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Old 10-03-2016, 03:17 AM #1889
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

The Washington Post Today

TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN REELS AFTER DISCLOSURE OF 1995 TAX RETURNS

A New York Times report late Saturday showed how Donald Trump used byzantine tax laws to cancel out income taxes after his real estate and casino empire nearly collapsed in the early 1990s, and the Times calculated that the resulting deductions may have allowed him to avoid paying any federal income tax for 18 years. The revelation about Trump's taxes capped perhaps the most difficult week in his general election campaign-from his shaky debate performance and drop in the polls, to his feud with a former Latina beauty queen over her weight gain and erratic 3 A.M. tweets Friday, to his unfounded speech Saturday night that Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton, may have cheated on her husband.
"What we are seeing is somebody who's blowing himself apart in real time", said Peter Wehner, a strategist and scholar who served in the administrations of the last three Republican presidents. "it's a pretty extraordinary thing to see. It's a political death wish, as if at some deep level he doesn't want to be president. It's gnawing on him that he could become what he has contempt for, and that is a loser." Harry M. Reid (D.-Nev.) who sparred with Trump over his taxes and business records said today, "Trump is a billion-dollar loser who won't release his taxes because they'll expose him as a spoiled rich brat who lost the millions that he inherited from his father. Trump is a racist, incompetent failure who managed to lose a billion dollars in a boom year."
His 1995 tax return showed he lost $916 million to offset $50 million a year for as many as 18 years. Central to Trump's candidacy has been the idea of him as a successful businessman. Political analysts said the revelation that he declared nearly a billion dollar loss when his real estate company almost collapsed threatens to undercut his credibilty in business. People can look at this evidence and now question his business acumen. Also, it is an example of Trump benefiting personally from a system he has railed against.
Rudy Giuliani and Chris Christie fanned out across the political talk shows to defend Trump, but they did not dispute the findings of the New York Times, nor did Trump's campaign. Bernie Sanders on CNN today said that this is "exactly why so many millions of Americans are frustrated, they're angry, they're disgusted. You've got the middle class people working longer hours for lower wages. They pay their taxes, they support their schools, they support their infrastructure, they support the military. Trump goes around and says: 'Hey, I'm worth billions! I'm a successful businessman! And I don't pay any taxes! But you-you make 15 bucks a hour-you pay the taxes, not me."
Kevin Madden, a GOP strategist who helped guide Mitt Romney through his own political problems related to tax returns, said of Trump, "The looming threat of the tax returns issue has always been that Trump's refusal to disclose makes it look like he has something to hide and that, ultimately, any disclosure could blow a hole in his appeal to the average taxpayer. Well, the threat has now become a reality."


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Old 10-03-2016, 04:25 AM #1890
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

If your going to accuse people of taking advantage of the law, make sure your not doing the same thing.

More fake Trumped Up outrage from the Clintoon camp.

WOW! Hypocrite Hillary Clinton Used SAME TAX AVOIDANCE LAW as Trump to Save Money on Taxes | The Unofficial Megyn Kelly

Also Time who broke this story about Trump also used the same tax law to save money.

Here is more on Trumps Taxes that Time and Hillary won't report.





Peter J Reilly , CONTRIBUTOR
I focus on the tax issues of individuals, businesses & more

Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.
TWEET THIS
what Trump’s former accountant was thinking.
tax analysis that the Times does from there is a little confused.
The New York Times has come on some interesting fragments of Donald Trump’s tax records. Janet Novack has already posted on the article, if you want a summary. I’ve got some nits to pick with how the New York Times analyzed the situation, but I will start off with wondering what Trump’s former accountant was thinking.

An Over-talkative Preparer

I’ve really got to give the New York Times credit for hunting down Jack Mitnick, Trump’s accountant, who is mentioned in Art of The Deal, with his name misspelled.

Jack Mitnik, my accountant, calls to discuss the tax implications of a deal we are doing. I ask him how bad he thinks the new federal tax law is going for real estate, since it eliminates a lot of current real estate write-offs.

I tried to find Mitnick , but dammit Jim, I’m a tax blogger not an investigative reporter. The Times managed to hunt Mitnick down and even got him to talk. They noted that he is 80 years old semi-retired, a lawyer and CPA and living in Florida. My inner investigative reporter could not help but note that Mitnick does not seem to have a Florida CPA license, unlike me. Florida expects its CPAs to take a substantial portion of their continuing professional education in accounting rather than tax topics, which is beyond tedious, so I’ll probably let mine go before I am 80.

Jack Mitnick’s New York license - 019266 – is inactive, making Mitnick, in my mind a former CPA and his garrulous response to the New York Times confirms that.

Mr. Mitnick, 80, now semiretired and living in Florida, said that while he no longer had access to Mr. Trump’s original returns, the documents appeared to be authentic copies of portions of Mr. Trump’s 1995 tax returns. Mr. Mitnick said the signature on the tax preparer line of the New Jersey tax form was his, and he readily explained an obvious anomaly in the way especially large numbers appeared on the New York tax document.

In the extremely unlikely event the New York Times ever gets its hands on a return of interest that appears to have my signature, here is what they get – How can somebody so stupid be working for the New York Times? Either I didn’t prepare that return, which means I have nothing to say or I did prepare that return in which case I have even less to say. – Of course, we can’t rule out that Mitnick had Trump’s permission to say what he said to the Times. Regardless, I kind of envy Mitnick. I think he has likely achieved one of my life goals – Qualifying to have my obituary in the New York Times.

A Muddled Explanation

The meat of the New York Times story is that the state tax returns from 1995 that the Times received show that Trump’s federal adjusted gross income for 1995 was big time negative ( -$915,729,293). The tax analysis that the Times does from there is a little confused.

But the most important revelation from the 1995 tax documents is just how much Mr. Trump may have benefited from a tax provision that is particularly prized by America’s dynastic families, which, like the Trumps, hold their wealth inside byzantine networks of partnerships, limited liability companies and S corporations.

The provision, known as net operating loss, or N.O.L., allows a dizzying array of deductions, business expenses, real estate depreciation, losses from the sale of business assets and even operating losses to flow from the balance sheets of those partnerships, limited liability companies and S corporations onto the personal tax returns of men like Mr. Trump. In turn, those losses can be used to cancel out an equivalent amount of taxable income from, say, book royalties or branding deals.

Better still, if the losses are big enough, they can cancel out taxable income earned in other years.

They are confounding flow through of losses from partnerships and S corporations with the Net Operating Loss. A Net Operating Loss could be created by flow through losses or it could be created by direct losses on a return. What makes an NOL is that on net, there are more losses than income allowing the excess to be carried forward or back. There is something else though. The unevenness in income is not something to be envied. When individuals have net operating losses, they tend to lose much of the benefit of their itemized deductions.

Leverage Works Both Ways

Nobody thinks that Trump started with $916 million which he expended on deductible items to create a loss. He did it with other people’s money – debt. The thing about debt is that you might have to earn money to pay it back in which case you have taxable income without cash flow. Those of us who lived through that era remember well the pain of clients dealing with the burned out tax shelters that had gone through the dreaded cross over. There were three ways out of a burned out tax shelter. One was this complex maneuver with grantor trusts that did not actually work. The other two which did work were to give it to your wife and divorce her or die.

Of course, Trump likely did not actually earn all the money to pay back his debts. He may have gotten out of them. If he did there is another problem. Cancellation of debt income. To grossly oversimplify, if on January 1, 1996 Trump got out from $916 million in debt either by selling property or having the underlying entities go through some sort of bankruptcy workout, he would have either gain in excess of cash in the amount of $916 million or $916 million in cancellation of debt income.

Again to stay on the surface there are circumstances under which cancellation of debt income is excluded from taxable income. There is a price though. You have to reduce your favorable tax attributes, with Net Operating Losses first on the list, although there is an election to apply the reduction to depreciable basis, which allows the NOL to be preserved and the can further kicked down the road.

Regardless, the implication on the Times article that Trump would be able to sit back and have no federal tax for the next 15 years is way off and there is something else worth mentioning. He may have had to pay federal income tax even in 1995.

The Dreaded AMT

How could Trump with $916 million in negative adjusted gross income have a federal tax liability in 1995? The Alternative Minimum Tax is a parallel tax system that is the bane of the existence of people like Trump. It creates a much broader base on which tax is applied at a somewhat lower rate – maximum of 28%. The AMT allows for a net operating loss deduction (there will be separate AMTNOL that is likely lower than the regular NOL), but it is limited to 90% of alternative minimum taxable income.

Now if you look at the page from Trump’s New York return in the Times article, you will see that he had negative federal AGI of over $6 million even without the “Other Income” of $-909,459,915 which made Mitnick’s software burp. You will also note that New York adds over $43 million and subtracts over $41 million. Those are likely mostly depreciation adjustments, which New York is much less generous with than the federal government. AMT adjustments are not identical to New York adjustments. Still there are enough big numbers floating around there to create the possibility that Trump’s AMTI for the year was positive. If it was, there is another wrinkle. The AMTNOL is allowed only to the extent of 90% of AMTI. So it is possible that the feds got something from “The Donald” even in 1995.

In order to beat the AMT every year after that, Trump would have had to keep running harder and harder to stay in the same place. He might have been able to do it, but I would rate the chance of him having paid nothing in federal income tax in the last two decades as pretty low.

He Did Pay Some Income Tax In 1995

It is worth noting that New Jersey managed to hit him for almost $100,000 in 1995. Under New Jersey rules his total income was $19,558,089 of which $1,468,267 was attributable to New Jersey. Essentially New Jersey only wants to be your partner when you are making money. Other states that would likely have dinged the Donald if he had had operations there are Pennsylvania and Massachusetts. And then there is New Hampshire. Don’t get me started.



Leave it to Liberals who are doing the very same things as Trump point and say "Look, look, at what he is doing!"

Like all of you don't save every single penny you can on your taxes, and if you thought you could get away without paying any taxes then you wouldn't.



We should be asking ourselves, with over 30 years in the political eye, why has Hillary (who knows this law, as she claimed taxes on it) hasn't closed this terrible tax loophole or mentioned how it needed to be changed at any time?
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Old 10-03-2016, 04:31 AM #1891
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I have zero love for Trump but again would anyone not be stupid to pay more than they owe to the IRS? Also sounds like the call here is to get rid of deferred tax assets or liabilities like it is only something the rich use. Ever contribute to a 401K? Do you want a tax liability every year you have gains and if it loses you don't get to offset that loss to future gains? This is all just nonsense and if the tax code does not seem fair it is not the person that is following its fault but the politicians that have been building this monstrosity on both sides of the aisle. How much over what Clinton owed in taxes did she pay? They both suck but not for not being stupid and paying more money than they owe in tax.
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Old 10-03-2016, 05:33 AM #1892
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

This is not the loophole Trump used. It was for real estate losses only. This is not the deferred tax for 401Ks. It is not a regular loss that one takes as an adjusted gross income loss one takes during a specific year. And even though Trump has been railing against loopholes like these he did, himself, take this specific loss and was able to spread it across 18 years. It is only for real estate losses. I wasn't able to print the entire article, but look at it yourself. And, though he has used these loopholes that ONLY the rich can take, he has no plan to eliminate it. And linking this to Trump's official campaign site doesn't answer this question at all. They are trying to say it is the same tax loophole when, in fact, it is not.

Edit: AaronT, what a big load of nonsensical opinion. It uses many words to basically say nothing at all. Trump was in a position to take a huge loophole from taxes and spread it over 18 years. Nobody has yet made a rational point that this is incorrect, nor has Trump, his campaign, or anyone standing in for him said that what the New York Times wrote is in any way not correct. Just a bunch of nonsensical opinions like the five minutes I'll never get back after reading what you posted.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:22 AM #1893
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Yea it is called deferment. It is not only the rich can use and is not limited to one form of tax asset or liability I just used 401K as a simple example. There was as loss and until the gains are more than the loss there is no liability and depending on the type of assets and rules for deferment of that asset the time you can keep rolling it over can be longer or shorter.

How about all those sucker middle class people that got sold on house flipping to make a living pre 2008 dealt with the massive losses they took on the houses they were invested in pretty much going bankrupt. Should they not be able to defer their real estate losses?

This can apply to investments of many kinds like real estate. Loss of your homes value can be used and deferred against tax liability now and future years, business that loose money can defer losses. Some investment classes will provide longer periods of deferment for losses.

Either way you think clinton would change it even with all here clammering. She is part of the elite that made these rules.

We need a new party that has not been corrupted by 200 years of greed and power.
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Old 10-03-2016, 06:40 AM #1894
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

That's a wonderful point, except I think both of us can remember what third party candidates actually do. They never win, but can change the outcome of elections by voting for them, or, just staying home. I noticed you have a problem with the 16th amendment. You know, before it was ratified by the states in 1913, income tax had been around for over 55 years. BTW, for those who don't know what the 16th amendment is about, it codifies into law the ability for the federal government to collect income taxes. You were right, though, the only amendment to ever be overturned was the 18th which was prohibition. There is little chance that the 16th will ever be overturned. Clinton can do something else that most of us who are older know, but rarely talk about. That is in the appointment of federal justices. Even though Bill Clinton was far from a left leaning Democrat, he did leave a legacy that will live on long after he left. Judges that will keep Republican state legislatures from enacting laws that disenfranchise minority voters who tend to vote Democrat. They are also the only line of defense against giving big business the ability to continue to discharge their pollution into the commons, as if it has no effect and is still up for debate,not to mention a woman's right to choose whether or not to carry a fetus to viability, and the protections of the 4th and 5th amendments against illegal search and seizure and self incrimination.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:27 AM #1895
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

paul you cry pollution and racism but the EPA still closed the last primary lead smelter in the entire nation, now we import virgin lead from overseas where environmental protections are lax.

Barry has done more to damage race relations than any President in history.

It's all BS, the democratic machine is leading us into socialism where everyone will suffer a lower standard of living, everyone except the wealthy above the law political elite.

Our jobs are going overseas, our raw material is being imported from overseas where environmental damage is much worse, and this article below is just one of many about how Obama has hurt race relations.

Your sales pitch is the same old tired divisionary garbage and it's still wrong.
NO SALE!

Last US Primary Lead Smelter closing due to EPA

Gallup Poll Reveals Obama Has Turned Back Clock On Race Relations | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:47 PM #1896
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
It's all BS, the democratic machine is leading us into socialism..
Red, it could be worse. just imagine a world where Jill stein becomes president...thank God the sanders machine shut down.

I'll never forget this this. One of my most liberal friends whom I respect the most said this to me:
"Jefferson, you don't like Obama because he's too socialist. I don't like Obama because he's not socialist enough.."


Recently she took a vacation to Cuba. I think it was more of a pilgrimage. Ef dash dash Che.
Anyways apologies for derailing the current topic. Thought I would add my 2cents on the thread.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:36 PM #1897
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Trump dealing with the fallout from his tax information being published...

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Old 10-03-2016, 09:48 PM #1898
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
Trump dealing with the fallout from his tax information being published...

Trump has literally been in Romney's 47% lol. The Trumpster fire is burning hotter.

I'm even more concerned by how he seems to be a true conman and has a history of bullying/cheating/screwing people who have worked for him. The one thing he had going for him was being able to claim moral superiority to Clinton, and now he's rapidly losing that.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:05 PM #1899
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Yup, it annoys me quite a bit when people say he is a good businessman. No he is not. He would have been better off with semi conservative investments, and would have hurt a lot less people along the way, and made more money.

Trumps most successful business is trademarking his own name, and selling it. Selling himself. Much as I dislike shillary, Trump would probably sell out to the highest bidder day after he's sworn in. Don't think he'll win the presidency, but I would not be surprised in the least to see him run for office again in the future, and in some states, he would probably win.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:09 PM #1900
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

I have no doubt that plenty of states would elect him as governor or something. His presidential viability is probably toasted though.
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Old 10-04-2016, 06:07 PM #1901
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

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Old 10-05-2016, 12:10 AM #1902
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Is that crap for real? I can't believe she is aggressively targeting kids like McDonald's
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Old 10-05-2016, 02:00 AM #1903
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

No, it's a joke.

The New York Times Today

HOW A SIMPLE TAX RULE LET TRUMP TURN $916 MILLION LOSS INTO A PLUS

Most of what Trump did is already part of the record. What isn't well known is that though Trump was able declare nearly $1 billion as a tax loss, it wasn't his money that was lost. In his ability to file bankruptcy, and in his refusal to pay for work contracted by him and completed, leaving small businesses to accept pennies on the dollar, if they were paid at all, he was able to remove his responsibility to pay this money back while effectively spreading this loss over 18 years to protect all future earnings from any tax liability. What's more, it was legal. While this tax policy has its beginnings in a 1918 tax code to allow businesses to avoid a large tax burden in a year where they had a loss, allowing them to use the loss in the next year to average their profit statements, it has been expanded to cover large businesses beginning in the early 1990s and further expanded to include over 20 years during the early 2000s. Most taxpayers are allowed to use loss in one year to cover gains in the next year, up to $3,000 for capital gains, Trump was able to use other people's money to effectively avoid paying any income tax at all for as long as 18 years. With his refusal to release his tax returns, the whole truth may never be fully known, but he has publicly said that he was "smart" to do this.
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Old 10-05-2016, 04:57 AM #1904
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Default Re: LPF's Presidential Candidate Vote USA

Grand Canyon-Sized Hypocrisy From Hillary and the New York Times | The American Spectator

October 4, 2016, 12:14 am

Clinton guilty of the tax avoiding she charges Trump with; Times paid no 2014 taxes.
Be careful what you wish for goes the old admonition.

The New York Times front-paged a story on three pages (illegally obtained) of Donald Trump’s taxes, suggesting that Trump used the tax code to escape paying taxes. The Clinton campaign (aka central HQ at the Clinton campaign as opposed to its media arm at the Times) jumped in to say this with a Hillary tweet:

Trump “apparently got to avoid paying taxes for nearly two decades — while tens of millions of working families paid theirs.”
Ahhhh. But wait. Now we find out this, courtesy of the financial blog Zero Hedge:

Clinton Campaign Admits Hillary Used Same Tax Avoidance “Scheme” As Trump
Yes, you read that right. By putting up Hillary’s taxes on her website, the Clinton campaign admitted a very interesting fact if one takes a look at page 17 of Hillary’s 2015 tax filing. Reporter Tyler Durden wrote up his scoop this way:

Well this is a little awkward. With the leaked 1995 Trump tax returns ‘scandal’ focused on the billionaire’s yuuge “net operating loss” and how it might have ‘legally’ enabled him to pay no taxes for years, we now discover none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton utilized a $700,000 “loss” to avoid paying some taxes in 2015.
Yes, you read that right. Hillary Clinton cheated, to borrow her own language, “millions of working families” who pay taxes by using precisely the same tax code loophole as Trump to keep from paying a higher tax bill in 2015. Durden continues (bold and underlined print in the original):

While not on the scale of Trump’s business ‘operating loss’, Hillary Clinton — like many ‘wealthy’ individuals is taking advantage of a legal scheme to use historical losses to avoid paying current taxes.

As Bloomberg notes, this federal tax break is among the wealthy’s most used avoidance schemes…

Those 1.1 million folks in the 1 percent, as measured by the TPC, have annual income that averages a little less than $700,000. The top one-tenth of that group, some 110,000 households, average about $3.6 million, according to Howard Gleckman, a senior fellow at the TPC.2

The middle of the pack, some 33 million people, have pretax income ranging from $45,000 to $80,000. The lowest one-fifth of taxpayers, a universe of about 47 million Americans, have income up to about $24,000.

Among the biggest of these givebacks, courtesy of the Internal Revenue Service (well, really Congress), are capital gains and dividends — these are the biggest way the wealthiest benefit.

In the words of Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager, ‘this bombshell report reveals [Hillary Clinton’s] past business failures… and may show just how long [Hillary Clinton] may have avoided paying taxes.’”
So Hillary Clinton — how awkward indeed — has used exactly the same tax rules as Trump is alleged to have used, and used them successfully to avoid paying her federal taxes.

But there’s more in this exploding minefield of a story that the Times has stepped into. Get a load of this from Forbes in January of 2016, hat tip to Breitbart, bold print supplied:

New York Times Hypocrisy On Corporate Taxes Reaches Record High
Forbes contributor Jeffrey Dorfman reveals:

The New York Times just ran an op-ed by their editorial board decrying corporate inversions on the grounds that taking advantage of the tax code is somehow unpatriotic.

The particular case that got the ire of The New York Times was Johnson Controls, the Milwaukee-based auto parts maker, selling itself to Ireland-domiciled Tyco International which will save it at least $150 million annually in U.S. taxes. The Times should be the last organization to criticize others for benefiting from the tax code.…

Apparently, The New York Times believes companies should take no actions in order to lower their tax rates.…

However, I do not need to lecture The New York Times on that topic because it knows that lesson well. After all, the newspaper of record has its headquarters in a building built on land seized by the government under the power of eminent domain from ten different owners, some of whom did not want to sell, implying that the government exercise of power saved the developer money. In addition to that benefit, The New York Times also received $26 million in tax breaks in exchange for keeping jobs in New York City.

More recently, for tax year 2014, The New York Times paid no taxes and got an income tax refund of $3.5 million even though they had a pre-tax profit of $29.9 million in 2014. In other words, their post-tax profit was higher than their pre-tax profit. The explanation in their 2014 annual report is, “The effective tax rate for 2014 was favorably affected by approximately $21.1 million for the reversal of reserves for uncertain tax positions due to the lapse of applicable statutes of limitations.” If you don’t think it took fancy accountants and tax lawyers to make that happen, read the statement again.
So. What do we have here?

What we have are Hillary Clinton and the New York Times both trying to make a big deal out of Trump’s using the existing tax code — quite legally — to lessen his tax bill. Except, alas and anon, we now find out that both Hillary and the Times have done exactly the same thing!

Mama Mia! Grand Canyon-sized hypocrisy from Hillary and the Times. You can’t make this stuff up — even when you expect exactly this kind of wildly hypocritical behavior from both.
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