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Old 11-09-2016, 01:46 PM #2369
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Nice going Hillary and the DNC! Screw over the likeable candidate and run possibly the most loathsome democratic candidate since Bill.

This was in the bag 100% if they hadn't screwed over Sanders. I'm happy to see Hillary lose this, her victory would have shown that corruption has no consequences.

Bye Hillary! Don't go away mad, just go away. (actually do go away mad)




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Old 11-09-2016, 03:48 PM #2370
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA



Where is Planters, he was posting some months ago about wanting Trump in office several times as a good start, not the answer, but a good start for the direction we want to go. I'd like to see what he might post about this
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Old 11-09-2016, 04:31 PM #2371
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

When the DNC steals the nomination from you and causes a Trump presidency.




Trump certainly wasn't my choice, and neither was Hillary. For all my personal dislike of the many things he has said, I do believe he ran a very fair, and uphill campaign. Against extreme odds, an extremely biased media, and as close to an incumbent as could have been orchestrated by entrenched politicians.


Regardless of whether you are celebrating your candidates win this morning, or coming to grips with a harsh reality, Trump is without a doubt the democratically chosen president. As it turns out there is also already a silver lining. Well over 80% of eligible voters, voted! In modern history that is a record turnout.

Edit: Well crap... I was looking at 2012 statistics, my bad, and now am also actually sad because it means the voter turnout is only around 60%, and once again third party candidates barely made a dent at all.

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Old 11-09-2016, 04:53 PM #2372
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

When trying to rationalize how this outcome has come to pass I think it is due to the flawed divide and conquer strategy that was used. Both parties roadmap to power is currently putting on the face of the extreme wings of their constituents. I believe the watershed moment for this campaign was the moment Hillary called half the country deplorable. She should be kicking herself this morning for that. Very surprised the hashtag of the day is not #Iamnotdeporable.

The strategy of shutting down any discussion, difference of opinion or opposing view not with logic honest debate but immediately labeling and trying to shame people into thinking they are not good at heart. Basicly lumping and labeling anyone not completely on board with the far wing ideology with nasty labels that may fit a very fringe minority of the party but is not at the core of the individuals in the moderate majority. Everywhere these people looked they were being told they were no good, "deplorable" and basically would be left with no representation, a problem to be weeded out of society. Saying they are with the KKK because some wacko in a shed in some backwoods says he is voting for one candidate. You can find crazy extremist supporting both sides. I believe these voters that came out in mass felt that if they did not take action their personal safety, values or very existence was at stake even if it meant supporting someone like Trump.

I also think this is why the polls were so far off with a huge number of people keeping secret which way they were leaning for fear of retaliation or being labeled. This will be a very hard lesson learned by our country. The slogan which she did not back up with the rest of her rederik "Stronger Together" was a very true message and the only way we move forward just with a more inclusive definition of "Together" than she was envisioning. Regardless of what the media or the extremes of both parties push the vast majority of this country has great respect for one another but this divisive narrative is only serving to draw more people to the fringes out of fear and self protection. I think back to how this country came together after 9/11 and the year that followed. It was the least politically divisive time I can remember in my life and even though there were a lot of mistakes made and it did not last. We really should look back at that moment and try to find some of that unity we found on that day and apply it to healing the divide and finding a new way to move forward for this country.

I was very surprised to see Trump come out and give a very good victory speech giving a lot of personal respect for hillary and her campaign for a tough fight. Calling to heal the wounds that have been opened. Weather that will play out with how he governs is a big question mark but we as a nation need to find some common ground and be able to have meaningful discussions on how to move forward without just throwing stones at one another when we don't see eye to eye. The middle needs to come together. I was really hoping for a middle party to spring up out of this mess but fear of the greater loss again gripped everyone keeping them from taking the chance for real change but it is not too late. There is going to be a lot of soul searching about the last year and how we got to this outcome. Hopefully reason and reaching out to our countrymen follows not even more bitter resentment and division as that is getting us nowhere and will take us to a place that no one will be happy with.

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Old 11-09-2016, 05:17 PM #2373
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Good points, I for one want to see a middle party come into power and take it for awhile myself, this two party system isn't working well.... but will a three party system be any better? I have been soul searching for what the answer might be to stop the BS going on in Washington DC, this guy might help, I hope... I am eager to see if he lives up to his promises, but most never do. I had heart for Obama with his promises, they were empty and he went the opposite direction on some of them, Obama care where you can keep your doctor was an outright lie to us, I won't forgive him for that.
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Old 11-09-2016, 05:50 PM #2374
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I told folks I would revisit this after the election. While I made no prediction on who would win or lose as I knew that it would be an unpredictable narrow race, some folks, particularly Paul, did. In fact, I marked several threads so I could return to them and see how Paul's predictions turned out post election. Paul said:

Quote:
Today's polls put Clinton up 86% with Democrats while Trump is up 63% with Republican voters. There isn't a day that goes by that Trump doesn't say something to alienate voters in one way or another. Clinton does better with every demographic except white males with no college degree. The article in the New York Times today said it was their sense of loss. Uneducated white males feel that they aren't doing as well as politically than in past years. This fits well with Trump's campaign that the country is worse off in every way. But, many people are feeling that times are getting better for them.
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Trump is losing big so far. If I knew the future I would buy a powerball ticket and buy myself an island. But, there are predictors that have served well in the past. Trump is losing. Even Fox News says so, though not in their commentaries.
It turns out that Trump is not a big loser, and it wasn't simply "uneducated white voters" who voted for him as some on the left would have us believe. The reason I decided to select a couple of comments here to re-post is that it shows the utter arrogance and disdain some folks on the left seem to have for their country men and women. When 50% of the United States believes diametrically differently than the other 50%, that doesn't make the former "uneducated", stupid, dumb, racist, ***ist, homophobic, or any other name invented by the later which is only intended to derogate and stifle those with traditional values.

I certainly don't want to see Trump or the Republican controlled Congress shift to the left merely to appease the losing party and the far left that hijacked that party. That's not what this election was about, and they need to take the bull by the horns, plow through vitriol that is going to be heaved at them by a bitter losing party and implement the platform that Trump ran on. However, I also would hope and pray that Republicans, Trump and those that voted for him never exhibit that type of arrogance or disdain for those that simply believe differently than they do.

We'll see what happens. Again, I refrain from making silly predictions and would rather see things for how they actually play out.
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Old 11-09-2016, 06:12 PM #2375
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Yeah, nice job picking Hillary as a candidate

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Old 11-09-2016, 07:41 PM #2376
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Do you believe the 'Wall of Trump' will actually happen and same for most of his other plans? I am not particularly happy Trump won, but compared to Clinton he probably was the better choice. And that is saying something. Who knows, he may end up being the best president the US ever had. The chance may be small, but so was his chance of winning once upon a time. Congratulations to those who voted for him. But if the wall of trump does happen, expect some angry Mexicans.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:49 PM #2377
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

The wall will happen to some degree yes. The form it will take is the bigger question. There are actually many areas along the border that are literally nothing more than just some low posts with barbed wire, and that is a problem.

Unfortunately even in areas where there is a "wall" it's far from impregnable. So what really needs to happened is for the border to be actively monitored, more so than it is monitored today, and for people who enter illegally to be turned away. Provided with food, water, and medical attention if needed, but documented, fingerprints, picture, name, and then sent back.

Even that will not prevent drugs from continuing to flood into the country though. For every drug tunnel that's located and destroyed there are always more. There is really no way to prevent that kind of smuggling altogether.
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Old 11-09-2016, 07:53 PM #2378
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

For the reasons you just mentioned, you are right. It is likely to happen and for good reasons, but I just hope it isn't going to be as extreme as what he made out.
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Old 11-09-2016, 08:14 PM #2379
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
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For the reasons you just mentioned, you are right. It is likely to happen and for good reasons, but I just hope it isn't going to be as extreme as what he made out.
Why do you think that the extreme version would necessarily be a bad thing? It's not like it would really even cost that much in the long run.

Of course there's still going to be drug smuggling (although hopefully less of it). A lock only serves to keep honest people out. If it looks like you could hop a 7-foot fence and not get caught, you'd be more tempted to do it (even if you have no intention of drug smuggling or committing any other crimes) versus if it were a 30 foot concrete barrier that was actively being patrolled. The more intimidating your lock, the less likely an "honest" person will mess with it.
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Old 11-09-2016, 11:09 PM #2380
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

The election is done. Trump is our next President !

I am already proud of the progress Trump has made, he has stood up for protecting our borders, something that is a serious issue.

I am hopeful and optimistic for America's future.

-----edit-----

Hap, it will pass, they cried last night and now they march and pout, but it won't change anything, if we want to keep them from getting hurt then ignore them, let them cry it out and go home, enjoy the holidays and maybe even get a job next year, but don't empower them to get hurt, it's useless. Hopefully the media whores won't stir the pot for ratings and cause anyone to get hurt.

----edit-----

Well the news man is asking the protesters what they want and they don't even know, they just want to complain about how they feel.

These kids must all need jobs, I suppose if they had work in the morning they wouldn't be out protesting how they feel.
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Old 11-09-2016, 11:49 PM #2381
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

If you look online seems like a massive political protest going on in New York tonight.

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Old 11-10-2016, 12:08 AM #2382
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pman View Post
Have to say again the stunning part was how much the media wanted a different result and how wrong they were.
Political "shocker"? More like media bias running rampant and getting a cold hard slap in the face.
This is the most truth I've read in a single sentence today.

It even resonates perfectly with every single media outlet in Australia.
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Old 11-10-2016, 12:55 AM #2383
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

THANK YOU BIAS MEDIA!!! You helped pave the way for republican conservatives to take over the Presidency, House and Senate they will maintain control for at least 2 years maybe even 8 or more, I look forward to 4 conservative Supreme Court Justices as well. Now California is talking about leaving the Union!!!

Thank you, from this day forward the mainstream media will be taken as seriously as reality TV.



Welcome to the internet information revolution where Agorism flourishes and bigger government is on the way out.
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Old 11-10-2016, 01:05 AM #2384
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

There will be protests, but that could also be the case if clinton had won.

Then again the result is quite clear, Trump won. Taking floriday but not even needing that if michigan turns out out to be republican as well (someone is counting ballots there very slowly it seems, though trump as a slight lead with 96% counted so far - did they lose 4% of the ballots or something down there?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Good points, I for one want to see a middle party come into power and take it for awhile myself, this two party system isn't working well.... but will a three party system be any better?
What is the definition of 'better' here?

Virtually all other real democratic countries in the world have a multi party system, some have few parties, some have many.

In most cases it does mean no party secures absolute majority and will have to form a coalition with anohter, agreeing to barter out some policies on which they differ.

If the US had such a thing with a middle party that could give a majority in a coalition with either democrats or republicans this could give a more moderate consolidated policy overall. It could, for example, allow increased military expense in exchange for not interfering with current abortion rights to form a coalition with trump.

Personally i don't think such a system fits well with the US 'winner takes all' mentality, and as said before neither democrats nor republicans have any benefit in switching to such a system. As this would require a change in consitution it is virtually impossible to implement in the US.
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