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Old 01-19-2016, 09:26 PM #241
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
ACCORDING TO THIS LIST, TRUMP IS A POTENTIAL TERRORIST WHO NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH!!!

I know it's bad, and it is getting worse, the federal government considers many normal Americans potential terrorists...
While the famous Jefferson "tree of liberty" quote does was made in response to Shay's rebellion, in consideration of many of his other statements, he really did think that Americans would have to be vigilante in order to maintain what the Founding Fathers created. Indeed that they agreed to have the electoral college ultimately decide the presidential elections rather than rely upon a simple vote suggests that they really did not trust the average man to do what it takes to do just that. Sadly, they proved to be correct. The general apathy and lack of understanding of our governmental system as well as civics in general is worse than they imagined I suspect. In the 90s a young attorney I met did not know how many senators there are.

I don't know if you or others recall the infamous 29 Palms Questionnaire which posed a question regarding the willingness of marines to fire upon American Citizens if so required in time of martial law. It was a big deal at the time for the gun owners, enthusiasts, and dealers that I was involved with at the time. (I mean who else keeps their finger on the pulse of this sort of thing?) Question regarding firing upon American Citizens

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Old 01-19-2016, 10:39 PM #242
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Old 01-19-2016, 11:32 PM #243
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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@Planters - The establishment is not afraid of Trump at all. Should he come to power he will not be able to get much of anything done.
I'm sorry, but that isn't credible. Of course they are afraid of him. They have ALL tried to destroy his candidacy and have failed, miserably.

Sanders is a dead end. He is a socialist. Socialism is an obscenity. He may be nice. He may be honest, but his philosophy is a disaster for a country that has moved further and further toward socialism. We don't need any more socialism. Why would a man that pushes more socialism be the best solution? Should he come to power it would be a disaster if he did get anything done.

Cute video, but would it matter if we ridiculed Bernie because he is an old hippie? No.

Howard Dean lost.

Over criminalization is how we loose our protections under the constitution. This isn't complicated. The government is WAY WAY too big. The details get overwhelmed by the sheer size of the government. They can make all the stupid lists they want, but if they lack the power to persecute us then it doesn't matter.

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Old 01-20-2016, 03:01 AM #244
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

No design on my part, not sure if I catch your meaning correctly, but being against illegal immigration seems like a no brainer to me, was just an example that even elected officials such as Rand Paul (or Trump, running for office, in my example) are considered potential terrorists by that list.
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Old 01-20-2016, 01:34 PM #245
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Alaskan,
I certainly understood your point if you are asking me. The list, like most lists created by committees in huge institutions, grows to an enormous size and can be applied inappropriately. The reason I focus on the enforcement end comes from the idea that absolute power corrupts absolutely. The corruption is not always conscious it can simply be that the government, without restraint, can threaten us even when the justification is ludicrous (Trump the terrorist!!!). If the government was smaller it would need to focus it's resources on it's core responsibilities.

Government IS the problem. That is why I resist the proposal that a larger government, as would certainly occur under a Sanders presidency, would be what we need in order to deal with the problems of government.
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Old 01-20-2016, 02:10 PM #246
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I have another question. There seems to be only a few people that routinely contribute to many of the threads, but the numbers viewing them seem to be nearly constant. Many of the posts on this category are very old and so it seems that the number viewing at say 1,700 is very large. Am I not understanding how this works?
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Old 01-20-2016, 02:49 PM #247
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I know if it's Bernie or the traitor, I'm voting for the republican side no matter who it is. Either way, I'm ready for the current circus to be over.
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Old 01-20-2016, 03:03 PM #248
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I can only agree with reducing the government, too much government destroys liberty and the balance of many things. Clearly, there are too many people drawing money from the treasury or our taxes.

Our government thinks nothing of jailing any one of the individuals who they draw money from, if they don't do as the say and pay the required amount. From this and many laws which have been created has caused the system to become more important than any one of us individually, but yet is supposed to be based on individual freedom. The same structure does deeper into our personal lives too, so this is part of humanity and what is needed to keep organizations alive and working, but at what cost when we individually become nothing but a number to big government?

I'd be happy to cut most of the federal spending to 1/4 of what it is, but of course that would cause great problems, so instead we just keep pushing everything forward instead of fixing the problem. The system of elected officials assures it, all of them want the power and none of them want to do anything to really fix the problem because voters will become upset if their piece of the pie goes away.

Maybe represented democracy isn't what we need, maybe we need a more direct democracy now where we the people will have control. We have the internet now, I am sure there must be a way to make direct voting on all of the issues congress is speaking on for us can be made by the tax payers without their back door or lobbied BS. I wonder if it is possible to fix this system without a complete crash first, we all fear the crash but it might be needed. I don't think the change we need can happen without it, those in power today won't let us take it away from them, the gang who have been working in congress for so long are all waiting for their opportunity to rise to the top and will damn us all if we interfere with their chance to rise to power that they feel is obligated to them.

All of these problems in Washington DC an extension of what is wrong with us individually. I see the same thing happening to some level or another everywhere I have ever worked, it's a microcosm of our political system, except more based on reality, due to what it takes to balance the books and run a company and there too, the machine more important than any one of its workers and within that, managers more important than any of the people working for them.

I've seen people fired because their direct manager saw them as a personal threat to their own success without taking into account what was really good for the company over all, so corruption exists in all levels of power weather business or government, but business isn't nearly as corrupt as government workers can become because they doesn't care about balancing the books, they only care about keeping their job, staying in power, or rising to more power, so in time, it becomes the problem instead of the solution.

The reality is, the individual is more important than the machines they make possible, more important than the governments, more important than the companies they work for because without them, they couldn't exist..... but here's the reason the reality seems to be different, we are replaceable. The feedback loop from this is what causes the problems (although, sometimes the solutions too), no one in power wants to be replaced, nor any of us who are dependent upon the companies we work for, so everything is in a nice tight loop, we will all do what we have to do to survive within the system. The only saving grace we have is caring about one another and adhering to good ethics, without them, we are just fuel to the machine.

Although there is a way out for all of us working for an unethical power hungry manager, machine company or organization, transfer to work for another manager, get another job, or start your own company and try to be good to your employees. Some companies are wonderful employers who care and have ethics, if yours isn't, find one, or find a way to compete with them.

Back to the top layer of the thread subject, why do we vote for a master? Is it necessary? Can't this system be more directly democratic today with our abilities to communicate instantly across the world? Do we need a single man at the top? Maybe this is just the natural order of things for us as human beings, we grow up in families where one or two people are at the top, so we want our daddies or mommies in government too.

Regarding the forum read counts, I am not sure how they count views either, but I would think it is based on registered users viewing instead of unregistered individuals looking at it, but not sure. What is a view? The number of times a page is visited all totaled together? I can look at one page in the thread several times and I think it is still counted as one view.
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Old 01-20-2016, 03:36 PM #249
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Well, my vote will be one or the other, either Bernie or Trump, depending on which one I think is more likely to win, God forbid we have Hillary, IMNSHO.
welcome the 3rd Reich...
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Old 01-20-2016, 03:51 PM #250
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Strange how we both see the same thing from different angles for any of the candidates at hand, isn't it?
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Old 01-20-2016, 04:22 PM #251
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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I have another question. There seems to be only a few people that routinely contribute to many of the threads, but the numbers viewing them seem to be nearly constant. Many of the posts on this category are very old and so it seems that the number viewing at say 1,700 is very large. Am I not understanding how this works?
I think it's because most of the viewers are guests, if you look near the bottom of the home page you will see the number of guests visiting the forum is huge, but the number of members is very small (234 while I am typing this), guests can't post. I think the views are the number of different people that have viewed the thread. If I am mistaken on any of that then hopefully a Mod will post here.

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Old 01-20-2016, 05:07 PM #252
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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I think it's because most of the viewers are guests, if you look near the bottom of the home page you will see the number of guests visiting the forum is huge, but the number of members is very small (234 while I am typing this), guests can't post. I think the views are the number of different people that have viewed the thread. If I am mistaken on any of that then hopefully a Mod will post here.

Alan
That is correct, the thread views, is a counter of anyone that has clicked on the thread, at any point, guest, or member.

Only 233 members are currently logged in.

That number, and the number of visitors is also inflated by the fact that the system doesn't log people out, or stop counting them, for 3 days iirc. There are probably only ~80 or so active members on the forum.
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:37 PM #253
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

To see "new" posts I click on quick links at the top right of the page and then click on new posts. I think that every time a member or guest clicks on a thread to read it, the count goes up by one as it has now been actively viewed.
I will look at the numbers of views on a thread, I will click on that thread to read/view it and will the check on the view count. Be back in a moment with my findings
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Old 01-20-2016, 06:37 PM #254
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I think we can pretty much all agree we want a smaller government and less intrusive regulation where laws are concerned. We also want a far far more efficient government. The question is how to get there, and what are some of the other central issues.

Personally I don't think immigration is as big of an issue as it's being made out to be. It is being used as a scapegoat issue to get people riled up though. Lots and lots of jobs that immigrants here supposedly take, are jobs that people don't want. Like it or not, there is also a huge illegal population that's not going anywhere. There is simply no mechanism that can work to get rid of 10 million or so people. My own preference would be to secure our borders betters, to permit only legal entry to begin with (and this is 100% manageable imo) and to then address the people that are already here.

How to do that? Well, the idea has been tossed around for decades now. A path to citizenship. Registration, WITHOUT THREAT OF DEPORTATION, short of deportation requirement from the originating or other country. Monitoring, with deportation in the event of a felony or equivalent conviction, and taxation. Probation period of 10 years. That's it. Is it fair to people who went through a much tougher process already, or entered legally? No, absolutely not. But it's still a far far better alternative than the often arbitrary system we have now.

@Alaskan - While from a technical standpoint, direct democracy is now possible, I don't think it could work. People in general are far too dumb and uncaring for it.

Most just want to lead their lives, know that the roads are getting fixed, the schools are open, and no one's gonna drop a bomb on them. Oh, and to pay as little in taxes as possible. Aside from that... most really don't care, or even if they care, are not in any way qualified where the issues are concerned. So opening every decision to a majority vote, where anyone can vote, would imo, be a disaster.

That said, I think we the constituents should have a much much tighter control over our representatives. To the point where they feel their job is always on the line on a month to month basis, and not a 2 or 4 year schedule. That combined with greater transparency would do wonder to streamline out government.



(I'd rather Trump be replaced with Hillary in that picture, personally )

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Old 01-20-2016, 06:41 PM #255
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Well it did not change from 4,241 views so I am all wet, opps sorry
BTW; I meant "Today's" posts, not "New" posts
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Old 01-20-2016, 07:13 PM #256
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laser Chick View Post
Well it did not change from 4,241 views so I am all wet, opps sorry


We all get excited over different things!
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