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Old 12-13-2016, 04:37 AM #2593
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Smog in China is that bad. The amount of particulates in the air there in some towns is just absurd. It is so bad there at times that I have to wonder whether it's some Machiavellian scheme for population control, though their population has been on the decline for some time.

Regarding emissions, US has not been #1 for a little while now, and China's demand for energy is growing. Nor are most of the emissions due to industry itself. They are far more so the byproduct of energy generation.

Infographic: What Do Your Country's Emissions Look Like? | World Resources Institute


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Old 12-13-2016, 06:07 PM #2594
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Unhappy Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by lazerman121 View Post
I really find that hard to believe There smog is at apocalyptic levels.

Edit: A quick search came across this


Edit again -_-


that chart is from 1850 to 2011. So its heavily skewed. China was not even industrialized in 1850.
Right... Good point.. Actually the cultural revolution was (the start of) mass industrialization across China. So yes the data sample can't take the period into a greater consideration. What is happening now in terms of air pollution is simply on a horrific scale.
of smog.. I didn't believe it until I had to make a landing in PRC. You could literally smell the sulphur and taste the metallicness of the air.
We arrived during a nominal smog day We made a short refuelling stop on our way down to visit family in Bangkok back in Dec.2012.
The windows of the plane were covered in grey soot from all the coal fired power plants in a short time. Disgusting!!
if that was a "nominal" smog day I would hate to see a bad smog day..
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Old 12-13-2016, 06:53 PM #2595
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

The closest analogy to heavy smog day, is not so heavy fog. Limited visibility, but more of a muddy/red color as opposed to the clean white of fog, and whereas fog doesn't really make it any harder to breathe, the smog does. In the US quite a bit of publicity went to miner's lung, black lung disease, and exposure to asbestos. What is happening in China now, while maybe not quite as acute, is far far more massive, and may well be the biggest threat china itself will face, where it's own prosperity is concerned. While huge, even their population is not unlimited, and at some point they will have to deal with the consequences.
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Old 12-13-2016, 08:34 PM #2596
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Regarding emissions, US has not been #1 for a little while now, and China's demand for energy is growing. Nor are most of the emissions due to industry itself. They are far more so the byproduct of energy generation.
Infographic: What Do Your Country's Emissions Look Like? | World Resources Institute
I thought I read that most of the world's methane and greenhouse gasses were caused by livestock.

I am a meat eater for sure. I just did a quick google search. I hate to link to PETA but Meat and the Environment | Animals Used for Food | The Issues | PETA
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Old 12-13-2016, 08:44 PM #2597
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by Seoul_lasers View Post
Right... Good point.. Actually the cultural revolution was (the start of) mass industrialization across China. So yes the data sample can't take the period into a greater consideration. What is happening now in terms of air pollution is simply on a horrific scale.
of smog.. I didn't believe it until I had to make a landing in PRC. You could literally smell the sulphur and taste the metallicness of the air.
We arrived during a nominal smog day We made a short refuelling stop on our way down to visit family in Bangkok back in Dec.2012.
The windows of the plane were covered in grey soot from all the coal fired power plants in a short time. Disgusting!!
if that was a "nominal" smog day I would hate to see a bad smog day..
You seen this. Was gunna post it before but could not find link.


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Old 12-13-2016, 09:07 PM #2598
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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I thought I read that most of the world's methane and greenhouse gasses were caused by livestock.

I am a meat eater for sure. I just did a quick google search. I hate to link to PETA but Meat and the Environment | Animals Used for Food | The Issues | PETA
Methane, yes. Co2 emissions in general, not so much.

It's kind of funny in a sad way, your typical mid size dog, say a golden retriever, is arguably worse for the environment than a gas guzzler, 12mpg SUV.
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Old 12-14-2016, 01:07 AM #2599
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I guess that depends on how much you drive that SUV

If it's something like a 10 mile a day commute they dog might actually be worse.

As far as smog goes: this is usually a combination of factors. Recently Paris has been having major problems with smog, the situation got so bad that they banned half the cars of the road, made public transporation free and such. Normally Paris is not that polluted at all, but due the weather (virtually no wind) it can pile up.

Smog is not caused by CO2 though, nor is it related to global warming. If the pollution was able to spread there would be no immediate problem at all.

Usually the problem is biggest if you have a big city that is in a valley and wind just doesn't blow it away. The first time i've seen this is quite long ago, driving out of prague over the hills, seeing a sort of orange blanked over the city that i did not notice at all when staying in the city during prior days.

These things usually plague inland, valley cities, whereas coastal cities usually have little problem with it since local winds carry it off over the ocean regularly.

In some extreme cases it cannot be avoided though, for example when large scale forest fires are set in asia. The smoke coming off those is so bad it can affect cities in nearby countries to a point where breathing outside air is actually becoming dangerous.
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:07 AM #2600
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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The opposition to legalization is mostly a combination of pressure from Big pharma/Alcohol who don't want competition, private prison industries who wanna keep occupancy up, and law enforcement unions who want to keep stealing from citizens via civil forfeiture laws. It's truly a sickening level of corruption no matter how you look at it. People who are literally willing to continue ruining the lives of their fellow citizens just so they can continue making money off it. If that isn't evil, I don't know what is.

There are also people who like having cannabis illegal because they hate the culture of the users (Usually liberal minded types), and so they can continue to disproportionately persecute minorities caught with it. I suspect Sessions might fall into that grouping.

Lovely, now it appears Trump is considering another nutjob to head the FDA. It's like he's actively TRYING to set our country back 50+ years.
https://www.statnews.com/2016/12/12/...mp-fda-oneill/


Imagine being prescribed a medicine when neither your doctor nor the manufacturer has any clue whether it will actually work — because the government never required it to be tested for effectiveness.

That’s not how things are done now, because federal law requires drugs to undergo clinical trial testing to gauge benefits and risks. But the incoming Trump administration may seek to undo a decades-old standard of evaluating drugs for effectiveness — to the detriment of every American who takes a prescription medicine.

One of two people being vetted as the next Food and Drug Administration commissioner gave a speech two years ago in which he suggested the agency require only safety testing for new drugs. After that, good luck.

“We should reform FDA so it is approving drugs after their sponsors have demonstrated safety and let people start using them at their own risk,” said Jim O’Neill, a managing director at Mithril Capital Management, a venture capital firm run by Peter Thiel, the billionaire Trump donor and transition team advisor. “Let’s prove efficacy after they’ve been legalized.”

He is not the right person for the job.
I find this an interesting dichotomy. As very libertarian in my views (not Libertarian, ie Gary Johnson), I perk up when I hear restricting people's freedoms is sometimes necessary to protect them from themselves. If the government rather than individual choice is the control we set on what a free adult chooses to do with his or her body, then we will have to accept that the elite that control more than their share of this freedom can impose all sorts of rules for all sorts of moralistic or profit motivated reasons.

I haven't visited this site for some time and was a fervent supporter of Trump, even very early on in the campaign. This was not because he was such a perfect choice, but because he was the first realistic, achievable, step away from an ever increasing global elite. His choices for key positions will hopefully, ALL be controversial. The establishment (both parties hate and fear him) don't want any changes, they all have it too good and the election demonstrates that those of us that pay those bills want this gravy train to stop.


He inevitably will be on the wrong side of some issues, wrong being defined as ineffective or inconsistent with his own stated philosophy. He undoubtedly will make some mistakes, but it is actually painful to contemplate the far reaching effects if Hillary, with all her corruption, bitterness and support for anti-American globalism, had been elected.
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Old 12-15-2016, 03:52 AM #2601
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

The issue with the current FDA process is that it is so stringent, that none but very large companies are able to actually conduct the requisite safety trials, and bring drugs to market. Even for those the process takes years, and there are constant cases where new drugs are available that may help, or may not, but are not made available even to people who are in constant suffering or terminal.

At the same time pharmaceutical companies also hold an effective stranglehold on production, with the ability to dictate prices, as was seen during the debacle with the epi pens and before that with HIV drugs, where Shkreli, out of very capitalistic ideals raised the price by 5000%. There is not a chance in hell he would have even considered that, if the US market was open to fair importation of medication from elsewhere in the world.

To me the litmus test of freedom, strange at it may seem, is drugs and prostitution. Both those subjects have to do with personal choice, and great deals of money. While I very sincerely do hope that I will be wrong, I expect Trump to actually set this country back in terms of freedom by decades.
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Old 12-15-2016, 02:29 PM #2602
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Do some reading about Shkreli and the HIV drug. He raised the price for conglomerates who in his mind could afford it and people would be paying for the drug through insurance anyway. It wasn't unheard of for him to give the drug away for free to individuals who needed it. They used a lot of the extra dough to finance further research, or so they say. Regardless there's a lot of FUD about that story online.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:01 AM #2603
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

NOTICE: The following is my opinion.

I expect Donald Trump to not only uphold our Constitution but to work hard with Congress and restore lost freedom, HRC would have in my opinion made America a much less free nation with never ending new regulations.

For instance seniors and retired persons who had saved a dollar would be mandated to undergo annual mental health evaluations as part of universal healthcare and their savings managed for them if their mental health score fell below a pre determined number based on a ever expanding list of factors including unwillingness to comply with these invasive evaluations.

I fear government controlled healthcare would have become an open door into all our personal lives and exploited for total control, Thank God and the American voter that we have Donald Trump and not HRC, I believe the large sums of money had already been paid and many of the companies as well as foreign investors who were awaiting their chance to subdivide our infrastructure and our exploitation will seek to destroy our recovery.

Our care and feeding as well as our compliance with ever expanding regulation would be farmed out to the highest bidding companies both foreign and domestic as we would have the unique privilege to pay for our own theft of freedom.

I can see huge crowded public housing developments for the growing masses of unemployed and those retirees deemed mentally unfit, but on the positive side the privileged would have less traffic as the masses living in public housing would not have cars, just think about the good job we would be doing protecting our environment by limiting automobile ownership.

In time as the housed jobless poor and robbed ageing became less financially viable I can see foreign investors moving in to add to our economy, just so long as they could pay the entry fees to offset their carbon footprint of course.

Lines for medical treatment inside the public housing communities would be long and I bet there would be outbreaks of contagious disease that would require the quarantine of those in public housing to remain within the fences.

The controlling elite would grant special privilege to the families of young military personnel until our growing foreign community became large enough that they subcontracted our national defense.

The short sighted greed of HRC and the alike would spell the death of our free nation and foreign takeover, the fate of the quarantined masses would likely be bleak.

We don't need genius hyper moral politically correct soft touch feel good leaders who smile and lie as they sell us out, we need proud American leaders who don't apologize for our greatness, sure we will share in the challenges of technical innovation with willing partners, but there is always a need to remain unique and separate from the world, National pride is not wrong, keeping our boarders intact gives us the ability to make our own choices.

Trump means investment in our future, and we need it, we have a lot of work to do and a lot t repair, starting with a nuclear Iran and restoring a positive financial outlook in our future.

The atrocious short sighted policies of President golf cart on his American apology tour have left us with a hell of a mess to clean up and big bills to pay, there is no time to waste, the great people Trump has surrounded himself with will help to rebuild our great nation and restore real hope and change, if we had HRC we would have witnessed the continuing pocket stuffing and power brokering at an accelerated rate that would have required the further loss of individual freedom as to facilitate the control needed to ride the late great USA down while milking every last ounce of blood from the stagnating people becoming increasingly dependent on a failed system of internal theft.

We were going the way of Rome, Trump and his excellent cabinet are our temporary reprieve, we must work to make the restoration of American Freedom and American Greatness permeant and never again allow our leaders to parade about blatantly above the law as we decline.

Now is the time for real hope and change, lets roll up our sleeves and make it so, and by God lets not get complacent as we always do and keep riding the roller coaster because we all know roller coasters always stop at the bottom of the hill, this is our last chance and we must not forget how close we came to becoming a socialist time bomb, our challenges are already daunting enough and we need to stay on track for decades just to stay on the top tier, one more Barry Sorrento disaster and we may not survive.

Remember, as we mend our Constitution that's virtually hanging by threads everyone will benefit, freedom is great for everyone, socialism is only good for the hand full of controllers and harsh as hell for all the worker bees.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 12-16-2016 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 12-16-2016, 01:08 AM #2604
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Increasing a medicine price because insurance will cover it is ridiculous. For the individual using it that might work out, but i guess someone is paying for that insurance, right? So if you raise prices across the board because insurance pays for them, the premiums will just skyrocket.

Dutch insurance companies noticed this as well, and for medicines that are available as generics now only pay for the cheapest generic on the market. If you want anything equivalent but more expensive, you need to pay it yourself as a patient.

This has driven down the price of numerous widely used medications by 99% over a 5 to 10 year period.

I am amazed and appaled by what some americans pay for medication.

This creates a problematic situation as well: people will try to smuggle in cheaper generics. Just look at what is being traded on the dark net. It's not all controlled substances, a lot of it is actual medication for conditions like cholesterol, blood pressure and even cancer.

People are buying legal prescription medication from india, or even europe, on a platform that is mostly considered to be used for trading drugs like cannabis, xtc, cocaine or even heroin.

Initially it puzzled me why medication was sold at, for example, $30-$100 a month on regular doses that is available here from the pharmacy for under $10 a month. Many of those things have no recreational potential and would not be taken by anyone that could not easily get a prescription for them. Looking at the feedback on this thing it dawned on me that all the buyers were from the US.
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Old 12-16-2016, 02:51 AM #2605
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

@Benm, thank you for pointing out the obvious. Arbitrarily raising prices at any level to pad the bottom line still means that money must come from somewhere. it also means that people without insurance or poor insurance plans are completely screwed over.

I used Shkreli as the most glaring example, but those kinds of hikes take place all the time, on different scales. The Healthcare system IS broken when anyone ends up needing to pay $50 for an aspirin at the hospital, and that does take place right now.
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Old 12-20-2016, 01:06 AM #2606
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

$50 for an aspirin tablet? That would buy you about 1000 tablets of aspirin from your local store in the US (or europe for that matter).

If a hospital actually goes as far as administering golden-unicorn-brand $50/ea aspirin tablets witout giving the patient any choice in that, it would be unethical at best.

I can understand that they would do it though, if they got a $25 kick back fee for each tablet prescribed.

That's where insurance companies can come in and do good work though: If a hospital here pulled a stunt like that, insurance companies would blacklist that hospital and not pay for any care it provided, forcing patients to go to a different one and driving it out of business quickly.

Our insurance system basically has 3 variants, all covering a government mandated list of treatmens to cover for: The very cheap option is very limited in what hospitals you can choose from, basically only allowing the ones performing the very cheapest services.

Most people have the middle option that covers the vast majority of hospitals for most treatments. This is beneficial for the patient if there is an option to choose one with the shortest waiting list or more convenient location available.

The most expensive option covers all public hospitals, except blacklisted ones. The blacklisted ones are only a very small percentage of hospitals that have proven to supply substandard care and/or gross overpricing (as in $50 aspirins).

Those limitations do not apply to emergencies either, if you need acute care it will always be covered and usually is provided by whatever hospital is the fastest one you can reach. So even with the cheapest insurance you are covered if you get into an accident, have a heart attack, stoke etc and just ambulanced off to the nearest facility avaiable.
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:16 PM #2607
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

They do it because they are profit driven, and there are really no safeguards in place to prevent hospitals from overcharging. Now large insurance companies do have the leverage to go ahead and say to the hospital, we'll pay the $0.50 per pill that it costs, and hospital will accept that, and write off the $49.50 balance as a loss, to pay less taxes. Unfortunately that still leaves those paying out of pocket, having to pay a ridiculous fee as they don't have leverage.

At the same time all insurance plans in the US, that people actually pay for, also have deductibles, and only cover a percentage of the total billing amount. For example, in my case, I pay $150 for emergency room visit, 2k deductible, and only after that my insurance kicks in to cover 80% of the remaining cost of my care. The 20%, also happens to be based on the inflated $50 per pill price.

The sad truth of the matter is that in the US, medical costs are the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy, AND the vast majority of people who end up in that situation do have insurance. They are not the people that just end up going to the ER for a cut or because they have the flu, and don't want to pay a regular doctor out of pocket.

Meanwhile, since I'm headed there, looked into Thailand. Best hospital there, I can walk in, see a doctor within half an hour for under $100, and pick up medications at the same time, genuine ones, not off the street, for reasonable prices. (Which is exactly what I intend to do regarding that other medication I mentioned in the vet's section btw.)
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Old 12-20-2016, 05:19 PM #2608
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Mexico City is a good example of a large metropolis which suffers from pretty bad pollution at times. IIRC it's located in a valley surrounded by large mountains so the winds needed to push it off is almost non-existent.

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