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Old 12-13-2015, 09:08 PM #129
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I don't trust any politician, Trump hasn't been one and even if he says bone headed things, I trust him more. Hillary, I don't want to be a citizen of the US if she is elected, it's been bad enough with Barry.


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Old 12-13-2015, 11:12 PM #130
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Andrew once again...Yes! However, although I agree with your prescription for what needs to be done, it is obvious to many. No offense, but the problem is that the elite are powerful and will not give up this drug willingly.

I enjoy martial arts and like to watch boxing (not for the brutality, starlight) because of the physicality, but mostly because of the strategy. Ever watch a bout between two closely matched opponents? Several rounds pass without much progress and then out of nowhere a single punch briefly stuns one of the boxers. During that moment, the aggressor lands several blows that turn the fight. The match was won with that initial punch. Trump is that first punch. He is not the solution, but if he is elected he resets the landscape. By the time he leaves office, Bill will be dead from some STD and Hillery will be in a nursing home (or prison). K. Rove, R. Previous and the current crop of Republican leaders will be discredited simply due to their reduced influence. While Trump attracts the vindictive attention of the media, real statesmen will have the opportunity to be elected without the crony political maneuvering of McConnell and Ryan.

Starlight, I asked you a question and you chose not to answer it. Who do you support and how will they deal with the bankruptcy of the US government?

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The right wing is so far up religious asses they may never see the light of day again, they are demented no doubt about it. Can't mix politics and religion but they do.
Interesting. Is that so? Ever heard of Sharia? Maybe not, you poor thing. I'll make a guess...Bernie.
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Old 12-13-2015, 11:47 PM #131
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by planters View Post
Andrew once again...Yes! However, although I agree with your prescription for what needs to be done, it is obvious to many. No offense, but the problem is that the elite are powerful and will not give up this drug willingly.

I enjoy martial arts and like to watch boxing (not for the brutality, starlight) because of the physicality, but mostly because of the strategy. Ever watch a bout between two closely matched opponents? Several rounds pass without much progress and then out of nowhere a single punch briefly stuns one of the boxers. During that moment, the aggressor lands several blows that turn the fight. The match was won with that initial punch. Trump is that first punch. He is not the solution, but if he is elected he resets the landscape. By the time he leaves office, Bill will be dead from some STD and Hillery will be in a nursing home (or prison). K. Rove, R. Previous and the current crop of Republican leaders will be discredited simply due to their reduced influence. While Trump attracts the vindictive attention of the media, real statesmen will have the opportunity to be elected without the crony political maneuvering of McConnell and Ryan.
Hey planters, huge fan here.

I completely agree with you, Trump will start the pendulum swinging back in the other direction, especially if elected. He might not be the optimal candidate for some, but he could at least start economic repairs and get us back on the right track. The problem is, the government has created a large group that is dependent on them for jobs, welfare, etc. So anyone who opposes just throwing money at people is going to have a harder time getting elected.

The media will continue to tell us how extreme the right is, and how wrong their ideas are. With what they're telling us, you'd think there were only about 10% conservatives and 90% liberals, while they are actually neck and neck percentage-wise. With the government and the media working nonstop to keep America liberal, I fear that, as starlight said, it will be another democrat for sure in 2016, and if that happens we're probably eventually going to have another revolution.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:20 AM #132
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

[QUOTE=planters;1392659]Andrew once again...Yes! However, although I agree with your prescription for what needs to be done, it is obvious to many. No offense, but the problem is that the elite are powerful and will not give up this drug willingly.
/QUOTE]

What I was suggesting was in an ideal world, the one the Founding Fathers gave us as a gift leaving it to us to be ever vigilant. We have gone far too down the path of irresponsible passivity and ignorance. Combine this with the gridlock and that to say the future looks bleak is an understatement.

I guy I know works for one of our 3 letter intel agencies gave me access to a copy of what amounts to a Best of Isis video. It is my understanding that it was being used to gather intell.

If one were watching it in a theater the comment would be "wow, those beheadings look so real, so anatomically correct." You could freeze a frame and identify the bilateral common carotid and vertebral arteries. Many of the videos were the ones spoken of in the news but for the most part removed from public view: the kidnapped Egyptian Christians, a drowning, using det cord for multiple beheadings (rather imaginative I must admit,) shooting an RPG into a car full of victims, blowing up victims sitting on land mines, (again, imaginative,)shootings by automatic pistol, shooting with shotgun with slow motion forward and reverse, and the infamous Jordanian pilot burning.

The videos were shot in HD and there was a significant amount of pre- and post production work. As this was not done in Hollywood, it begs the question as to not only where but who were the brains behind all of it?

I think this much is known. When US intelligence decided to do its thing with the Arab Spring the Israeli push to get rid of Assad resulted in money and weapons being poured into the so called Free Syrian Army who are really a combination of some remaining Al Qaeda and mercinaries from various countries.

The videos production styles really have an American style signature IMO. For instance. A group of orange jump suited prisoners (Now, where would you go to get an orange jump suit?) in a cage is picked up by a crane and slowly submerged into a pool. (Could be any Hollywood executive pool.) After the cage is fully submerged, CUT TO UNDERWATER SCENE (obviously done with a dive crew) and while not that well visualized, the caged victims are drowning. CUT TO SLOW RAISING OF THE CAGE The camera pans from one victim to the next, the camera lingering on one victim zooming in to catch a reflexive gasp as white foam is expelled from the mouth. I mean this if this is not typical Hollywood...?

However, while the style may by Hollywood, the difference is that this is not FX but reality with the addition of Hollywood style.

That the US seems ultimately to have contributed to the creation of this monster is an atrocity.

Who among the jokers presently running in both parties can fix it?
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:30 AM #133
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Planters wow!!! No need to get butt hurt.
I'm not arguing just stating my opinion there is no need to get upset and start acting childish.
Sorry I didn't see the specific question you wanted answered in your paragraph of crying and I was offline for some time. Sorry I cannot (obviously lol) tell you who I'm voting for until the choices are available so again cannot tell you how they will fix America's bankruptcy problem. We will have to wait until next year or more to have this debate. Any more silly questions?
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Old 12-14-2015, 03:43 AM #134
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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I fear that, as starlight said, it will be another democrat for sure in 2016, and if that happens we're probably eventually going to have another revolution.
Agreed and a solution may lie in Europe. Notice how the stories out of Europe have decreased dramatically. Things are not getting better especially with Macedonia building a fence. I believe this is a conscious decision to quiet the rumblings of revolution. As things deteriorate there, Americans fear of the liberal, open border approach will increase.

Trump is so imperfect and bombastic and for exactly this reason, his popularity tells me just how desperate Americans are. One more serious terrorist event within this county and that's it, only an imbecile would want Bernie or Hillery at the helm. This seams a more likely scenario than some errant email where Hillery is strangling a puppy and the media will simply have to turn on her.

Quote:
Who among the jokers presently running in both parties can fix it?
As I said above, our best shot is the elevation of real statesmen that Trump's presidency could unleash. Trump's buildings are beautiful and they don't fall down. He is not a structural engineer, but his experience in choosing and working with experts in diverse areas reassures me he could cut it in the presidency. Conversely, that is the problem with Berry or Hillery. Who do they know or have they worked with? One is a community organizer who attends a raciest church and after being raised by a communist or in Indonesia...whatever then hangs around with a revolutionary from the 60's and who's closest adviser has direct ties to the Muslim brotherhood. She meets with Saul Alinsky in her youth, is involved in crooked financial deals in Arkansas and then ups her game to influence peddling as the Secretary of State. Nice.

I am flabbergasted that the Democrat field is dominated with this trash. Out of the tens of millions of Democrats in the US, these are their Olympians? And they say Trump is unqualified. Are you kidding me?
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Old 12-14-2015, 04:16 AM #135
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Starlight,

I suspect you are not used to catching just pitching?

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Any more silly questions?
No, no more silly questions, just the one you refuse to answer. Now, that you have come back on line consider your posting regarding Hitler. That is a pretty clear position to take regarding a candidate, so presumably you have thought about this a bit. Who is your favorite candidate AT THIS TIME. You are certainly free to change your position as we move forward, but let's look at the arguments to support that choice.

We both agree that America faces bankruptcy. How do you think we got here? You might be surprised when I say I despise the Republicans as much as the Democrats. I suspect that H2O and Andrew are not surprised. Do not think I support Trump because he is a Republican. I am tickled by the distress he is causing the RNC and I understand their inability to deal with him. The RNC are not Republicans just as the DNC are not Democrats. The RNC/DNC are statists. There is one ruling party with two squabbling factions. We get essentially the same government policies no matter which one is "in charge". Both are fascists. I'm serious and not just throwing out insults. Both are in the pockets of big money/corporate/ banking interests although each has a different emphasis. If you're in with government you get paid off. If, like most of us, you are out then you pay the bills.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:11 PM #136
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

To me, I suspect Trump is employing a similar strategy that Obama used to win a second term. Obama had said "If you vote, we will win." Simple strategy, get people who normally do not vote to get out and vote and vote for him.

If Trump's detractors normally vote and his supporters normally don't, then he's tapped into some new votes. He needs to determine if the numbers can offset other candidates' leads then look at the demographics and say things that likely riles them up to get them to the polls. So if only 55% of eligible voters actually vote and, let's say for example, a candidate with a 10% lead can win, then Trump (or anyone else for that matter) need to motivate roughly 5% of the remaining 45% non-voters' votes to his/her cause.

In my view since most politicians say what gets them votes rather than what their true character is made of, I'm not sure what Trump's character really is made of nor what his motivation to run really is. Since he isn't influenced by other people's money, then he doesn't necessarily owe anyone any favors. His past behavior/actions might be the best predictor at what he'd actually do if elected.

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Old 12-14-2015, 09:52 PM #137
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

We got killed here in Canada. A great Conservative leader, Stephen Harper was just ousted by "Real Change" fratboy Justin Trudeau. That was the Canadian version of "Hope and Change" you guys got in 2008.

I'm seriously considering moving to the States, but afraid of a Hillary win, in which case you guys will have it worse than us (Trudeau is a punk kid, Hillary is a criminal).

If Trump wins, we all do. I don't think he'll be able to do half of the stuff he claims, but the push toward those goals is important. We need to get people fired up to fight against this leftist shatstorm we're enduring.
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Old 12-15-2015, 02:37 AM #138
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Talking Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

LOL

This is an amusing thread.

My take, addressing several issues I saw on my way down the thread:

1) Politicians are all egomaniacs, otherwise, its a stupid job they want so bad they'd pay more to get it, than the job pays.

2) As soon as the reforms making it harder to make backroom deals (Bridges to nowhere, etc), no one had any motivation to compromise..and the government ground to a halt.

3) Intractability in order to make the other party unable to accomplish anything became a real strategy.

4) Allowing corruption to come back, the way it did before the reforms, can un-gridlock things, build those bridges to no where, keep those bases open that the audits said should be closed, waste billions in tax payers $, and allow the behemoth thing we call a government to function "normally".

5) Trump is a local boy...Atlantic City for example is in my backyard so to speak. He's a scumbag. Dishonest, unfair, gives a crap about one thing only, himself. He's in it for the ego trip, that's it. Don't think he can't be bought, or won't buy. He spends like crazy, declares bankruptcy to get out of paying for stuff, pays contractors who build his buildings half what he agreed to and tells them to sue him if they want the rest. He's not honest by any stretch of the imagination.

6) Trump is not good with money, his investments and assets are worth far less than if he's bought a normal S&P mutual fund with his inheritance instead of making bad investments with it/squandering it on "Being Trump".

7) IF something protects TRUMP, like his plane not crashing, it WILL be done well, or else. If its for anyone else, eff'm.

8) Trump has huge confidence in himself, and, is essentially media/scandal proof. He assumes that his version of reality is simply what has to be insisted upon, period. It would not matter what age or gender the sheep he was caught with was, he would own it, and insist it was his right to screw it if he wanted to. The more outrageous his statements, the more his flock cheer his anti-establishmentism, etc. He can do no wrong in his eyes.

8) Clinton is a politician's politician, and is essentially a less egotistical, albeit much much smarter, Trump. She has the most potential as a "statesman" of the rag tag bunch though...because she's the most politically savvy. So, not honest etc...just very competent.

9) Carson is a delusional nut job. He was a really good surgeon. The god complex surgeons seem to be plagued with seems to have gotten out of control. He would be calm in emergencies, and make the wrong decisions.

10) Saunders is quite rationale, but "social" in "social democracy" sounds, to most unfamiliar with the term, like communism...so, he will alienate everyone old enough to remember socialism/communism, and be acceptable to those under perhaps 30 or so, to whom "social" has nice connotations. His Gov experience is not zero, but, its mostly local.

11) Bush is a Bush. That means that he can be whacky, and its shrugged off as a bushism...but, for the right wing, he's not right ENOUGH...meaning that the republican party might consider him as center ENOUGH to perhaps be an alternative to Clinton. He's ALSO a politician's politician...after Clinton, perhaps the one with a best chance of statesmanship. Again, honesty is not a policy he's familiar with, but, he has shown some competency. He does get flummoxed when asked questions he needs to answer too many ways in the same sentence though, like when he has to pretend that he is for, and against, something at the same time in case both sides are listening...but damned if he doesn't at least TRY to lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. Hillary does it better though.

12) Chris Christy - He could have been the Trump character in this play. He's loud, bombastic, right wing, said NJ won't accept refugees, etc. He is Gov though, and has some experience, but, again, mostly local. He could be the understudy for Trump, as if Trump scares too many centrists, etc, Christy would be able to point to a bipartisan NJ experience and working across party lines.

13) Muslims I KNOW, are not in favor of sharia law. In fact, most of the muslims who LEFT places with it, left BECAUSE of it. IE: If they want to kill infidels, they're doing it all wrong. The old/new testaments BOTH contain passages about spreading the religions, and so forth, as does the koran. If you read all three, they are pretty similar.

The REAL issues, just as with Crusaders, etc, is in interpretation. The "The uncle is the rightful heir of Mohamed" guys ARE more militant, and ARE, historically, the violent ones of the bunch. Those who fled, to here, don't really feel that way though, and, just like jews or christians who only go to church on holy days, they are just not that into their religion.

Surveys in Muslim countries, compared to the rest of the world, where the responses were anonymous, indicated that in fact, IN the Sharia countries, about the same percentages of "muslims" were actually atheists, a bit higher actually. The huge difference is that they are deep deep in the closet about it, as they get killed for saying it...a large disincentive.


The Palestinians and the Jews, according to genetic tests, are essentially the same people. They are essentially like brothers fighting over their birthright.

Both have always lived there...and, in peace until the British goverment essentially said (Internally) "Um, we don't really want them to come HERE, and take jobs from our guys, marry our daughters, etc...maybe we can do that Liberia thing like they did with the Blacks?!"

So Israel was born, and the palestinians who had ALSO been there the whole time, just like the jews who'd been there the whole time, were now living in a "jewish state".

This actually was fine for many years...until the radical islamists decided that it should be a palestinian state instead.


Simplification:

And they started blowing up school buses of jewish kids, so the parents demanded more security, and then the security forces shot some people trying to blow up the kids, and the parents of the dead blow up the bus people now wanted to kill the parents of the bus people, and they've been killing each other in revenge ever since.

As its a jewish state, legally, the jews have the police and army, so, they mostly win. That makes the losers "martyred" and inspires more martyrdom.

Rich parties donate money to be used to make explosive vests, pay prizes to the families of those who martyr for the cause, and, well, all hell breaks loose.

Its really political, as ISIS is actually more about geography than Islam, whereas Al Q is more idealogical and ISIS and Al Q hate each other. Both use religion to fan their base into a red hot state...for political gains.

In the US, they're all the same to the average Joe.

Its further muddled as they find that they can manipulate the rest of the world the same way they did locally.

IE: There's not much difference, strategically, between infiltrating a police training camp, and killing from the inside, so those in charge will never trust the recruits, killing morale, and making them more likely to defect...

...and making sure to leave a refugee passport at the scene of a terrorist attack so that countries will panic, and stop allowing those trying to ESCAPE from radicals, sanctuary.

The more we stereotype muslims as terrorists, and alienate those who were originally on OUR side, the more likely the dis-empowered are to view the terrorists as representing them.

That's exactly what the extremists are going for: Get you to treat the muslims you know, in a way that makes the muslims you know like you less and less, and to stop seeing themselves as american, and to start seeing themselves as oppressed muslims.


14) NONE of the candidates will matter in most cases. President, as its come to be, is going the way of the King in England, etc.

15) The two party system was mostly the idea of the two parties, so that they have a virtual monopoly. Its time to eliminate it. The current system where the local votes get the local guy, and his position/views, elected...but that guy is not wanted by other localities, etc...so some OTHER guy that no one wants ends up in charge...is bonkers.

I don't know what will end up WORKING, but, its GOT to be better than the current BS.

The only bipartisan agreement I would expect is in a united opposition to elimination of the two party system. Both sides would come out in support of it of course while working to dismantle it.

16) I have no idea who I'm voting for yet. I always vote, because I think I can then bitch about the results at least. If I DON'T vote, I think I abdicate my right to complain if they elect someone I didn't want, etc.


Last edited by Teej; 12-15-2015 at 02:43 AM.
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:32 AM #139
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Of course this is an amusing thread. We wouldn't be perusing it if it wasn't.

Your post is so long that I will address some highlights and may return to others. This is not an indicator of the importance of a specific point.

I'll visit your comments about Israel later as it will be more of a coherent response.

Hillery is competent? There is a lot of evidence that she is very dishonest and even criminal. But what is the evidence that she is competent. And, don't tell me it's because she is not yet in jail. Because then I would have to agree with you , but that's a pretty sick standard.

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13) Muslims I KNOW, are not in favor of sharia law. In fact, most of the Muslims who LEFT places with it, left BECAUSE of it.
This is silly. If they reject Islam then OK, I'll bite. But, a very, very important subset of Muslims,the terrorists, embrace it.

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The more we stereotype muslims as terrorists, and alienate those who were originally on OUR side, the more likely the dis-empowered are to view the terrorists as representing them.
This misrepresents the problem. It is not the stereotyping that kills people. There are real terrorists. Their mode of operation is to make themselves indistinguishable from non-violent Muslims. They are forcing us to respond to the only indicator that will include them, Islam. The onus is on the nonviolent Muslims to "out them". But this is what is betraying Islam itself. They are not.

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That's exactly what the extremists are going for:
I agree, but so be it. Have you read the Koran? If not, it is a heavy read, but at this point in our history it's important. In many ways it is similar to the Bible with its "new and old parts", but it is inundated with political aspects that make it as much a political manifesto. I do not believe the West will be able to avoid a widespread and very deadly conflict with Islam, just as the world faced off with the Nazis. I think the conflict with Islam will be bloodier and the earlier it is engaged the less deadly.

Quote:
I don't know what will end up WORKING, but, its GOT to be better than the current BS.

The only bipartisan agreement I would expect is in a united opposition to elimination of the two party system.
THIS is why I support Trump. It is not Trump, it is the disruption of the DNC/RNC cabal. They both hate him.

Quote:
14) NONE of the candidates will matter in most cases. President, as its come to be, is going the way of the King in England, etc.
This is very true, but unlike a silly sports team, each candidate represents a set of positions and it is really this that we vote for.

You cant' get off the hook that easily. Who do you prefer AT THIS TIME and why? This allows us to better understand your point of view. Your choice can evolve as the campaigns progress, no problem it probably should.
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Old 12-15-2015, 11:51 AM #140
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Talking Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I want to go back to the muslim thing - IT IS about stereotyping.

For example, some Christians are skin heads who support Neo-Nazi positions, and want to overthrow the government, and have planted bombs at government buildings.

If you were say, muslim, and lived in a country where you were not familiar with Christians except for the ones who came to your country to kill your ancestors, Christians, as a group, would just be "christians".

So, lets say you went to the Middle East to work as an oil company engineer or something, and...IN that country, everyone there treated you as though you were a neo-nazi, because an important sub-set of christians were neo-nazis, after a while, you'd get sick of it.

You'd be like "Hey, I am a christian, but not a neo-nazi...those guys are all crazy fanatics". And they'd be like "Don't give me that crap, you KNOW all christians are neo-nazis even if they won't admit it, its all in the bible!"

You be like "No, my bible doesn't say that, its just how those nut jobs interpreted it for their own causes"

They'd be like "No, I read some of your bible, and you are a very very violent people".

And so forth.

Everyone gets their OWN version of their religion, but thinks everyone else's is from some sort of evil cookie cutter.




So candidates that fan the flames of ignorance, and incite hatred and distrust, ARE making things worse, not better. Its a childish and uninformed view of the world that doesn't take the actual conditions on the ground into account.

Its the sort of logic that lead to interment of the Japanese US citizens in WWII...a retarded misguided reaction to an issue.



The most successful governments in history incorporated the newly conquered peoples into their society, and made them part of it. The worst made them slaves or second class citizens, which over time, leads to alienation and a sense of oppression that leads to an uprising, etc.

Israel and the Palestinians are in that latter boat right now.....its a bloody mess.

The US, Europe, etc, if they continue to alienate muslims, will, also, over time, lead to those muslims feeling oppressed as well.

NO ONE likes to be stereotyped. Its not "Political Correctness", its avoiding political suicide.

Right now, muslims, in general, are not on the side of the terrorists. If people continue to act as though they are anyway, eventually, they will not feel like one of "us", and will start to feel like one of "them".

THAT is the objective of the terrorists, and morons play into their hands by doing just that, right on cue.

Smart people will recognize what's being done, and fix it.




The first thing needed, really, on that issue, is education. For the illiterate muslims being told what is in their koran, and manipulated into doing bad things thinking they are good things....and for the non-muslims, so that they find out that, just as they know about all sorts of branches of christianity, and Protestants and Catholics, and Episcopalians, an Lutherans, and Adventists and Born Agains, and so forth....and sub-groups within those groups, and so forth...

...the muslims also fall into many many camps. Yes, some ARE violence prone...but knowing who is who would avoid lumping them all together and attacking your allies.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Essentially: Don't attack friends.

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Old 12-15-2015, 12:38 PM #141
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

@Teej : Do you think we should open our doors to Muslim refugees who are mostly not radical extremist? Who are probably not radical extremist?

Let me ask you this, if I handed you a bowl of 500 grapes and told you that 8 of them were possibly poisoned, would you eat grapes from that bowl ?
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Old 12-15-2015, 12:52 PM #142
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Teej,

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your example. Your concept is valid, but the magnitude of the threat is monumentally different. Have you ever heard the saying "if you don't know the numbers, you don't know anything"?

Quote:
Right now, muslims, in general, are not on the side of the terrorists.
According to Pew, there are approximately 2,500,000 Muslims in the US. Half of these would consider Sharia law as a valid alternative to the US Constitution, twenty five percent approve of violence to get it. That does not mean they would perpetrate the violence, but they would be sympathetic to it. Six hundred thousand is a lot of sympathy. The recommendation to halt the rise of this number is prudent. Name calling US citizens (and candidates) who fear this threat is unfair. The threat is real and likening it to the threat that skin heads pose to the Saudis is ludicrous.

Remember the Turkish soccer match?

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Everyone gets their OWN version of their religion, but thinks everyone else's is from some sort of evil cookie cutter.
This is specious. According to this The US should ban or at lest fear most of the world religions and as your post begins, lets stay with the one world religion that over and over again is demonstrating that it is a threat.

The Koran DOES "say that". It calls for Jihad and admonishes the follower to commit violence over and over to promote it. The Koran is not theirs and likewise the Bible is not mine. These books exist on their own and the follower chooses to follow the teachings.

How about we stop expecting the West to bend over backwards to make the Muslims feel good and demand that Muslims make a much better effort to reassure the West that importing their cultural values is good for the West? This is not happening. Terrorism is just the point of the spear. Aggressive often violent confrontation between "orphans and women" and local communities is common. Look up rape statistics in Oslo.

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Smart people will recognize what's being done, and fix it.
That's why we're here.

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Old 12-15-2015, 04:11 PM #143
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

trumpo dumbo...
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Old 12-15-2015, 08:04 PM #144
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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trumpo dumbo...
This is brilliant. Who could have encapsulated the whole of political discourse any better? Oh, and by the way is Angela locked in her bunker yet? How about you dump her, demonstrate some wisdom and then come back and share it with us.
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