, ok, Venus is not too bad, but there are some bad guys in the group, too )

Baal ? (personally, i don't like the smell of the infants burned alive all the mornings of ceremony, but anyone have their preferences )

Egyptian pantheon ? (be careful with Sekhmet, don't take a bath with Sobek, and "beware the Anubis" :P)

Celtic / druidic pantheon ? (Aine and Cliodhna are not bad, but don't take an appointment with Morrigan )

Hell, there are so much lists, that i think a post can't hold all them ..... but ..... thinking better, you don't need to go too far, for be polytheist ..... is enough that you remain christian .....

..... after all, the divine trinity is "3 in 1", and 3 is already polytheism, someway .....


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Old 08-10-2010, 09:38 AM #1618
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Question Re: LPF's Religion

I'm more spiritually transcendent, but for me Gaia and Pan represent the female and male facets of a larger whole.
PS- Not Wiccan, but have friends who are.

@himnl9 - Impressive! Don't forget the Eastern pantheons - that adds up pretty quickly :-) Oh and, there's something on your shoulder, there. May be a safety concern...
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:46 AM #1619
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I didn't do an exhaustive search, but I assume I'm the only pagan on here. Is anyone keeping track? Actually, I'm surprised the thread happened at all.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:53 AM #1620
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Try some yoga, that should do it for you.

@HIMNL9 you got PM
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:00 AM #1621
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

I'm a gnostic atheist, and a nihilist.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:13 AM #1622
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Talking Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by Markus Unread View Post
@himnl9 ..... Oh and, there's something on your shoulder, there. May be a safety concern...
Naah ..... there is nothing more, on my shoulder ..... times, ago, something star-shaped with tentacles, tried to take that placed, but i filled it with DDT, and from that time, it never tried again ..... (poor H. P. Lovecraft little pet )



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I'm a gnostic atheist, and a nihilist.
..... a "gnostic atheist" ?? .....

I still have to see something similar .....
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:14 AM #1623
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

@millirad "Try some yoga, that should do it for you."

Oh man, been there done that. If I'd needed a drill instructor trying to break me, I'd have gone for the RMC.

"Go towards the light - DON'T WALK INTO THE BEAM YOU GIT!"
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Old 08-10-2010, 04:50 PM #1624
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
..... a "gnostic atheist" ?? .....

I still have to see something similar .....
agnostic means "not knowing" and gnostic means "knowing". So he's 100% sure that there's no god, as opposed to unsure but thinking there probably isn't.
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Old 08-10-2010, 05:46 PM #1625
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agnostic means "not knowing" and gnostic means "knowing". So he's 100% sure that there's no god, as opposed to unsure but thinking there probably isn't.
LOL, no, i meant in "religious" sense, not in laicist sense ..... sorry, i had to specify that .....

Gnostic churches are sure that God and God servants (angels and saints) exists, and they claim to know the "magic names / formulas" for summon / evocate them and have their requests satisfied (opposite to "standard" religions, where you can only "pray and hope") ..... and atheists are sure that there is no Gods, or at least so they believe .....

So, i thoughd it was a bit strange to have a person that contemporarily know for sure that God exist, AND trust that God does not exist .....
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:08 PM #1626
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Ah got it lol...
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:34 PM #1627
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Originally Posted by HIMNL9 View Post
LOL, no, i meant in "religious" sense, not in laicist sense ..... sorry, i had to specify that .....

Gnostic churches are sure that God and God servants (angels and saints) exists, and they claim to know the "magic names / formulas" for summon / evocate them and have their requests satisfied (opposite to "standard" religions, where you can only "pray and hope") ..... and atheists are sure that there is no Gods, or at least so they believe .....

So, i thoughd it was a bit strange to have a person that contemporarily know for sure that God exist, AND trust that God does not exist .....
Wow! You really know your comparative religions! Even the comparative fringe ones. It's funny that, under "pagan" there are 'trads', paths, splinter groups all the way down to little pico-groups and "solitaries" (individuals).
One could spend a lifetime trying to categorize 'em all and still be falling behind. I guess it's not worth trying, really. There are much more fun things out there to do
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:27 AM #1628
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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Wow! You really know your comparative religions! Even the comparative fringe ones. It's funny that, under "pagan" there are 'trads', paths, splinter groups all the way down to little pico-groups and "solitaries" (individuals).
One could spend a lifetime trying to categorize 'em all and still be falling behind. I guess it's not worth trying, really. There are much more fun things out there to do
LOL, no, i'm not really a "religions expert" of any sort ..... is just that one of my hobbies is to read a lot, and to search for "stranges and unusuals" facts, myths, tales, and so on ..... so, time by time, i stumble in some strange religion descriptions, too

But, i think, you're right, there are so much ones, and also so much "divisions" inside single religions, that is virtually impossible to classify exactly all the existing or existed ones .....
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:28 AM #1629
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

We Are Science Probes
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:58 AM #1630
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

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A friend of mine emailed me this little story. Enjoy


God vs Science

"Let me explain the problem science has with religion."

The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely '

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one.. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them ?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

' Yes.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains.. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so.. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

If you read it all the way through and had a smile on your face when you finished, mail to your friends and family with the title 'God vs. Science'

PS: The student was Albert Einstein.

Albert Einstein wrote a book titled 'God vs. Science' in 1921.....
This is highly inaccurate and flawed. I don't have the time to discuss it but you're trying to explain where b*h/2 (triangle surface) came from without knowing what an integral is.

Also, please point me to Einstein's book where he said he fully believed in a God. Not some quote on the Internet, I want the source (not taken out of context).
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:40 AM #1631
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Cool! Einstein's on LPF?
How did I miss that?
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Old 08-13-2010, 05:52 AM #1632
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Default Re: LPF's Religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo View Post
Also, please point me to Einstein's book where he said he fully believed in a God. Not some quote on the Internet, I want the source (not taken out of context).
I can't find any evidence that he wrote this book.
But, here is an explanation of that quote which answers your question:
He acknowledged that he believed in Spinoza's god, which is essentially that the universe itself is god. When told that others claimed that he believed in the Judeo/Christian god, he responded "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
I also grabbed this from some lame blog, but it provides more insight:
Einstein didn’t write a book titled “God vs Science” He did write a paper titled “Science and Religion” Below is a section from Wikipedia. If you want to further your religious agenda, please be intellectually honest about it.
Einstein published a paper in Nature in 1940 entitled “Science and Religion”[61] in which says that: “a person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value … regardless of whether any attempt is made to unite this content with a Divine Being, for otherwise it would not be possible to count Buddha and Spinoza as religious personalities. Accordingly a religious person is devout in the sense that he has no doubt of the significance of those super-personal objects and goals which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation … In this sense religion is the age-old endeavour of mankind to become clearly and completely conscious of these values and goals, and constantly to strengthen their effects.”
He argued that conflicts between science and religion “have all sprung from fatal errors.” “[E]ven though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other” there are “strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies … science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind … a legitimate conflict between science and religion cannot exist.” In Einstein’s view, “neither the rule of human nor Divine Will exists as an independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted … by science, for [it] can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot.” (Einstein 1940, pp. 605–607)
To me, that looks like one thing can be certain. You shouldn’t let people try to blur the lines between science and religion. Science is about fact, religion is about faith and belief. While faith and belief can be powerful things, they are, by definition, not something that can be quantified by facts. Which would mean that they have no place in a scientific argument.
It doesn't matter what humans believe, the universe is the way it is. Religion is just man's attempt at looking for guidance, placing blame, and establishing control.
Many people would be lost without it.
Others are lost within it.
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Thanks for posting that
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