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Old 10-07-2016, 07:32 AM #1937
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Just saw that a bill that Mike Pence signed into law to try to limit a woman's right to have an abortion by making facilities that do them pay to have the blood and what little tissue may remain be cremated or buried in accordance with state law for a deceased person. This, of course would have made it very difficult for women in Indiana to receive a safe, legal abortion as the additional costs would be prohibitive. Fortunately for women in Indiana, the federal court struck it down just one day before it was to be enacted. I know there are few women here, but I am glad for women's rights that this shallow attempt to yet again try to get around the law of the land. It is because of Judges appointed by Democratic presidents that this was not allowed to happen. So, even if you don't think a Democratic president will follow through with all she claims, there is always THIS!


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Old 10-07-2016, 07:57 AM #1938
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Abortion will always be legal, that case has already been decided.

Better early abortion methods and early detection will solve the partial birth problem, and as we see medical cost go up as well as the welfare burden, people will become much more accepting of early detection and elimination when it will be medically less traumatic for the mother and virtually unidentifiable as any more than flushing a period discharge.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:01 AM #1939
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
Just saw that a bill that Mike Pence signed into law to try to limit a woman's right to have an abortion by making facilities that do them pay to have the blood and what little tissue may remain be cremated or buried in accordance with state law for a deceased person. This, of course would have made it very difficult for women in Indiana to receive a safe, legal abortion as the additional costs would be prohibitive. Fortunately for women in Indiana, the federal court struck it down just one day before it was to be enacted. I know there are few women here, but I am glad for women's rights that this shallow attempt to yet again try to get around the law of the land. It is because of Judges appointed by Democratic presidents that this was not allowed to happen. So, even if you don't think a Democratic president will follow through with all she claims, there is always THIS!
The entire abortion issue from both sides is a farce.

9 out of 10 couples looking to adopt are denied.

Why is it any harder for that 9 out of 10 to adopt than it is for any fertile couple to have kids?

Newborns are the highest demand.

If anyone had a lick of sense on this issue then "abortion providers" would be talking directly with child placement agencies.

As soon as a woman decided she didn't want the baby then a child placement agency would be notified based on the "reluctant" mothers due date.

I see no reason that the same day the "fetus donor" left the hospital that an infertile couple shouldn't leave with a "baby" of their own.

In short, abortion is a disgusting, vile, revolting waste of a priceless resource to say the very least.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:12 AM #1940
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Originally Posted by AaronT View Post
The entire abortion issue from both sides is a farce.

9 out of 10 couples looking to adopt are denied.

Why is it any harder for that 9 out of 10 to adopt than it is for any fertile couple to have kids?

Newborns are the highest demand.

If anyone had a lick of sense on this issue then "abortion providers" would be talking directly with child placement agencies.

As soon as a woman decided she didn't want the baby then a child placement agency would be notified based on the "reluctant" mothers due date.

I see no reason that the same day the "fetus donor" left the hospital that an infertile couple shouldn't leave with a "baby" of their own.

In short, abortion is a disgusting, vile, revolting waste of a priceless resource to say the very least.
This kind of attack on women from a man is exactly why we need Federal Judges that will keep this opinion to himself. The fact that he would force a woman to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term is why women need this protection. There was a Republican that even said that women who are raped can't get pregnant because their bodies reject the the ovum from attaching to the uterus. What absolute nonsense! Leave it to a Republican man to tell women what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

Edit: There is no such thing as a partial birth abortion. It is a made up term by anti-choice people who want to restrict abortions. Many late term medical abortions are done because of the risk to the mother's life or health, or because the fetus isn't viable. That means an acephalic fetus, or in lay terms, one without a brain, must be carried to term even though there is zero chance it will survive. These late term abortions account for less than 1% of all medical abortions.
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Old 10-07-2016, 08:22 AM #1941
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I'm a Republican and I say it's the woman's choice, many Republicans feel the same way, people just don't want to see birthed babies killed.

There was a study on CNN the other day, both Republicans and Democrats dislike partial birth abortion, but otherwise are much more accepting, when caught early it's not much more than a few divisions of cells.

We have to put freedom first, and that has to be for everyone, it's the woman who carries the baby who has the right to chose while it's still part of her body and a major life decision, and that's not going to change, it was decided 40 years ago and the majority is only truly upset about partial birth abortions.

------------------------------

PRINCETON, NJ -- Forty years after the Supreme Court issued its opinion in Roe v. Wade, significantly more Americans want the landmark abortion decision kept in place rather than overturned, 53% to 29%. Another 18% have no opinion, the highest level of uncertainty Gallup has recorded on this question in trends dating to 1989.





40 YEARS IT'S BEEN DECIDED, IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE

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Old 10-07-2016, 09:03 AM #1942
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronT View Post
The entire abortion issue from both sides is a farce.

9 out of 10 couples looking to adopt are denied.

Why is it any harder for that 9 out of 10 to adopt than it is for any fertile couple to have kids?

Newborns are the highest demand.

If anyone had a lick of sense on this issue then "abortion providers" would be talking directly with child placement agencies.

As soon as a woman decided she didn't want the baby then a child placement agency would be notified based on the "reluctant" mothers due date.

I see no reason that the same day the "fetus donor" left the hospital that an infertile couple shouldn't leave with a "baby" of their own.

In short, abortion is a disgusting, vile, revolting waste of a priceless resource to say the very least.
In the United States, bodily autonomy is so highly valued that - unless you specifically sign up as an organ donor - your body will not be modified to save the life of another. So if you wreck your car and you're not an organ donor, the state will let someone needing a heart die instead of opening up your corpse to give someone a heart.

In the same vein of thought, Obama can't knock on your front door and tell you "hey, I need you to donate a kidney to someone to save their life." Just like how your corpse cannot be modified to save someone's life, the government similarly cannot compel you to save a life by making a material modification to your body.

Now, let's talk about rape babies. Don't fixate on the imaginary harlot who uses abortion instead of birth control. And, for the sake of argument, we'll say that life begins at conception.

When a woman is pregnant with a child conceived through rape, a life that she had no choice in creating hangs in the balance. An abortion ban says that Obama SHOULD be able to knock on your door and say, "no, actually, you have to make a material modification to your body to save a life," whether it's carrying a pregnancy to term, donating an organ, or giving blood. Conditionally allowing abortion (such as in cases of rape or incest) sets the dangerous precedent in which a government official decides if the rape of your wife, sister, or daughter was legitimate before she can get access to an abortion or emergency contraception like plan B (considered "abortion" in some states).

Carrying a pregnancy to term causes significant changes to the human body. An abortion ban allows women less bodily autonomy than a literally a corpse.

Trevor
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Old 10-07-2016, 05:11 PM #1943
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I can't believe this thread has turned into an abortion debate. I'm not totally against abortion but feel that there is a responsibility beyond a point. If it has a heart beat you waited too long. As a reproducing individual I feel there is a responsibility to handle a situation within a reasonable time frame. Beyond that time frame adoption is an option. If there is a medical reason for abortion, so be it. Beyond that quit being selfish and provide the child to someone who wants it. I don't feel this should have to be mandated or demanded by a government power. I don't feel like there should be any laws for or against it. I don't think we need clinics on every street corner either though. A hospital is an adequate location to have this performed. The reasonable time frame option should be readily available to everyone on the street corners. If you fail to meet your obligation as a decent human being you need to visit a hospital to have a resolution reached either by birthing it or the unfortunate task of disposing of it. There are plenty of people who want the child. I do feel if you obtain an abortion that it would not be unreasonable to get a more effective form of birth control. Again not forced but maybe at a highly discounted rate. As a taxpayer I would rather pay for having someone Sterilized than to pay for the welfare of the numerous future unwanted children. Let me be very clear - I do not expect nor want the government if our medical care in any direct way. I want early options readily available and if another option is available options to avoid a repeat encounter.
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Old 10-08-2016, 05:45 AM #1944
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

This just keeps getting better and better. The Republicans sure know how to nominate a classy guy.
Trump on Hot Mic: 'When You're a Star ... You Can Do Anything' to Women - NBC News
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Old 10-08-2016, 05:56 AM #1945
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

E-mails don't need to be classified to be a problem.


If the DOJ upheld the law Hillary would be in jail.

Clintons Return White House Furniture - ABC News

After they were criticized for taking $190,000 worth of china, flatware, rugs, televisions, sofas and other gifts with them when they left, the Clintons announced last week that they would pay for $86,000 worth of gifts, or nearly half the amount.

Their latest decision to send back $28,000 in gifts brings to $114,000 the value of items the Clintons have either decided to pay for or return.



Since we are so worried about Trumps "Hot Mike" how about some nice Hillary quotes.
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Old 10-08-2016, 06:37 AM #1946
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

AaronT, these are crap you got off the Trump website. Trump is actually speaking and you can hear the words from his own mouth. Anyone can accuse someone of saying something, it's quite another thing to hear it for yourself. Yeah, Trump's a class act. Just ask him and he'll tell you.

Edit: on legal abortions, a heart beat is a disturbing cutoff point as it occurs 6 weeks after conception. Not everyone would know she is pregnant at just six weeks. That makes it a false cutoff point. It is completely arbitrary. Why not make it a viablity issue? That would make more sense than a heart beat. It's only a heat beat because that happens so soon after conception. Actually, I believe it isn't the government's business at all.
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Old 10-08-2016, 06:39 AM #1947
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Hillary Clinton Refuses Apologize Laughing Rape Victim Child | The Daily Caller

Hillary Clinton Refuses To Apologize For Laughing About 12-Year-Old Rape Victim She Maligned In Court





You can hear Hillary, laughing on tape, about tearing apart a 12 year old rape victim...
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Old 10-08-2016, 07:06 AM #1948
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

That's a damn campaign poster. It even has a copyright on it. Anyone can put these out, as Trump supporters have. These are absolute fictions. Now for the real thing.

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Old 10-08-2016, 07:33 AM #1949
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Old 10-09-2016, 01:10 AM #1950
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
Why not make it a viablity issue? That would make more sense than a heart beat. It's only a heat beat because that happens so soon after conception. Actually, I believe it isn't the government's business at all.
That is actually a sensible idea, and what is used in some european countries.

I guess the reasoning is that abortion can be carried out as long as the fetus as no chance of survival if removed (for example by c section) at that moment. A realistic value for this is 24 weeks, with some safety margin abortion is legal up to 20 to 22 weeks of pregnancy.

I think it becomes the government business once a child is viable, something like aborting a child that could be delivered right now and survive would be murder, similarly to killing a child immediately after a live birth.

The latter would be unthinkable, and with good prenatal screening is not required any longer since very severe defects that would allow survival (by a long shot) but allow no quality of life are detected way earlier.
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Old 10-09-2016, 02:34 AM #1951
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Our crooked government wants their hands into everything, including every aspect of our daily lives. New York banning large soda's, that still blows my mind that they would even try something so domineering.

We are wage slaves and so many new laws get written all the time that it's just about at the point where everything is illegal somehow if they want it to be.

Except for our political elite, they are above it all and they live quite well with their servants and limos, everything is brought in on a silver platter and they all smile and shake hands like old friends while we fight like dogs over which thief we think will save us.

They pit rich against poor, black against white, young against old, man against woman.....ENOUGH.


-----------------------------------------------------EDIT--------------------------------------------


Here's something I bet we will see, yes abortion is legal and always will be, but once we have single payer government healthcare they will refuse to do late term, rather they will charge special administrative fees for adoptive parents who want the baby and insist the mother carry the baby.

What is late term? It depends on how many people want to adopt, it will be all about the money, our rights won't mean jack $hip, it will be decided based on a list of factors if and when a woman in her 2nd trimester can get an abortion, for her own good and what ever else sounds good, but it will change with demand and their ability to levy fees.

We will lose all the way around, we will become property of our cradle to grave system, and we will do what we are told under the threat of force as always.

I bet we see it just like that.
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Old 10-09-2016, 02:49 AM #1952
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benm View Post
That is actually a sensible idea, and what is used in some european countries.

I guess the reasoning is that abortion can be carried out as long as the fetus as no chance of survival if removed (for example by c section) at that moment. A realistic value for this is 24 weeks, with some safety margin abortion is legal up to 20 to 22 weeks of pregnancy.

I think it becomes the government business once a child is viable, something like aborting a child that could be delivered right now and survive would be murder, similarly to killing a child immediately after a live birth.

The latter would be unthinkable, and with good prenatal screening is not required any longer since very severe defects that would allow survival (by a long shot) but allow no quality of life are detected way earlier.
In most states that haven't tried to limit medical abortion rights, that is exactly how it is done here. There are somethings you cannot screen for, and viability or the health of the mother take precedence. An acephalic fetus might not be detected in that 22 week window, but as it has no chance of survival, most states that don't limit the right, allow it in these cases, as well as cases where the mother's life or health is at risk. An example of this would be a treatable cancer that would surely cause the fetus to abort. It happens here and women should have the right to decide whether to abort and live or not.
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