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Old 08-24-2016, 05:52 AM #1361
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Even in your own polls Clinton is ahead by an average of 6%. Clinton is a seasoned politician who won't lose the debates. The difference between these debates and the Republican ones is that the moderator won't be from Fox News and won't allow Trump to sidestep questions or allow him to verbally abuse the questioner. If you think the turning point in this election will be Trump's magnificent showing in the debates, I believe you are in for a surprise. Nobody uses the number of people you see at any particular rally as proof of where the electorate will place their confidence. That one day where Trump supposedly had 700 people show up was one day back in January before the conventions. There are less than 80 days left until November 8th and every time there is a poll, Clinton does better than the time before. I know there is time left, but even you must be seeing, by now, that Trump is highly unlikely to win.

Also, Clinton has raised far more money from small donations than Trump has, and the news today was when was Trump going to turn over the Republican part of the money he's raised to the RNC for their down ballot candidates? He managed to raise $37 million, but so far has kept it all. The RNC is getting more and more disgusted with Trump.


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Old 08-24-2016, 06:41 AM #1362
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
Even in your own polls Clinton is ahead by an average of 6%. Clinton is a seasoned politician who won't lose the debates. The difference between these debates and the Republican ones is that the moderator won't be from Fox News and won't allow Trump to sidestep questions or allow him to verbally abuse the questioner. If you think the turning point in this election will be Trump's magnificent showing in the debates, I believe you are in for a surprise. Nobody uses the number of people you see at any particular rally as proof of where the electorate will place their confidence. That one day where Trump supposedly had 700 people show up was one day back in January before the conventions. There are less than 80 days left until November 8th and every time there is a poll, Clinton does better than the time before. I know there is time left, but even you must be seeing, by now, that Trump is highly unlikely to win.

Also, Clinton has raised far more money from small donations than Trump has, and the news today was when was Trump going to turn over the Republican part of the money he's raised to the RNC for their down ballot candidates? He managed to raise $37 million, but so far has kept it all. The RNC is getting more and more disgusted with Trump.
You raise a good point but the only way to be certain is to wait until the debates actually happen, until then talk is talk. But I will say this, we have had nothing but Clintons and Bushes in the white house from 1989 to 2009, that is 20 years of two families and you people want an extra 4 to 8 years to make it close to 30 years of the same families? I thought this was a democracy, apparently its a dynasty and this makes me so sick words cannot express how I feel. Please for the love of god do not vote any more Bushes or Clintons.

Last edited by HydroSean; 08-24-2016 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:44 AM #1363
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

There might be a silver lining to either Hillary or Trump getting in office, either of them might piss people off so much we finally get people to rise up and stop the abuses of power and corruption in Washington DC. Hillary would more likely bring it on by being corrupt, Trump, I'm not so sure of, he could do that too, but he might actually be an arse to congress and start cleaning up the their ways. I'd like to see every law they pass apply to them too, that they also are required to use the same medical insurance system and limit their terms. If it is good for the president to have term limits, why they hell not them too?
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:51 AM #1364
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
There might be a silver lining to either Hillary or Trump getting in office, either of them might piss people off so much we finally get people to rise up and stop the abuses of power and corruption in Washington DC. Hillary would more likely bring it on by being corrupt, Trump, I'm not so sure of, he could do that too, but he might actually be an arse to congress and start cleaning up the their ways. I'd like to see every law they pass apply to them too, that they also are required to use the same medical insurance system and limit their terms. If it is good for the president to have term limits, why they hell not them too?
Wait someone tell me why Clinton didn't go to jail for felony destruction of evidence?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1519
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:54 AM #1365
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Some believe Obama is setting everything up to make an election impossible with her going to jail (I hope, but doubt that will happen) and Trump miffing off the establishment so much he is able to squeeze into extending his stay in office, but to do that, he needs something more, some other huge emergency which he could push into happening too. I would not put any of that past that scoundrel.
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:57 AM #1366
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

@HydroSean The problem with your assertion is that there has only been one Clinton in the White House. Bush 2 would never have happened if the SCOTUS hadn't given him the election in 2000. Gore won the popular vote and Florida was within 200 votes of going to Gore when it was stopped by the Republicans on the court. If for no other reason than to change the makeup of the SCOTUS we can't have a Trump presidency, but there are so many more important reasons than that to keep Trump from going to the White House. He is an egotistical megalomaniac with delusions of grandeur. Until just recently he wouldn't even take the counsel of the RNC and he is only doing it now because there is nowhere for him to go but up. He still has the same 30% that got him nominated and no more.
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Old 08-24-2016, 06:58 AM #1367
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Some believe Obama is setting everything up to make an election impossible with her going to jail (I hope, but doubt that will happen) and Trump miffing off the establishment so much he is able to squeeze into extending his stay in office, but to do that, he needs something more, some other huge emergency which he could push into happening too. I would not put any of that past that scoundrel.
I think you got Obama and Trump backwards, plus Obama loves Clinton because she will uphold obamacare and Obama will continue to get millions from insurance companies. Trump plans to repeal and replace obamacare with a veteran care program that helps american veterans healthcare more.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:33 AM #1368
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Either way I think they will both cause an uprising and then push down due to their corruption and or abuses. All governments get out of hand, in time, even those with a Constitution, it appears.
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Old 08-24-2016, 10:50 AM #1369
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

If "elected" Hillary may use her magic pen and phone to circumvent the law making process and trample the Constitution but I won't obey unconstitutional laws that violate the Bill of Rights and I won't be alone, people are sick of that above the law criminal, if not for the complicate justice department she would have been charged and convicted, the idea that she is above the law in plain view, but we have to obey her royal decrees that violate our Constitution is not going to sit well with a large percentage of the nation.

This is what revolutions are made of and when enough people take part in civil disobedience the system can't maintain the rule of law, real change will be forced, and/or compromises make in a hurry, this can start a chain reaction in a divided nation, black lives matter will want to riot and loot for any reason at all. Things could get ugly and the forces ( military/police ) will side with those civil disrobements who share a legitimate cause with them and who are not looting and taking advantage of a situation.

Will special homeland security thugs and false flag operatives try to throw a monkey wrench into the gears, sure, but once the camels back breaks there will be no stopping it, and it's about time for a restart, otherwise we will be forced into war as our economy tanks to bolster it's viability.

If people are not pushed over the edge I would not be surprised to see Clinton take us to war with Russia over the vast Syrian natural energy resources and more importantly the control of those recourses.

Oh and at the debates Clinton will side step questions that she doesn't like and talk about something else just like Obama did, he simply ignored the question and rambled on about what ever point he wanted to harp on.

The honesty and trustworthiness of our elected officials is a sad sad joke that's been that way and getting worse for a long while, how much will people tolerate before they have had enough? It depends on how much and how fast Clinton attempts to tighten the grip of tyranny.

As for the 1st and 2nd amendment I am not willing to give an inch, I may be caged or killed early on, but I will not comply with unconstitutional illegal invalid tyrannical BS laws.

Thomas Jefferson once said that it is the citizens duty to disobey unconstitutional laws, civil disobedience when warranted and done in mass is a valid part of our system, that does not include looting or the burning of businesses like the black lives matter rabble lust for, but steadfast unified refusal to obey unconstitutional laws that should not have been passed in the first place by elected officials who swore an oath of office to defend our constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic.

We are reaching the point where the criminal is about to be "elected" to the highest office in our land.
Obama is responsible for racial unrest, he ginned up discontent pitting minorities against police when any good leader would have been the voice of calm and reassurance that changes would be made to insure fair and equitable treatment, but city mayors were told " if they want to riot let them riot, if they want to destroy let them destroy."

The Baltimore Mayor slipped up and repeated orders she got from on high, then simply denied what she said. This reeks of treason, again people are manipulated for political gain, I am not fooled and I will not give up my rights to these manipulating tyrants.

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Old 08-24-2016, 11:14 AM #1370
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

If she gets elected I'm just hoping she continues to be a criminal and gets slapped down hard with an impeachment.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:05 PM #1371
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

History would disagree with you. There have been times in my life and many before when there were situations that seemed to a small part of the people that this government was taking not only their constitutional rights, but also their god given rights as well. The best example was in 1860 when the Confederate States of America thought that seceding from the union would be a formality and they would win their rights to own people like their recent ancestors had. But, this revolution was defeated and the south paid a very heavy price for their "revolution". Trump has made this country even more divided than it was before he decided to run and if his followers try to revolt, they may find the cost to be much higher than they thought it could be. I hear statements like "I would rather die than give up my constitutional and god given rights", but the fact of the matter is you don't know what your death and the deaths of your family would feel like until you are faced with it. These arguments that you seem to think will lead to revolution would certainly cost you much more than you think it would. Trump has done this to the public narrative in this country by using name calling like criminal Hillary and rigged elections. I would look to history before you start something you certainly can't finish.
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:11 PM #1372
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Never before in the history of this government have people been so aware of the corruption going on and more and more of us are becoming less and less patient, am I wrong?
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:37 PM #1373
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

First of all you have used the Trump nomenclature of calling Clinton a criminal when she hasn't actually violated any laws. I've spent hours trying to make this point with RedCowboy, but he doesn't want to hear it. If you were to read the inflammatory rhetoric of southern separatists prior to the 1860 election you would see very close parallels of speech when southern radicals swore to secede if Lincoln was elected. And they believed that their rights were being infringed upon even more so than now. Lincoln hadn't actually done anything, but they decided to act anyway. When Clinton is elected I don't expect her to do anything that would prompt people to revolt, unless like Lincoln, her election alone is enough. Then you might find the cost of revolution to be much higher than you thought it to be. These are historical parallels that I am making. The rhetoric is very similar indeed. It is a continuation of Republicans who have tried to delegitimize Bill Clinton's elections and the same when Obama was elected. They started in on Clinton from the beginning of his first term and continued until they impeached, but couldn't convict him in the Senate. Republicans have tried the same with Obama, but his poll numbers are above 52% which is high for a president at the end of his last term.
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Old 08-24-2016, 08:23 PM #1374
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

This election is rather odd in terms of the sheer dis-likeability ratings of the candidates. Looking back I can't remember such a vile election where both candidates were morally disgusting to me. There's always been at least one 'decent' option. Generally speaking, our elections have been about picking the lesser of two evils. In this election it's hard to even say who the lesser evil is.

A Trump win would represent a victory for fear/bigotry, and show that the American people were easily suckered by an obnoxious man who did nothing but promise outrageous things with nothing to back them up. Trump is great at saying what his base wants to hear.
"Build a wall and make Mexico pay for it"
"Make America Great Again"
"Put the coal miners back to work"
"Destroy ISIS"
"Make GOOD deals for Americans"

What's lacking is any form of substance behind these bold slogans. HOW would they get done? What are the particulars? What would the social and economic consequences be? How would these actions impact our global standing?

A Hillary win would represent a big victory for corruption. IMO Hillary IS corruption incarnate. She's probably more qualified to run the country than Trump, but her victory would send the message that corruption works and has no consequences. The whole Democratic nomination process was crooked right from the start. It's as if Hillary was simply "the chosen one" and the system was NEVER gonna let her lose to Bernie. From the super delegate shenanigans to voter suppression in NY, she has had considerable unfair advantages over the competition.

I also struggle to believe that she really cares about anybody or anything other than her own ego. Does she actually care about the people of this country, or does she just want the personal accomplishment of being president? Compare her campaign style to Bernie's. Bernie had huge public rallies full of lively young people. The air was filled with passion and everybody genuinely cared about improving the state of our country. Hillary had private $10,000 per plate dinner speeches where she met with wealthy donors. I feel like she'll just do whatever benefits her connections once elected.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:34 PM #1375
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Yes, Clinton never was my first choice for a presidential candidate. I would have rather had Bernie as I voted for him in the primaries. The super delegate part of the Democratic nomination process has been around for a very long time. I think it's time for a change here as well, but will have to wait for the next election. Unfortunately, we have the choices we have been given and it does seem to be an election of the lesser of two evils. I have listened to both candidates and believe that Clinton is the lesser of these two bad choices as much, but not all, of her bad publicity is brought to us by the Republican's super PACs that have tried to delegitimize every Democratic president since Carter. They have failed miserably with Obama, but have managed to tarnish the appearance of his record with the constant accusations of him not being born in this country and his religion as being Muslim. Both of these are false. And, some of the accusations against Clinton are also false. I think she has used poor judgement in her appearance of impropriety from the Foundation set up by her family, though the Bush's Foundation has done all the same things and has never had the scrutiny that the Clinton's has had. It seems that if you sling enough mud, something will stick, at least for some people. If Republicans wish to be relevant in future presidential elections they will need to do something about their base, which has become very divisive and unyielding to popular views. Remember that Trump was brought to us by the RNC. I truly doubt Clinton will do anything to cause a revolt, short of just being elected.

As far as the voter suppression in the NY primaries, we have the same thing in Washington State, where if you don't vote in the previous election, you must call the voter registration office to get a ballot for the next election or primary. Since I vote in all elections and primaries, it hasn't been an issue for me. I don't know if anyone was illegitimately removed from the NY primaries, but it seems that the state attorney general is investigating it and should be able to come up with a definitive answer. If anyone was removed this way, it should bring criminal charges against anyone involved. They do have a particularly early deadline to register, but that seems like a state issue, unless it has discriminated against a particular voting population. Republican States have tried to discriminate against minority voters in many states where they hold the legislature. For the most part, these laws have been overturned by the courts.


Edit: The Hill, today reported that Trump still refuses to release any of his tax returns even tough Clinton has released the last 9 years, her running mate released the last 10 and even Pence has said he will release his last 10 years of tax returns. Eric Trump said it would be foolish for his father to release his returns as they would not help in his bid for president and he claimed that the returns tell people nothing that they can't learn from what his father owns; buildings, golf courses and rental properties.

Reuters reported today that if the election were held today that Clinton would most likely win as she has a huge advantage in the poll numbers, as Reuters most recent poll put Clinton ahead by 6% overall. The Reuters/Ipsos poll is held weekly in all states with a sample of 16,000 likely voters being surveyed and the likelyhood of the respondent's turnout being weighted. Even if all white people voted and only half the number of blacks and Hispanics that turned out in 2012 did so now, Trump would still lose. According to this poll, Clinton would win 378 electoral votes and Trump a paltry 159. There is always time for an October surprise said Reuters, but it would have to be something new and very large to overcome the continuing growing lead Clinton has in this election. Trumps support, it seems remains with the people who got him the nomination and among those people are quite a few who have not turned out in past elections. His support among voters remains at 30%. It hasn't changed since the conventions. Of course, 30% of the electorate didn't get him the nomination. It was a far small number, but among the 30% who do support him are a significant number of people who don't turn out.
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Old 08-25-2016, 02:00 AM #1376
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

We are being kept divided for a reason, as a unified America we would never stand for this blatant corruption and grotesque squandering of our collective labors by our supposed civil servants.

The political elite and ultra wealthy will always be in control behind the curtains while we play pick 1 of 2. We need to pick us!

Even though we stand divided we can demand our basic rights, and believe me when I say our Islamic integration will be a united front, already I am hearing about sharia law in America.

We had better put our differences aside and protect our Bill of Rights because what lays ahead will be one of our biggest test yet, and we need at least some common ground.

As for the risk and cost they are higher as the numbers of people standing become lower.
When everyone stands there is no risk, there is no fight, no horrible cost.

We are divided but as far as our rights we must stay united.

We must keep our freedom of speech at any cost or we will all become slaves.
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