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Old 02-23-2016, 09:16 PM #385
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by diachi View Post
At least Trump seems honest about his position, even if I don't agree with it.
Hitler was also honest with is position...


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Old 02-23-2016, 09:43 PM #386
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Hitler was also honest with is position...
Right. Honesty is obviously something we'd rather avoid.
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Old 02-23-2016, 09:45 PM #387
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Hitler was also honest with is position...
Yes, and he made drastic improvements in Germany. Well, at least until WWII. I'd have probably supported Hitler up until that point had I lived there at that time, I can certainly understand why so many Germans did. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

Margret Thatcher was also honest with her position, but she could hardly be compared to Hitler. Although us Scots sometimes like to think she was worse ...
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:09 PM #388
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

It's not that honesty is to be avoided, not at all, just pointing out that going with a candidate because "he says it like it is" with really no proven track record on anything except entertainment, is kind of dangerous.

And there is a candidate that's also been extremely candid and open... and consistent for several decades.

Edit: I read quite a bit about Hitler's rise, and yes, for anyone not Jewish he must have seemed like a superman, who just got things done. Sure high-sight is 20/20, but it would be foolish to not take note of history.

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Old 02-23-2016, 10:34 PM #389
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
It's not that honesty is to be avoided, not at all, just pointing out that going with a candidate because "he says it like it is" with really no proven track record on anything except entertainment, is kind of dangerous.

And there is a candidate that's also been extremely candid and open... and consistent for several decades.

Edit: I read quite a bit about Hitler's rise, and yes, for anyone not Jewish he must have seemed like a superman, who just got things done. Sure high-sight is 20/20, but it would be foolish to not take note of history.


Oh no, I agree! Just because he says it how it is doesn't mean he'd make a good President, but at the very least, you'd know where you stand with him and that's better than someone who lies and cheats and plots.

If it were up to me I'd see Sanders get elected - he seems like the best choice given his (fairly long) track record. Plus I'm rather liberal, so naturally I'd go with a liberal candidate. I assume that's who you were talking about?

But, if it comes down to just Clinton and Trump, I think I'd actually rather see Trump in office. Just because I like to know where I stand with people, even if I don't like them or their opinions. Everything I've seen about Clinton tells me that she is a self-serving liar and I can't support someone like that even if they have the exact same opinions as me.

I know I don't live in the States but as I said earlier; the outcome of this election will have an effect around the globe. Given that I'm next door to you guys I have to take an interest.
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Old 02-23-2016, 10:51 PM #390
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Yes, I was talking about Sanders. To me he is the only rational choice. I guess I'm just somewhat bothered by the constant tells it how it is refrain when there is another candidate who is literally doing the same exact thing, and has a good track record.

I'm honestly not so sure about Clinton VS Trump. On the one hand I agree wholeheartedly, Clinton is a for sale, self serving liar. On the other hand, I don't know that Trump is any better where actions, and not just rhetoric are concerned.

Personally I believe Trump ran originally to insure Clinton's eventual victory, since she was the sole seriously taken democratic contender, and any candidate that took away from other republicans would insure her victory. Two things didn't play out as planned... Trump turned out to be far more popular than expected, and Sanders, far more resilient.

When it's over, I do expect Clinton with be president... much as I dislike it.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:04 PM #391
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Yes, I was talking about Sanders. To me he is the only rational choice. I guess I'm just somewhat bothered by the constant tells it how it is refrain when there is another candidate who is literally doing the same exact thing, and has a good track record.

I'm honestly not so sure about Clinton VS Trump. On the one hand I agree wholeheartedly, Clinton is a for sale, self serving liar. On the other hand, I don't know that Trump is any better where actions, and not just rhetoric are concerned.

Personally I believe Trump ran originally to insure Clinton's eventual victory, since she was the sole seriously taken democratic contender, and any candidate that took away from other republicans would insure her victory. Two things didn't play out as planned... Trump turned out to be far more popular than expected, and Sanders, far more resilient.

When it's over, I do expect Clinton with be president... much as I dislike it.

Yes, Sanders is by far the best choice (at least if you're liberal...), and he is doing well at the moment by the look of things. Governments around the world need more like him. Doesn't matter if they are left or right wing - honest politicians with a proven track record are few and far between it seems!

I watched an interview with Trump the other day. He seemed genuine - maybe he's just a really good liar. But he answered questions directly and didn't try to deflect them or change the subject. Instead he explained his position, had a discussion and then proceeded with the interview. All very calm and professional. Plus, I don't imagine he'd be so easy to buy seeing as he's already worth several billion. Though everyone has their price. That said, Sanders comes across the same way and has the track record to back it up. Doesn't seem like he could be easily paid off either.

I've heard that "Have Trump run to make Clinton look good" idea before, and that certainly seems plausible. I don't think anyone expected him to be as popular as he is though.

If Clinton wins I might need to join the "preppers"...
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:36 PM #392
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I'd like to give Trump a shot, but afraid someone else might have that same idea, as happened to Kennedy.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:38 PM #393
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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I'd like to give Trump a shot, but afraid someone else might have that same idea, as happened to Kennedy.

Yeah ... I had the same concern.
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Old 02-24-2016, 12:30 AM #394
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Yes, Sanders is by far the best choice (at least if you're liberal...), and he is doing well at the moment by the look of things.
He is a socialist. You really want socialism? Socialism is theft. It promotes mediocrity. It attracts illegal immigrants and viscous "refugees". The Nazis were socialists. He will probably be beaten within two weeks if she isn't indited. What a joke!

Quote:
I'd like to give Trump a shot, but afraid someone else might have that same idea, as happened to Kennedy.
All he needs to do is select Cruz as VP in order to assure a long life.

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I don't think anyone expected him to be as popular as he is though.
That is why the media has been shown to have no clothes. He is popular because so many Americans agree with him on so many points even though the elites, the celebrities, the intellectual morons in academia have been telling us how wrong and stupid we all are. They can insult him and by extension us, all they want and it just reinforces our resolve and makes us even angrier. Do I seem stupid, uneducated or uninformed? I hope not. I support him, not because he is perfect , but because he is the best, available choice to promote my interests.
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:01 AM #395
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I've noticed the more people who choose to support Trump, the more the bought and paid for mainstream media slings mud at him. That just proves to me we need him, he's a good start, certainly better than Bernie or Hillary and I don't care whether rep, dem, or liberal.
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:28 AM #396
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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All kidding aside, do any of these candidates really have a chance of truly changing anything?
As I have said several times before, Trump is a start. He is a catalyst. If he wins, then other candidates for Congress and as Governors will be encouraged to run against the media and the party goons and appeal to the people directly. This, and not Trump himself, is what I believe scares the elite the most. This could actually accelerate if he actually BUILDS A WALL and proves that a resurrection of America is not impossible, that the criticisms are specious and that what seems true is actually true.

Eighty thousand pages of tax code? How the hell did we get here? It's like a Kafka horror story. It needs to end and there is a deep in the bones realization by most Americans that this is it. If we don't get this under control we'er dead or we will have no choice but to KILL them. No one wants to go down that road.

Trump is the beginning.

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Old 02-24-2016, 04:31 AM #397
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I second that! that's what it is, this is our best chance right now.

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Old 02-24-2016, 04:50 PM #398
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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He is a socialist. You really want socialism? Socialism is theft. It promotes mediocrity. It attracts illegal immigrants and viscous "refugees". The Nazis were socialists. He will probably be beaten within two weeks if she isn't indited. What a joke!
Have you actually listened to what he's said? The changes he's proposed? What with regards to "socialism" he would like to emulate from other countries?

The way you react, you might as well associate democracy with North Korea. It is after all the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Incidentally, elections are held there regularly, and over 100% of their population participates.
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Old 02-24-2016, 05:32 PM #399
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Have you actually listened to what he's said? The changes he's proposed?
Yes,I have. It IS socialism. He proudly admits that and his centralized redistribution of wealth/money/resources is classic socialism. I agree with him that the super-wealthy often do not contribute in proportion to their wealth, but where this is most egregious is where they do so because of their access to governmental power. Congressional insider trading, millions in pay off "speeches", the FED's control of monetary policy, the revolving door for lobbyists are all examples of government elites that benefit from the huge government impact on our society. A sports millionaire or Zuckerberg may have disagreeable political views, but their wealth, no matter how great, is generated by people willingly wanting what they have to sell. They should not be punished with 90% tax rates to carry others who are unable or unwilling to carry themselves.

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The way you react, you might as well associate democracy with North Korea. It is after all the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
I haven't addressed Democracy. Although I have addressed freedom and that has almost nothing to do with N. Korea.

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Old 02-24-2016, 06:08 PM #400
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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I agree with him that the super-wealthy often do not contribute in proportion to their wealth, but where this is most egregious is where they do so because of their access to governmental power. Congressional insider trading, millions in pay off "speeches", the FED's control of monetary policy, the revolving door for lobbyists are all examples of government elites that benefit from the huge government impact on our society.
All things that he opposes, hasn't participated in, or would have no direct oversight on.

Nor is he out to "punish [... the rich...] with 90% tax rates". It's not that the well off, of the rich, or the wealthy aren't paying their fair share.

It's the obscenely rich, AND corporations. We're not talking about small companies either, but giants, and companies like say BP, who are very profitable, receive massive subsidies, and pay virtually no taxes through profit shifting, and write offs.
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