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Old 10-30-2016, 09:35 AM #2225
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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^Wow, why the hec am I even voting if my vote dosen't even go directly to the person I choose to avoid us from going into WWIII?

-Alex
Becuase we are, and have always been, a federal republic.


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Old 10-30-2016, 03:29 PM #2226
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by Hap View Post
^Wow, why the hec am I even voting if my vote dosen't even go directly to the person I choose to avoid us from going into WWIII?

-Alex
Because the local elections, state reps and ballot issues are the really important things. Those who believe in elite democracy intentionally designed the presidential election to work like this as a way of putting a filter between the will of the people and the president. They actually view a low voter turnout as a good thing (they believe that those who would stay home are people who shouldn't be voting anyway, and they can use the low turnout as a way of justifying their belief that the citizens are HAPPY with the current system.). The elites in our society actually WANT the voters to get discouraged and stay home. It's how they maintain the status quo, and also justify the current system.

The United States is almost unique in the way it uses the outdated electoral college for presidential elections. Most other modern nations in the world use a runoff election system where the winner eventually gets a true majority of the popular vote.

It would help if our educational system actually educated students on the darker truths of our government. Through high school must of it is just the usual patriotic crap about how we're a free country where everyone gets to vote. You gotta usually take a college level politics course before they go into detail on the darker aspects of our system.

How would our system be fixed? Personally I believe two things are immediately necessary if we want to restore the integrity of our elections.
1-Citizens United MUST be overturned. Money corrupts almost everything it touches, and politics are no exception.
2-The electoral college MUST be done away with. Every vote should count equally. The worst part of the EC is how it actually gives more value to the average vote in some states than others. It's a broken system and needs to go.
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:12 PM #2227
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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The United States is almost unique in the way it uses the outdated electoral college for presidential elections. Most other modern nations in the world use a runoff election system where the winner eventually gets a true majority of the popular vote.

It would help if our educational system actually educated students on the darker truths of our government. Through high school must of it is just the usual patriotic crap about how we're a free country where everyone gets to vote. You gotta usually take a college level politics course before they go into detail on the darker aspects of our system..

We have this issue to some degree in Canada too. An antiquated First-Past-The-Post system that has been largely unchanged since confederation. We tried to have a provincial referendum in Ontario to switch from FPTP to a form a of proportional representation back in 2006 but there was total confusion and it failed. Most people did not understand the difference between the systems and the small attempt of a campaign to educate them was useless.

It wasn't until I managed to find a math teacher at my high school who was willing to explain it to me during lunch break that I figured it out. lol

I was born in El Salvador and have always thought that the system there was in many ways superior to either the American or Canadian. There, there is only a single house of parliament (avoids the endless partisan bickering and wasted time that can occur with two house when they are split) elected by open list proportional representation. There is a President who is elected by a direct vote with runoff between the top two if none of the candidates receive a majority in the first vote.
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:42 PM #2228
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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How would our system be fixed? Personally I believe two things are immediately necessary if we want to restore the integrity of our elections.
1-Citizens United MUST be overturned. Money corrupts almost everything it touches, and politics are no exception.
2-The electoral college MUST be done away with. Every vote should count equally. The worst part of the EC is how it actually gives more value to the average vote in some states than others. It's a broken system and needs to go.
Absolutely! Now, how to get the politicians to actually enact those changes.

Ed
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:24 PM #2229
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by Ears and Eggs View Post
We have this issue to some degree in Canada too. An antiquated First-Past-The-Post system that has been largely unchanged since confederation. We tried to have a provincial referendum in Ontario to switch from FPTP to a form a of proportional representation back in 2006 but there was total confusion and it failed. Most people did not understand the difference between the systems and the small attempt of a campaign to educate them was useless.

It wasn't until I managed to find a math teacher at my high school who was willing to explain it to me during lunch break that I figured it out. lol

I was born in El Salvador and have always thought that the system there was in many ways superior to either the American or Canadian. There, there is only a single house of parliament (avoids the endless partisan bickering and wasted time that can occur with two house when they are split) elected by open list proportional representation. There is a President who is elected by a direct vote with runoff between the top two if none of the candidates receive a majority in the first vote.
Well said. It's always struck me as odd how America feels the need to be so different from the rest of the world in these areas. It would be one thing if our system actually WAS the best, but it's clearly not. America has fallen behind in education, economics and even in the happiness of the people.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:40 PM #2230
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

^Agreed with the point above! IIRC America is now the 19th happiness country in the world with most of Scandinavia leading in the top 5 almost constantly! Their system is excellent and upon watching a documentary on how prisons are set up in Norway they look nothing alike those in America. Most of their prisons focus on getting people back out into the main population and do this by having them live in almost house like environments.

Fun fact: Did you know the US has more guns on the street then Somalia? Kinda crazy huh?

-Alex
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Old 10-30-2016, 07:45 PM #2231
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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It would help if our educational system actually educated students on the darker truths of our government. Through high school must of it is just the usual patriotic crap about how we're a free country where everyone gets to vote. You gotta usually take a college level politics course before they go into detail on the darker aspects of our system.
In fairness though, at least there's that level of transparency. It's the same in much of the Western world, where people are free to whine about how everyone is oppressing their rights and invading their personal space - but if that were actually true, we'd all be in a North Korean-esque existence where dissidents really are punished. I've read such horror stories as if residents tinker with or disable the state installed radios in their homes, they are severely punished. Then I read 1984...
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Old 10-30-2016, 08:05 PM #2232
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Fun fact: Did you know the US has more guns on the street then Somalia? Kinda crazy huh?

-Alex
Somalia is a much smaller nation - firearms per capita is probably a better metric to compare prevalence in each country.

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Old 10-30-2016, 09:03 PM #2233
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Somalia is a much smaller nation - firearms per capita is probably a better metric to compare prevalence in each country.

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oops.

-Alex
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Old 10-31-2016, 12:41 AM #2234
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

http://www.libertywritersnews.com/20...e-hillary-cry/

Huma Abedin has VOIDED her immunity deal with the FBI. She will be facing jail time or give up dirt on Hillary Clinton. Hillary has got to be crying big ol’ gator tears right about now…

Huma Abedin has been by Hillary’s side for a long time. After those emails were found on her husband Anthony Weiner’s computer. Hillary Clinton does not want her around anymore. According to Hillary’s campaign, Abedin is now sitting in a different section of the plane when it was traveling to Florida.



AAaaaa HAHAHAHA!!!

Hillarys campaign is imploding from corruption, and just a week before we all go vote.
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Old 10-31-2016, 01:09 AM #2235
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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IT'S OVER: Huma Abedin Just Flipped!*What She Did Minutes Ago Has Hillary In Tears... * LIBERTY WRITERS NEWS

Huma Abedin has VOIDED her immunity deal with the FBI. She will be facing jail time or give up dirt on Hillary Clinton. Hillary has got to be crying big ol’ gator tears right about now…

Huma Abedin has been by Hillary’s side for a long time. After those emails were found on her husband Anthony Weiner’s computer. Hillary Clinton does not want her around anymore. According to Hillary’s campaign, Abedin is now sitting in a different section of the plane when it was traveling to Florida.



AAaaaa HAHAHAHA!!!

Hillarys campaign is imploding from corruption, and just a week before we all go vote.
This puts my happiness factor 20pnts ahead. If they manage to get ahead of this we will never know the truth. I love to see them squirm. That smirk of a smile is her poker face and she is playing the river trying to bluff. She is so dirty. Shame! Shame! 'rings the bell' Shame! Shame!
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Old 10-31-2016, 01:17 AM #2236
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I don't get it?

Has she decided to throw the election?

Hillary Turns Her Back on Standing Rock Sioux: 'Path Forward Must Serve Broadest Public Interest'

The statement from the Clinton campaign director of coalitions press, Xochitl Hinojosa, who oversees Hispanic, black, and women’s media for the Clinton campaign, reads in full:
We received a letter today from representatives of the tribes protesting the construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline. From the beginning of this campaign, Secretary Clinton has been clear that she thinks all voices should be heard and all views considered in federal infrastructure projects. Now, all of the parties involved—including the federal government, the pipeline company and contractors, the state of North Dakota, and the tribes—need to find a path forward that serves the broadest public interest. As that happens, it’s important that on the ground in North Dakota, everyone respects demonstrators’ rights to protest peacefully, and workers’ rights to do their jobs safely.



Anti Big oil Dem votes GONE

Pro Native peoples votes GONE

Minority voters watching her side with the militarized police GONE

BLM votes GONE
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Old 10-31-2016, 01:27 AM #2237
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Anti Big oil Dem votes GONE

Pro Native peoples votes GONE

Minority voters watching her side with the militarized police GONE

BLM votes GONE
With the obvious implication they go Trump?

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Old 10-31-2016, 01:30 AM #2238
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

They will do nothing more complicated than just staying home.

You know, the "other" voting option.
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Old 10-31-2016, 01:35 AM #2239
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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They will do nothing more complicated than just staying home.

You know, the "other" voting option.
Fair enough. What do we want to put the electoral vote total at then, given those lost votes? 349-189, or more like 368-170?

Trump wins, obviously. Or will the landslide be stronger? If he pulled off California and New York it would put Clinton under 100 electoral votes...

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Old 10-31-2016, 01:57 AM #2240
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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2-The electoral college MUST be done away with. Every vote should count equally. The worst part of the EC is how it actually gives more value to the average vote in some states than others. It's a broken system and needs to go.
It is a very oldfashioned system that doesn't serve purpose any longer, it's possible to do a popular vote spanning the entire nation nowadays.

This could break the 2 party system and lead to results like those in european countries where no party secures absoluty majority but has to form coalitions with others to get a majority in parliament.

The downside is that this change will probably never happen: Both democrats and republicans will lose from such a system change. If you do a popular vote with the options:

- clinton
- trump
- be assimilated by the borg

the latter would probably get enough votes to leave neither candidate with an aboslute majority. I suppose you could come up with independent politicians that have slightly better plans than assimilation, but it's not even required
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