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Old 05-04-2016, 08:44 PM #561
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I admit that's a subjective view on my part. Hillary is corrupt, and horrible in the traditional sense.

Trump, is not corrupt in the sense that he is open about his actions and views, but he has said some awfully bad, and at times downright stupid things. As for being horrible, IMO, knowingly undertaking an enterprise solely for financial gain through the suffering of others, is bad. He's no worse than most of wallstreet in that regard, but in my view that does make him a horrible choice to wield presidential power.


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Old 05-04-2016, 09:15 PM #562
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

The American people are supposed to at least believe that the rule of law exists and that none are above the rules, but now that Barry has done so much damage we will see a rough start to 2017 regardless of who wins.

People will suffer for what Barry has done to weaken us, it used to be that once it was decided that was it, the fair vote was counted fairly and we must all accept it, not like it, but accept it, but this time we will see riots either way.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:35 PM #563
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

That there's even a question of validity when it comes to votes being counted is absurd. Yet even now in the primaries there have been many reports of voter fraud.

It's crazy that in this day and age we do not have a way to vote online, and these issues still persist.

Especially when one considers how much money is spent on election stations, and the equipment there.

I'd love to see a bill, from either party, from any candidate, for a new amendment.

Introduce a new national holiday. Voting Day. Mandatory day off. Mandate to vote, and failure to vote punishable by a fine of $500.

Option to vote remotely, electronically or by mail, and 30 day grace period. Add abstain option, and have all votes take place on this day, for city, state, and county elections. Must have SS

Carrot. Day off. Stick. $500 fine.
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:43 PM #564
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I would like a hand counted paper ballot, with reps from each side present, each voter drops a red or blue card in the boxes and they are double hand counted.
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Old 05-04-2016, 10:56 PM #565
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Trump, is not corrupt in the sense that he is open about his actions and views, but he has said some awfully bad, and at times downright stupid things. As for being horrible, IMO, knowingly undertaking an enterprise solely for financial gain through the suffering of others, is bad.
This too is very subjective. I'd call it indefensible unless you can provide some proof that he knowingly initiated a project INTENDING others to suffer. Come on.

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none are above the rules, but now that Barry has done so much damage
He certainly has done a lot, but I think the trophy in this widespread Washington contest has to go to the Clintons. They have achieved incredible wealth and power while brazenly ignoring rules and breaking laws. Their success has been made possible by associating themselves with the worst people around and because there are so many stupid, stupid Democrats.
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Old 05-05-2016, 05:32 PM #566
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by planters View Post
This too is very subjective. I'd call it indefensible unless you can provide some proof that he knowingly initiated a project INTENDING others to suffer. Come on.
Intent is also extremely subjective. To me it doesn't matter if he intended to hurt people, and do so intentionally, as it does that he did hurt people, and it should have been easy to see that outcome.

Trump AC Casino bankruptcies, trump tower tampa, and trump university are three that come to mind, where it should have been obvious from the start people would end up hurt.

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Old 05-05-2016, 06:55 PM #567
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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undertaking an enterprise solely for financial gain through the suffering of others
This suggests intent. You may not see it that way, but you say intent is subjective. That is not true. Our opinion about his intent is subjective, but he either intended or didn't intend to hurt people.

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Trump AC Casino bankruptcies, trump tower tampa, and trump university are three that come to mind, where it should have been obvious from the start people would end up hurt.
"obvious from the start" is extremely subjective and may in fact be completely untrue. With all these ventures there were winners and losers.

It is clear you don't like Trump, but in the real world it is either him or Hillary. Why spend so much time with him? You're not actually considering voting for her, are you?
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:06 PM #568
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

If those are the only two choices I will probably abstain, barring new developments. I really don't like either of them.

Intent is in the mind of the individual, and can be guessed at, but is never a certainty.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:16 PM #569
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Well I'm gonna likely have no choice but to vote Trump. Not because I particularly like him, but he's still better than Hillary.
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Old 05-05-2016, 07:41 PM #570
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

The problem is, Trump can crash the system. Hillary is a known quantity, she comes to power, things pretty much stay the same. Trump on the other hand could do immense damage. Talk about a douche and turd sandwich.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:14 PM #571
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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The problem is, Trump can crash the system. Hillary is a known quantity,
Trump can also save the system. However, in the real world and with all he institutional inertia in Washington, I don't think either candidate has enough power to do huge things, good or bad. Many Americans, myself included, despise Obama, yet whether his actions were the result of incompetence or a vindictive hatred of America, we are still here. It is true that America is doing worse since Obama took power, but so is Europe.

The current leadership in Washington and Europe has to go! Either this or we are looking at full blown war with Islam within a generation and we will be so enfeebled that we will LOOSE!

Hillary may be more familiar, but she is really, really bad. If she only continues the decline that we have under Obama, I think we will be lucky. Her blatant and the word blatant is important here, disregard for the law does not need to be limited to her foundation and the emails. What about civil liberties? I know what I could accomplish with control of the IRS and the NSA. Remember how she treated the women who Bill attacked? I am not a hide in the sewer pipe in the back yard type of prepper, but this woman and access to the power of the federal government has me listening for black helicopters.
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Old 05-05-2016, 08:34 PM #572
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

we're not worth the helicopter fuel expenses.

The leadership didn't get there spontaneously, and it won't simply disappear with trump either. Nor is war counter to their interests... war is extremely profitable.

Though we differ on some big issues, I do understand where you're coming from.

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Old 05-05-2016, 08:57 PM #573
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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we're not worth the helicopter fuel expenses.

Speak for your self But seriously, that is the sole defense. Any possibility that would limit such tyranny will be swiftly dealt with. There would be no hope short of an asteroid. We have little time to derail this and that is why When you mention that Trump could crash the system, I don't deny it.

I'm not even sure I oppose it.
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Old 05-06-2016, 12:34 AM #574
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Hillary is tyranny, her and Bill stole the curtains and silver wear on their way out last time, how is she even in this?

The fact Barry got re elected bothers me something awful.

We will see states divided, areas divided and a full on dictatorship, Hillary will drive the death nails into our freedom and people will live under control.

You will have to go in for your Obamacare medical evaluation, you will pay fines, you will be told more and more what you can and cant do.

People working 60 hour weeks will need food stamps, this is hard to believe it's even happening.

I won't believe it if Hillary is elected, it will have to be fraud, the American people will have to take our freedom back at some point because Hillary will create a dictatorship by executive order, and I would not be surprised if the supreme court decides against the constitution every single time.

This is beyond serious, expect Chinese factory cities to spring up in America, we are already shutting down our own infrastructure, lead smelters, oil refiners, coal producers, we are being destroyed from within.

How are we letting this happen?
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:05 AM #575
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Jeez, America really is turning into a 3rd world country. Did you know we pay the most for healthcare out of any country, yet we are ranked like 40th in terms of healthcare quality? Did you also know our infrastructure is rated at a "D" in terms of overall quality? Did you know not only Flint, Michigan but 10 other major cities lack clean drinking water?

Don't see how we can still refer to the US as a 1st world country anymore. What a joke, and the other countries are without a doubt laughing at how stupid we are arguing over which bathroom people can use?!?! What?!?!?

-Alex
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:14 AM #576
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

We're really not a free people at all and haven't been for a long time. Our government is nearly completely taken over by big $$ special interests. Our legislators basically live in a bubble and have no idea what normal people need to deal with.

We're the free country with the biggest prison population in the world. More so than 'unfree' countries such as china with 4x our population. Private prisons make big money warehousing our citizens and prison labor is used to make goods which are then sold. Modern day slavery in a nutshell. A huge amount of our prisoners are incarcerated for nonviolent drug crimes.

We have one of the highest amounts of citizens killed by law enforcement in the world.(Maybe the highest). Police shooting unarmed citizens left and right for pulling their pants up and stuff like that. Very little, if any accountability for these cases.

SWAT can kick in your door in the middle of the night with impunity over the suspicion that you were growing an illogically prohibited plant in your house. They'll shoot your pets and hold your family at gunpoint while ransacking everything looking for the demon weed. If they got bad intel and raided the wrong house they don't personally pay for it. The city does. If they do find a grow they'll try to take everything from the owner in the name of civil forfeiture. Gotta prove you didn't buy everything you own with drug money.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...did-last-year/
Taken - The New Yorker

The war on (People who use certain)drugs has more or less turned our forth amendment rights into used toilet paper.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how...cid=spartandhp
Drug sniffing dogs have more rights than you do and they're frequently wrong. How does that feel?

https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2013/0...-tenaha-texas/
We have towns were the cops are basically highway bandits with badges who rob passerby.

We have a government that's actively trying to spy on our people in the name of preventing terror. Now they wanna force tech companies to lower their encryption standards so the government can get in. Guess what? Hackers can do if they do that.
Burr-Feinstein encryption bill is officially here in all its scary glory | TechCrunch

The gun grabbers are actively on the move and won't rest until our 2nd amendment has been decimated like the fourth. Reasonable restrictions? Ammo taxes? Registration? Confiscation of assault weapons(Despite the fact that they're used in a very insignificant amount of crimes)? Where does it end? The 2nd says "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED", and yet there are states like NY/Cali/MD/CT etc where gun rights are in the toilet.

These are the people who want to crush and strangle the life out of our rights one by one. If they get everything they want we'll all be left unarmed, driving our govt mandated fuel efficient cars, and not be able to do anything in our free time other than watch reality TV and play video games. Any hobbies with the potential to be dangerous shall be banned. Just look at the recent democratic debate. Half of the discussion was Hillary attacking Bernie for not being anti-gun enough. They wanna make gun sellers financially liable when their products are misused. Makes about as much sense as suing ford because somebody got drunk and drove their mustang into a school bus. If they make this reality they won't even need to ban guns. There won't be a company out there willing to produce guns for the public.
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Last edited by Razako; 05-06-2016 at 01:16 AM.
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