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Old 12-22-2015, 07:09 PM #193
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
And you consider Trump to be an example of a leader who shows character?

Or any of the republican, and almost all democratic candidates?

That video is a perfect example of the problem that the US faces. It's divisive, clearly putting people on an US vs THEM footing, but guess what? People can be moral without religion. Without fathers. They can also concern themselves with more than just one issue at a time, including a self awareness of personal flaws, and an awareness of greater social issues.
Yes most can, but why don't they? or is it just just me basing on what I see and hear in my neck of the woods?


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Old 12-22-2015, 07:46 PM #194
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Yes most can, but why don't they? or is it just just me basing on what I see and hear in my neck of the woods?
Yes, I do think it is confirmation bias.

This whole show, every four years, or democrats vs republicans is just that. A show.

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Old 12-22-2015, 09:19 PM #195
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

We should change the rules. Only 8 years per family.
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Old 12-22-2015, 09:41 PM #196
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Well, here's the problem. We have no term limits in congress at all. Or for many appointed positions either.

So we end up with the same senators and congressmen, and committee chairs for decades, and of course they fall prey to corruption from lobbyists.

But what happens if you impose strict term limits. Say a MAXIMUM of two, four year terms, for ALL elected officials with no ability to return to the same position. (Familiar right?)

The problem that remains, is how do you prevent people from going into a government post, and just selling out faster?

The answer isn't just term limits. It's also the use of a popular vote, eliminating things like gerrymandering, and the electoral college.

It's also eliminating "politician" from being a standalone career.

Of course none of this is possible, because it runs directly to the interests of the politicians currently in charge, and their owners.
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:21 PM #197
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Old 12-23-2015, 05:03 PM #198
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Number of attacks stopped by TSA to date: 0.

That's with well over a decade of "work".
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:39 PM #199
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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The real number of illegal immigrants is probably closer to 20-30 million. 11 million has been the number given for the last 20 years and flow didn't stop 20 years ago. I am only talking about illegal immigrants. These people are less well educated, more dependent on social services, burden the school systems with multi-lingual needs and are a drain on our health care system. The investment should be first applied to our own citizens. This is where the return will be greater.



Oh, yes they do. Illegal immigrants are enrolled in our public schools and show up in our emergency rooms regularly. The fact that the hospital does not bill Medicaid means that they don't get paid at all. They are not turned away and they are a huge proportion of all the patients cared for.

Legal immigration and illegal immigration are vastly different situations and your link does not specify which. Someone who makes the effort to comply with our immigration laws and is therefor easy for us to thoroughly vet is a motivated individual and likely to both assimilate and contribute. Illegals are already non-compliant the second they step across the border. They are an unknown and will undoubtedly include "hard working folk", but along with these will also be gang members, violent criminals and hostile actors with ties to terrorism. Now, we are expected to separate these individuals with limited information according to their schedules and with few resources. And, while doing this, assholes are calling us racists. This is neither reasonable nor fair.
Trump considers himself a business man, but the idea of spending hundreds of billions on deporting all undocumented people is a poor business idea. It will also have a negative impact on our economy; over 11 million people no longer pumping money into our economy. I'm sorry, but it would be a catastrophic business decision.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for deporting criminals.
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Old 12-23-2015, 10:23 PM #200
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Trump considers himself a business man, but the idea of spending hundreds of billions on deporting all undocumented people is a poor business idea. It will also have a negative impact on our economy; over 11 million people no longer pumping money into our economy. I'm sorry, but it would be a catastrophic business decision.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for deporting criminals.
Let's start with the correct terminology. Undocumented is a deflection. Illegal immigrants some of whom are documented and told to show up at a hearing simply don't and this is the vast majority. Documentation means there are papers, not that these people have permission to enter the country, Whether they have documentation or not, it is wrong to jump ahead of legal immigrants, many of whom have spent years in the process of lawfully entering the country. It undermines the legal immigration system.

Some of the 9/11 terrorists overstayed their student visas. They were documented, but illegal. What about the cost of having to find, among the "11 million", the terrorists. No one doubts they are there, but identifying them means that resources are spread thin or have to be increased to provide the additional scrutiny.

The number is way, way over 11 million. This is the same number that has been touted for 20 years, without an update and the flow has continued.

They pump money in, but they also pump money out. Some money is sent directly back to Mexico. More is spent on the social welfare programs that immigrants utilize more heavily than citizens even many years after entering the country. The claim is that they can't access the welfare and EBT systems because they are illegal. But, if they lie (can happen) the system will not exclude them.

Then, there are the costs for healthcare that are a huge drain on American resources. These people are not insured and represent a substantial fraction of ER admissions.

Then there is schooling. Illegal immigrants are in our schools at a cost of many thousands/student/year. In some districts near the southern border these students represent a majority percentage.

Then there is the much higher incarceration rate of illegal immigrants compared to citizens. This costs money as does the crime that they committed, not to mention the rape, murder, assault...

Not to mince words, but coming into this country illegally is a crime. They are all criminals, if only for this act.


Being a business man means providing goods or services that are valued enough that the costumer is willing to pay for them. The American public wants their borders enforced and wants the effects of the last few administrations, lax border enforcement, reversed. This is not some crazy idea that just occurred to a bunch of Yanks. Most countries have much stricter border enforcement than we have had for the last 30 years. Look at Mexico's own border policies. They are much stricter than ours. The immigration crises in Europe is leading to a resurgence in nationalism. Greece was in trouble. Now they're toast. Trump is right.
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Old 12-24-2015, 05:23 PM #201
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA




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Old 12-24-2015, 05:43 PM #202
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Bad analogy.
Heh, I guess some people always need a boogeyman to be afraid of, and there will always be some scum to exploit that fear. Jews for the nazis, commies and ruskies for americans after that (and vice-versa) and now... I guess anyone Muslim for the republicans.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:05 PM #203
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I don't hate a rattle snake for what it is, it's doing what it think's it's supposed to, but that does not mean I should sleep with it to prove I don't hate it, and even if I train it to eat mice from my hand while I pet it, I still won't hand it to a child to pet, it simply can't be trusted not to revert to what is simply is.

Jihad is part of the Muslim doctrine, at it's core it is a rattle snake.

Sleeping snakes among the sheep seeing they are greatly outnumbered may continue to sleep, but as their numbers grow and a few start to cry out, awake my brethren for we are snakes and we must devour the lamb.
Even the snakes who don't hunger will often follow their own out of fear, fear of reprisal from standing against their own or for what their kind is doing to the sheep they have co existed with.

I hate that this is the way it works, but it is, would Muslims allow Christians among them? Not unless they convert to Muslims, so then should not immigrant Muslims who wish to denounce Jihad not convert to Christians?

I don't know, but I don't want to sleep with snakes, I don't think I could sleep very well.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:10 PM #204
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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..Jihad is part of the Muslim doctrine, at it's core it is a rattle snake.
I'm thinking that's why there are such a high percentage of radicals within the belief system who are willing to ACT against others. Why is it we are so willing to do terrible things to one another due to religious dogma? Any excuse to let your destructive nature prevail? I think so, there are some among us who only need an excuse.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:32 PM #205
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Oh yes, just look at any protest against police brutality by African Americans, there are always some violent thieves who take advantage of the opportunity to loot and pillage while others only want their voice to be heard about a legitimate problem.

I'm sure those same bad apples exist among Muslims as well.
However there is a problem with one aspect of their fundamental teachings and that is Jihad, American Muslims should form sects that denounce Jihad and make it part of their title, just like Christianity had roots in paganism it evolved and became less violent, the good Muslims need a modified title and it should be at the core of their teachings that they are different/evolved and denounce Jihad in it's entirety.

The problem is, until the time of a generation or two has passed where they have taught their young the new way it's still a part of their heritage and any troubled person can fall upon it, some genetic teachings are within our minds, why do we jump when walking by the train tracks and we see a broken fan belt? Because it looks like a snake, and that is in our sub conscious from birth, it's in the bios.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:39 PM #206
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

There is also what I will call a culture of victim too, many will always see themselves as victims and derive justification for their views or acts against others from it. Much juice to suckle from with such thinking, each of such cultures, which they have become, providing it to one another.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:50 PM #207
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Yes and there is a balance to be found somewhere in there, or outside of it all.

I don't want to hurt anyone, but I do want to destroy a nest of snakes under my house that could harm my family, if it's fear of what the snakes may do to my family then I choose to be certain that I only have to deal with the vision of dead snakes and not of dead family.

If the snakes would listen to what I say I would gladly build them a snake house out in the yard and co exist.

It's a complex problem at this point as we have a Muslim population living in America, so we must co exist, and they must be ever vigilant even more so than us in policing their own bad apples.

The old saying there are no innocent people in war has some wisdom in it, there are people who are powerless against their tyrant government, but somewhere along the lines they could have stood together and stopped it before foreign bombs were falling on their homes.

We have a responsibility to our children and our children's children to police our bad apples, not elect the bitch.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:57 PM #208
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

That is a very kind word for what she is, sir.
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