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Old 01-17-2016, 07:08 PM #225
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Well, my vote will be one or the other, either Bernie or Trump, depending on which one I think is more likely to win, God forbid we have Hillary, IMNSHO.


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Old 01-17-2016, 09:11 PM #226
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

B.S. for president....somehow it just doesn't work.

Infinitus, don't you think Bernie is just a little bit to socialist for freedom, do you think we need more government or less?

I am just asking what you think, not passing judgment or attacking, I am just trying to understand.
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:48 AM #227
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Waiting for Infinitus, but my answer is less governement, keep the military strong but cut government to the bone, the feds have come to a point they have forgotten who they work for.
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Old 01-18-2016, 02:58 AM #228
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

We are on the same page there Alaskan, big brother is too dam big.
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Old 01-18-2016, 03:07 AM #229
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
B.S. for president....somehow it just doesn't work.

Infinitus, don't you think Bernie is just a little bit to socialist for freedom, do you think we need more government or less?
I definitely don't think we need more government. In fact I think the government we have now is already too much.

What we do need is someone willing to cut away parts that don't work, and yes, create new ones where needed.

A perfect example of this is the department of homeland security, the TSA and the DEA. All three agencies continue to fail non stop at the cost of billions, which btw, would go a very very long way to actually paying for decent socialized healthcare.

There is room for both socialism, capitalism and a true representative government. One of the central themes I see throughout the news, and social media is division as of late, on many many subjects. This is being done on purpose, because it's easier to control a divider people bickering among themselves. So while I probably don't agree with you on many subjects, we're actually in more of a grey area on most, and agree on even more.

Still, given what you guys have said, Bernie would seem like the optimal choice over Trump, Hillary, Cruz, or Bush. I just don't think he'll be able to get much done even if he does get elected, because the presidential election is more for show than anything else.
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Old 01-18-2016, 03:18 AM #230
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I half expect the elections are rigged anyway, I don't believe our elected officials really control as much as we think, I believe they take their orders from the people who really run things, who would that be? Humm...... money talks.
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Old 01-18-2016, 11:19 PM #231
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

There seems to be a consensus that the two best choices would be Trump or Sanders. I agree with those choices as well. But, I think there is a world of difference between these two.

There is also a consensus that we have too much government. Certainly everyone will have special areas that they would like to see cut more than others, but the proposals that Sanders puts out will substantially increase both the reach of the federal government and the cost, as in trillions more. He is a proud socialist and socialism has grown far too large a component of our government. This is basically the wealth transfer function of government. This growth continues to accelerate because as more people become dependent on more programs the number of voters that vote to ensure the continuation as well as the expansion of these programs increases. As more and more people climb into the cart and no longer help to pull it, the cart slows and eventually collapses under the weight of the entire population.

Don't get me wrong, I think Sanders and Trump are the only two honest (relatively) candidates and the issue of character has not been emphasized enough. But, it is their policies that make me favor Trump.
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Old 01-19-2016, 03:42 AM #232
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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...but the proposals that Sanders puts out will substantially increase both the reach of the federal government and the cost, as in trillions more.
That's the last thing we need, the spending level we have now is likely going to crash the country, Obamacare making it even more likely, more on top of that? Are they crazy?
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:47 AM #233
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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I half expect the elections are rigged anyway, I don't believe our elected officials really control as much as we think, I believe they take their orders from the people who really run things, who would that be? Humm...... money talks.
Did you read Synthetic Terror by Webster Tarpley. Though a book about 9-11, he gets into the rigging of the election that gave us Bush. It was a real steal...rigging the voting machines....a whole lot of really bad stuff transpired.

Sadly, I think we are past the point of no return. The government machine is just too big, too entrenched, and in worse grid lock than Manhattan traffic.
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Old 01-19-2016, 07:58 AM #234
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

ACCORDING TO THIS LIST, TRUMP IS A POTENTIAL TERRORIST WHO NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH!!!

I know it's bad, and it is getting worse, the federal government considers many normal Americans potential terrorists, see the following from: 72 Types Of Americans That Are Considered ?Potential Terrorists? In Official Government Documents

Below is a list of 72 types of Americans that are considered to be “extremists” and “potential terrorists” in official U.S. government documents. I guess it's a fact according to this list, I am willing to stand up for myself, my State and liberty... thus, a potential terrorist! Funny, I've never thought of myself as a potential terrorist, or is it the other way around, too many people in power are potential terrorists? I am not planning an overthrow of the government or the UN, don't stock pile weapons and ammo or food, don't break the law, don't belong to a militia, am a kind law abiding citizen without a police record but if you disagree with the BS coming out of Washington these days you become a potential terrorist? Something is very, very wrong in our government.

Count how many of these you feel an affinity with, even one makes you a potential terrorist, but I don't believe there is a person alive who doesn't believe in at least one of these things which makes us ALL potential terrorists, according to the government today. Number 49 is mine, among a few more. One of these is fairly funny to me, in that I actually would like to see a north american union, so what does that make me, if I would like it? Knowing that makes me wonder about myself now... If they put it on this list as something normal Americans might be against, the way I see it, because so many of these sentiments are so common, perhaps I'm un-American to think such thoughts.


Here's what can get you on the "potential" terrorist list:


1. Those that talk about “individual liberties”

2. Those that advocate for states’ rights

3. Those that want “to make the world a better place”

4. “The colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule”

5. Those that are interested in “defeating the Communists”

6. Those that believe “that the interests of one’s own nation are separate from the interests of other nations or the common interest of all nations”

7. Anyone that holds a “political ideology that considers the state to be unnecessary, harmful,or undesirable”

8. Anyone that possesses an “intolerance toward other religions”

9. Those that “take action to fight against the exploitation of the environment and/or animals”

10. “Anti-Gay”

11. “Anti-Immigrant”

12. “Anti-Muslim”

13. “The Patriot Movement”

14. “Opposition to equal rights for gays and lesbians”

15. Members of the Family Research Council

16. Members of the American Family Association

17. Those that believe that Mexico, Canada and the United States “are secretly planning to merge into a European Union-like entity that will be known as the ‘North American Union'”

18. Members of the American Border Patrol/American Patrol

19. Members of the Federation for American Immigration Reform

20. Members of the Tennessee Freedom Coalition

21. Members of the Christian Action Network

22. Anyone that is “opposed to the New World Order”

23. Anyone that is engaged in “conspiracy theorizing”

24. Anyone that is opposed to Agenda 21

25. Anyone that is concerned about FEMA camps

26. Anyone that “fears impending gun control or weapons confiscations”

27. The militia movement

28. The sovereign citizen movement

29. Those that “don’t think they should have to pay taxes”

30. Anyone that “complains about bias”

31. Anyone that “believes in government conspiracies to the point of paranoia”

32. Anyone that “is frustrated with mainstream ideologies”

33. Anyone that “visits extremist websites/blogs”

34. Anyone that “establishes website/blog to display extremist views”

35. Anyone that “attends rallies for extremist causes”

36. Anyone that “exhibits extreme religious intolerance”

37. Anyone that “is personally connected with a grievance”

38. Anyone that “suddenly acquires weapons”

39. Anyone that “organizes protests inspired by extremist ideology”

40. “Militia or unorganized militia”

41. “General right-wing extremist”

42. Citizens that have “bumper stickers” that are patriotic or anti-U.N.

43. Those that refer to an “Army of God”

44. Those that are “fiercely nationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation)”

45. Those that are “anti-global”

46. Those that are “suspicious of centralized federal authority”

47. Those that are “reverent of individual liberty”

48. Those that “believe in conspiracy theories”

49. Those that have “a belief that one’s personal and/or national ‘way of life’ is under attack”

50. Those that possess “a belief in the need to be prepared for an attack either by participating in paramilitary preparations and training or survivalism”

51. Those that would “impose strict religious tenets or laws on society (fundamentalists)”

52. Those that would “insert religion into the political sphere”

53. Anyone that would “seek to politicize religion”

54. Those that have “supported political movements for autonomy”

55. Anyone that is “anti-abortion”

56. Anyone that is “anti-Catholic”

57. Anyone that is “anti-nuclear”

58. “Rightwing extremists”

59. “Returning veterans”

60. Those concerned about “illegal immigration”

61. Those that “believe in the right to bear arms”

62. Anyone that is engaged in “ammunition stockpiling”

63. Anyone that exhibits “fear of Communist regimes”

64. “Anti-abortion activists”

65. Those that are against illegal immigration

66. Those that talk about “the New World Order” in a “derogatory” manner

67. Those that have a negative view of the United Nations

68. Those that are opposed “to the collection of federal income taxes”

69. Those that supported former presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr

70. Those that display the Gadsden Flag (“Don’t Tread On Me”)

71. Those that believe in “end times” prophecies

72. Evangelical Christians

The groups of people in the list above are considered “problems” that need to be dealt with. In some of the documents referenced above, members of the military are specifically warned not to have anything to do with such groups.

We are moving into a very dangerous time in American history. You can now be considered a “potential terrorist” just because of your religious or political beliefs. Free speech is becoming a thing of the past, and we are rapidly becoming an Orwellian society that is the exact opposite of what our founding fathers intended.
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:59 PM #235
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

This is why any arguments about how we are going to "fix things" by trimming here and there and looking to improve efficiency is like spitting into the wind. Government is the problem and the only really effective thing we can do or should spend effort attempting to do is to reduce its size. Everything else follows. Nothing else will matter in the end other than government and those inside government will resist what we try to do. The more they fear a candidate the more likely that candidate might be able to help us.
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:34 PM #236
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

@Alaskan - What you're describing is essentially over-criminalization. That kind of a broad list, which can be interpreted to include just about anyone is also nothing new. We saw the same kind of paranoia historically in the US... last time it was McCarthyism, 20 years from now I'm sure it will be known by another moniker.

@Planters - The establishment is not afraid of Trump at all. Should he come to power he will not be able to get much of anything done. Not without radically expanding the powers of the oval office which is a precarious proposition. Sanders is definitely the greater threat to them since he is well connected already, and would have support on many issues on both sides of the isle.

There are things I think most people agree on;

1. The government is too big already.
2. The government is horribly inefficient.

The thing that people disagree on, is whether the government should to more, or do less.
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Old 01-19-2016, 06:47 PM #237
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

We should go back to the Constitution and Bill of Rights and any law that circumvents any part of either should be stricken.

We are in big trouble, the Iran deal is a disaster, our economy is at some point going collapse under our debt, Yes I do understand debt ratio spending if you are thinking of that, but we are becoming less and less free and more socialist, it's all about control, ((((more government is more control)))), we need more self reliance and we need to be able to be self reliant.

Our government is supposed to work for us, not control us, and we have to shoulder a lot to carry this regulatory behemoth that is becoming increasingly counterproductive.

I thank God that I don't have children who have to grow up under the burden of this regulatory quagmire.

Big government resembles a cancer, it's killing us.
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Old 01-19-2016, 07:18 PM #238
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
We should go back to the Constitution and Bill of Rights and any law that circumvents any part of either should be stricken.
Which is EXACTLY what the Judicial Branch is supposed to do, in an ideal world.
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Old 01-19-2016, 07:28 PM #239
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

That list is ridiculous BS! As much as half of that list applies to many people! Notice that it lists most everyone except the terrorists! Militant Islamic extremists are missing from the list! I find many of them especially disturbing including these:

3. Those that want “to make the world a better place”

12. “Anti-Muslim"

22. Anyone that is “opposed to the New World Order”

24. Anyone that is opposed to Agenda 21

25. Anyone that is concerned about FEMA camps

26. Anyone that “fears impending gun control or weapons confiscations”

55. Anyone that is “anti-abortion”

59. “Returning veterans”

61. Those that “believe in the right to bear arms”

62. Anyone that is engaged in “ammunition stockpiling”

64. “Anti-abortion activists”

66. Those that talk about “the New World Order” in a “derogatory” manner

71. Those that believe in “end times” prophecies

72. Evangelical Christians

Are Christians terrorists and Muslims are not?!!!

Alan
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Old 01-19-2016, 07:47 PM #240
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Why bother going any further than #3?

Do you want to make the world a better place?

Would you want to make the world a better place?

Almost no one would say "no" to those questions.

What is this list based on? It's insanely broad. ANY, elected official would actually fall under many categories listed, so saying Trump specifically would be categorized as such due to it is pretty dumb.

I don't like dismissing things like this out of hand, but it seems like absurd fear-mongering designed to elicit a positive reaction toward trump, and not much more.
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